SerenityNow Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 4 minutes ago, KingTitan said: Again, that just me thinking. If they had to choose between Caleb Williams or Will Levis (I'm not a fan of Williams) but they'd take Levis probably. I literally can't see a QB like Williams working with Vrabel. He'd lose his mind! lol Running around playing off script. That's what makes things with Malik so confusing with this staff. Running around and playing off script is a huge part of his game, and sure you can coach a guy up and tell him not to run but when you have a talent like that why would you? Malik needs to learn how to play from the pocket to be successful I totally get that, but if Vrabel really doesn't want a QB that runs around and makes plays off script that doesn't seem like a very good sign for Malik's future here lol. The new GM plays a big piece in this too. What are their thoughts on Malik? What kind of QB do they envision for us and how does that line up with Vrabel's vision? So many different levels to this thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingTitan Posted December 13, 2022 Author Share Posted December 13, 2022 6 minutes ago, SerenityNow said: That's what makes things with Malik so confusing with this staff. Running around and playing off script is a huge part of his game, and sure you can coach a guy up and tell him not to run but when you have a talent like that why would you? Malik needs to learn how to play from the pocket to be successful I totally get that, but if Vrabel really doesn't want a QB that runs around and makes plays off script that doesn't seem like a very good sign for Malik's future here lol. The new GM plays a big piece in this too. What are their thoughts on Malik? What kind of QB do they envision for us and how does that line up with Vrabel's vision? So many different levels to this thing. The most telling thing with Willis and Vrabel was when he pulled him for running around too much. I get it. But like someone said I can't see this staff developing a QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Hope- Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 it really is absolutely amazing that we just got annihilated in back to back weeks by QBs throwing for 350+ yards on us in modern, explosive offenses and we're going to stay committed to caveman football until the end of time. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deeluxx3 Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 11 minutes ago, KingTitan said: The most telling thing with Willis and Vrabel was when he pulled him for running around too much. I get it. But like someone said I can't see this staff developing a QB. Im not saying this to defend Vrabel/coaches...I have absolutely zero faith in Downing. But trying to be objective here...I dont think Vrabel pulling Willis for running around too much is all that telling, especially in preseason. In any NFL offense, staying on time is paramount. It's not like Andy Reid/Bienemy draw up plays where Mahomes just runs around and makes something happen...that's his innate gift that he gets to use because he KNOWS how to stay on time. At this point in time, Willis does not. Staying on time is probably step 1 to becoming a productive/competent NFL QB, so i think Vrabel is right in stressing that to Malik (in this instance) Again, I don't "love" or even "like" our offense. But we have zero OL, a QB who mostly needs everything around him to be perfect, a 2-down RB, and our only pass catching weapons are rookies (one of which cannot stay healthy) Doesn't the convo kinda start and end there for the time being? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Hope- Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 fwiw, we very clearly did change up the offense for malik when he was in. it was quite noticeable vs KC. more read option obviously but also way less passing over the middle of the field and more sideline shots and fades, which basically mirrors his passing heatmap from college. the middle of the field is where he struggled, and we went away from that, which is good. the problem, of course, was a combination of horrible WRs and todd downing’s atrocious in-game playcalling that completely abandoned the read option when it was working to perfection and totally failed to get malik any more schemed short-air-yardage easy completions after the first drive- which any competent shanahan tree OC can do in their sleep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deeluxx3 Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 23 minutes ago, -Hope- said: fwiw, we very clearly did change up the offense for malik when he was in. it was quite noticeable vs KC. more read option obviously but also way less passing over the middle of the field and more sideline shots and fades, which basically mirrors his passing heatmap from college. the middle of the field is where he struggled, and we went away from that, which is good. the problem, of course, was a combination of horrible WRs and todd downing’s atrocious in-game playcalling that completely abandoned the read option when it was working to perfection and totally failed to get malik any more schemed short-air-yardage easy completions after the first drive- which any competent shanahan tree OC can do in their sleep. yea it's like...nobody had a problem w/ the offense against GB when we had Burks and Downing somehow had a great playcalling game. It's not like this offense "doesnt work" we just have basically zero talent and no OL right now 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingTitan Posted December 13, 2022 Author Share Posted December 13, 2022 12 minutes ago, deeluxx3 said: yea it's like...nobody had a problem w/ the offense against GB when we had Burks and Downing somehow had a great playcalling game. It's not like this offense "doesnt work" we just have basically zero talent and no OL right now Yeah I don't think the offense is the problem. It's the tendencies within the offense. Why run it into 9 man box? Why always run it on 1st down? Why only have Hollister as WR on an obvious run call? The problem with the "run first mindset" is that if you only emphasize the run, you end up with the best blocking WRs in the game or a core of WRs that don't actually play WR the best. I personally don't have a problem with the scheme. I have a problem with who is calling the scheme and the ideals within the scheme. Being built in a way where you can only win if you run the ball. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingTitan Posted December 13, 2022 Author Share Posted December 13, 2022 And if anyone is hoping this off-season we switch to a QB dependent system, where we go 3 wide majority of the time, don't hold your breath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Hope- Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 (edited) 19 minutes ago, KingTitan said: I personally don't have a problem with the scheme. I have a problem with who is calling the scheme and the ideals within the scheme. Being built in a way where you can only win if you run the ball. this is exactly it. compare us with san fran. both run first teams. but with us, everyone knows that if you stop the run, we can't score. well, this season we can't score even when we do run the ball well lmao, but you get the point. even at our most successful, it was: stop the run and you stop the titans. san francisco is not like that, even though they don't have a franchise QB! and it's because they have weapons on the outside and a good, creative playcaller running the show (and a good OL, but up until this year that was more or less true of us as well). i don't need us to suddenly become a spread team, but i need us to operate in the 21st century as far as A. piling up guys on offense who can make plays, and B. finding creative ways to get the ball to them in space. we've been so incapable of or resistant to doing that for years and it's infuriating. Edited December 13, 2022 by -Hope- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deeluxx3 Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 17 minutes ago, -Hope- said: this is exactly it. compare us with san fran. both run first teams. but with us, everyone knows that if you stop the run, we can't score. well, this season we can't score even when we do run the ball well lmao, but you get the point. even at our most successful, it was: stop the run and you stop the titans. san francisco is not like that, even though they don't have a franchise QB! and it's because they have weapons on the outside and a good, creative playcaller running the show (and a good OL, but up until this year that was more or less true of us as well). i don't need us to suddenly become a spread team, but i need us to operate in the 21st century as far as A. piling up guys on offense who can make plays, and B. finding creative ways to get the ball to them in space. we've been so incapable of or resistant to doing that for years and it's infuriating. big part of where JRob messed up 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twotonebluenation Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 33 minutes ago, -Hope- said: this is exactly it. compare us with san fran. both run first teams. but with us, everyone knows that if you stop the run, we can't score. well, this season we can't score even when we do run the ball well lmao, but you get the point. even at our most successful, it was: stop the run and you stop the titans. san francisco is not like that, even though they don't have a franchise QB! and it's because they have weapons on the outside and a good, creative playcaller running the show (and a good OL, but up until this year that was more or less true of us as well). i don't need us to suddenly become a spread team, but i need us to operate in the 21st century as far as A. piling up guys on offense who can make plays, and B. finding creative ways to get the ball to them in space. we've been so incapable of or resistant to doing that for years and it's infuriating. Preach! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerenityNow Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 (edited) I'm not asking for a complete overhaul of our scheme. I don't by any stretch see Vrabel ever moving to a spread base offense, but I would like to see two things out of our offense... 1. An offense as a whole that is a lot more versatile and less transparent. If teams are selling out to stop the run, we have the passing attack that can make teams pay. If they shut down the pass, we can run it down their throats, and switch between the two to have more of a balance and a flow depending on how things are going game to game. 2. A functional passing attack. This is going to take an overhaul at OLine and our WR corp, but I believe it's possible even though Todd is going to make it very difficult lol. As bleak and dire as things are right now. I think bringing in a GM that actually emphasizes bringing in and keeping legitimate talent at the WR position and a GM that knows how to properly evaluate offensive linemen would go a LONG way to getting this team back on track even if we have to go through another season with Downing as OC which I really don't want us to do. Edited December 13, 2022 by SerenityNow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingTitan Posted December 14, 2022 Author Share Posted December 14, 2022 One of the biggest problems with the scheme is that I've been wanting to mature the passing game. Even when things were going well with Arthur Smith, the drop back game still needed work. It looked un-natural. We had to run the ball, use play action and sets that have been successful running the ball to open up space in the passing game. Anyalsts have all said we needed to find a passing game that works with the run game but that can also operate independently from the run game. And when it was mentioned that we'd take someone like Dez over St. Brown, is because they have a type. They want big strong guys, that can work in the run game and pass game. People like Philips and Humphries are anomalies. New GM, needs to take the best player sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deeluxx3 Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 20 minutes ago, KingTitan said: One of the biggest problems with the scheme is that I've been wanting to mature the passing game. Even when things were going well with Arthur Smith, the drop back game still needed work. It looked un-natural. We had to run the ball, use play action and sets that have been successful running the ball to open up space in the passing game. Anyalsts have all said we needed to find a passing game that works with the run game but that can also operate independently from the run game. And when it was mentioned that we'd take someone like Dez over St. Brown, is because they have a type. They want big strong guys, that can work in the run game and pass game. People like Philips and Humphries are anomalies. New GM, needs to take the best player sometimes. Without looking at their info…dez looks like a high school junior physically. Amon looks more solid…at least in pads not trying to be overly critical of all the good he’s done for us … but I do want to see Vrabel (and our offense) with a QB that’s more talented and skilled than Tannehill. Tannehill limits what we can do, too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanRedd Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 Get ready I been telling you guys this day one this man is Jeff fisher 2.0 he stuck in his ways & has an ego but he gets away with his stubbornness due to being a players coach. Players nor coaches will reach their potential because of vrabel holding them back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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