Frankie2Gunz Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 Just now, NYRaider said: You could have Joe Montana, Tom Brady, Russell Wilson, or Patrick Mahomes at QB and they still wouldn't be able to consistently win here as long as our defense is giving up 30+ ppg. 100 percent agree. Is it possible to improve over Carr, sure, and I have never said that he is a flawless QB. The risk vs reward is way too steep if we move on and draft a complete bust.... No way Mayock would take that risk. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverNBlackFan Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 9 minutes ago, bucksavage1 said: Seems like a lot of Raiders fan are happy with average results instead of improving the team at all costs or trying something different. We will continue to be Mediocre middle of the pack team with Carr as QB. The illusion that we are all of sudden gonna become an elite team under him won't happen. Raider fans are still traumatized by the last of the Al Davis years. Scared to take risks. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 21 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said: I think it's more likely that he not only comes back, but continues to improve in 2021 as he gets even more experience in the system and builds chemistry with Edwards and Ruggs. It literally won't matter how well Carr plays or how well our offense does if our defense doesn't make major improvements this offseason. We set our franchise record for most yards in a season and finished 6th all time in scoring offense in franchise history yet still only won 8 games. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksavage1 Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 14 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said: Such a low brow, lazy response. What's you solution if we move on from Carr? Draft a QB? You make it sound so easy and where are we if that QB is a total bum? Im going with the results. In a results based business. Carr has not won enough to warrant another free pass 1) Trade for Watson 2) Draft a QB and start MM as a bridge. Use Carr savings across the team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksavage1 Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 9 minutes ago, SilverNBlackFan said: Raider fans are still traumatized by the last of the Al Davis years. Scared to take risks. 1000% We are literally one of the lowest winning teams in the last 20 years. Part of our fanbase is ok with bringing back a QB who has done nothing but lose in his career. No player on this team should be safe outside of the elite players. Waller, Jacobs, Hudson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksavage1 Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 22 minutes ago, NYRaider said: We will continue to be a mediocre team as long as we have one of the worst defenses in the league. Our defense gave up 30+ in 10 games this season, you realize that Russell Wilson, Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, and Peyton Manning all have under .500 win % in games their opponents scored 30+, right? I'm not saying Carr is without a doubt the answer going forward and I've been as critical of him as anyone on the board. But it doesn't matter who we have at QB, if our defense is giving up 30+ ppg we will not be a winning football team. Every year there is a different excuse why we didnt win under Carr. Defense sucked this year but our QB is not beyond getting replaced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 I would trade anything to get a player like Watson in here as my QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2Gunz Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 (edited) 14 minutes ago, bucksavage1 said: Im going with the results. In a results based business. Carr has not won enough to warrant another free pass 1) Trade for Watson 2) Draft a QB and start MM as a bridge. Use Carr savings across the team Trade what for Watson and who's to say that he would want to come to a dumpster fire organization that hasn't had a winning record in over 20 years? You have confidence in a bum like MM leading this franchise if we draft a bust LOL That's really all I needed to read.... With our roster and MM starting 16 games last year we are a 4 win team... Edited January 12, 2021 by Frankie2Gunz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 11 minutes ago, bucksavage1 said: Every year there is a different excuse why we didnt win under Carr. Defense sucked this year but our QB is not beyond getting replaced. These numbers are from post week 4 but still highlight how hard it is to win when your defense allows 30+ Record when the opposing team scores 30+ points. Mahomes: 4-7 Rodgers: 12-33 Watson: 2-11 Wilson: 7-16 Prescott: 3-8 Jackson: 0-3 Brady: 17-30 Carr: 7-31 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 5 minutes ago, big_palooka said: I would trade anything to get a player like Watson in here as my QB. Watson is like 2-16 in games where his defense has allowed 30+ points, not sure he helps much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 Again, I've been as harsh on Carr as anyone. But the fact remains, we set the franchise record for most yards in a season and had the 5th most points scored in franchise history and still only won 8 games. Look at my other post and the record of elite QB's when their defenses allow 30+ points. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverNBlackFan Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 16 minutes ago, bucksavage1 said: Every year there is a different excuse why we didnt win under Carr. Defense sucked this year but our QB is not beyond getting replaced. "Fix the defense" the year before "Carr needs weapons" the year before "He needs continuity with a OC" the year before "It's Todd Downings fault" or remember "Amari Cooper sucks" now it's "Henry Ruggs is no good" There will always be an excuse, bro Some valid, others not. And that's what you sign up for when you have a good but not great QB, and a guy in Gruden who is terrible at team building. It's purgatory at it's finest. I'm not blaming Carr. He is what he is, I think he would be more successful on a better built team. And we would be better off resetting, imo. But I just think we will spend years chasing the perfect balance for us to win with him and his contract is coming up soon and he will want to be paid. So yeah, let's pay Carr as the third best QB in the division. Lets build our team like the Titans this year. That's about as good as we can hope to be under Carr/Gruden. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 1 minute ago, SilverNBlackFan said: "Fix the defense" the year Record when their opponent scores 30+ Mahomes: 4-7 Rodgers: 12-33 Watson: 2-11 Wilson: 7-16 Prescott: 3-8 Jackson: 0-3 Brady: 17-30 Our defense allowed 30+ 10 times this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 46 minutes ago, NYRaider said: Agreed. It's comparable to Jimmy G in San Francisco or Alex Smith in Kansas City. If we build an elite defense and have the right weapons around him he can definitely win a lot of games for us, but he's not the type of player that can elevate a franchise as he has proven over his 7 year career. But in fairness to him there are very few guys that can elevate a franchise. I see what you're saying but he's definitely better than both those guys. And again, I am not a Carr "stan". If someone has a contingency plan to acquire an elite player, I'm all for it. But I don't see one right now. Nothing wrong with taking a developmental qb with high upside. But 95% of teams need to try to win without an elite player at QB. We should try to do so as well. If we can get an elite player at qb, we should try to. But we would have been in the playoffs this year with even a marginally better defense. I don't see how that's "mediocre". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 34 minutes ago, bucksavage1 said: Im going with the results. In a results based business. Carr has not won enough to warrant another free pass 1) Trade for Watson 2) Draft a QB and start MM as a bridge. Use Carr savings across the team The savings are 10 million. That 10 million isn't doing anything. With this logic, Carr should be the bridge. Also, this is truly an inane take. The results are a team game. Always has been. If Carr played like hot garbage and we won 12 games, wouldn't you still want to upgrade? I know I would. Watson would be great. But would you give up 3+ first rounders and more to get him? How would you fix the defense in the meantime? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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