Week 17 - Rams vs Cardinals

[BStanRamFan]

2 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said:

2 things;

No, that does not apply to throwing a Pick to “SETTLE IN”. It’s amazing you can’t see how absurd that statement is. If he was like 5/8 for 30 total yards in the first 3 drives to start with a couple of screens, quick outs, and a shovel pass and someone was basing him for that, I’d actually be with you in the “settling in” argument. But not with a pick. Just stop with that nonsense

 

That’s not to mention the bill of goods you have all been trying to sell all week that Wolford is actually better than Goff at this point, so to me, according to the touts on this forum, they should be held to the exact same standard

I love watching you all keep trying to have it both ways

A quarterback who has never played a snap in the NFL before certainly needs to settle in vs a 4 year vet. It's absurd to me that you can't see the difference.

I said Goff is a better pure passer. I said he is more Jekyl and Hyde. I said the turnovers that Goff brings to the table and his regression are a problem to me. If they're not for you 👍

I'm not trying to have it both ways. If it were up to me, I'd roll the dice on Wolf going forward. Some people would prefer the vet. I get it. Makes sense. Let's see what McVay does cause it might surprise some people. 

[stl4life07]

When I think of turnovers Im not up in arms with Goff turning the ball over. Why? Because he is throwing the ball a ton. When I think of a QB who throws a ton in an offense where the brilliant offense minded head coach asks him to do everything, I think of Brees. This is his stretch from 2006 to 2016 and how he did when it came to ask to do a ton and as a result the turnovers:

2006 - 554 pass attempts 11 ints 8 fumbles

2007 - 652 pass attempts 18 ints 9 fumbles *went (7-9) missed the playoffs*

2008 - 535 pass attempts 17 ints 6 fumbles *went (8-8) missed the playoffs*

2009 - 514 pass attempts 11 ints 10 fumbles

2010 - 658 pass attempts 22 ints (led the NFL) 9 fumbles

2011 - 657 pass attempts 12 ints 1 fumble

2012 - 670 pass attempts 17 ints 5 fumbles *went (7-9) missed the playoffs*

2013 - 650 pass attempts 12 ints 7 fumbles

2014 - 659 pass attempts 19 ints 7 fumbles *went (7-9) missed the playoffs*

2015 - 627 pass attempts 11 ints 5 fumbles *went (7-9) missed the playoffs*

2016 - 673 pass attempts 15 ints 5 fumbles *went (7-9) missed the playoffs*

 So in 11 seasons Brees averaged 622.6 pass attempts and as a result he averaged 15 ints and 6.5 fumbles. 

Goff last in 2018 to 2020:

2018 - 561 pass attempts 12 ints 12 fumbles

2019 - 626 pass attempts 16 ints 10 fumbles

2020 - 552 pass attempts 13 ints 7 fumbles

So in 3 seasons Goff is averaging 579.6 pass attempts and as a result he is averaging 13 ints and 9.6 fumbles

We think of Brees as a QB who is smart with the ball and extremely accurate. He also had weapons in Colston, Horn, Cooks, Graham, McAllister, Bush, Ingram, and Shockey at some point in those 11 seasons. Yet on average you can pencil him in for 15 ints and almost 7 fumbles per season. Again nothing to kill Brees about because he was ask to do alot. Goff is ask to do alot so Im not bothered by him turning the ball over. Im bothered by those "what were you thinking" type turnovers like the one he had against Seattle. Those cant happen. If Goff is more smart with the ball when it comes to situation then Im ok. Im not going to freak out if I see Goff turn the ball over because again when you are asked to do alot just like Goff is and I just gave you the perfect example of Brees, you are going to turn the ball over. The second the Saints stop asking Brees to do alot and scaled his pass attempts alot down his turnovers went down over the past 3 seasons. 

[JonStark]

2 hours ago, BStanRamFan said:

I'm not trying to have it both ways. If it were up to me, I'd roll the dice on Wolf going forward. 

This is literally trying to have it both ways. When discussing who should be the starting QB in the playoffs right now, you pick the better player. If Wolford's expectations should be lower, he is not the better player. 

[StLunatic88]

2 hours ago, stl4life07 said:

So in 11 seasons Brees averaged 622.6 pass attempts and as a result he averaged 15 ints and 6.5 fumbles. 

He was also 27 (and 5 seasons in) to START this run, but we should make a career judgment by then, a QB will never get better from that point

[rocky_rams]

3 hours ago, stl4life07 said:

When I think of turnovers Im not up in arms with Goff turning the ball over. Why? Because he is throwing the ball a ton. When I think of a QB who throws a ton in an offense where the brilliant offense minded head coach asks him to do everything, I think of Brees. This is his stretch from 2006 to 2016 and how he did when it came to ask to do a ton and as a result the turnovers:

2006 - 554 pass attempts 11 ints 8 fumbles

2007 - 652 pass attempts 18 ints 9 fumbles *went (7-9) missed the playoffs*

2008 - 535 pass attempts 17 ints 6 fumbles *went (8-8) missed the playoffs*

2009 - 514 pass attempts 11 ints 10 fumbles

2010 - 658 pass attempts 22 ints (led the NFL) 9 fumbles

2011 - 657 pass attempts 12 ints 1 fumble

2012 - 670 pass attempts 17 ints 5 fumbles *went (7-9) missed the playoffs*

2013 - 650 pass attempts 12 ints 7 fumbles

2014 - 659 pass attempts 19 ints 7 fumbles *went (7-9) missed the playoffs*

2015 - 627 pass attempts 11 ints 5 fumbles *went (7-9) missed the playoffs*

2016 - 673 pass attempts 15 ints 5 fumbles *went (7-9) missed the playoffs*

 So in 11 seasons Brees averaged 622.6 pass attempts and as a result he averaged 15 ints and 6.5 fumbles. 

Goff last in 2018 to 2020:

2018 - 561 pass attempts 12 ints 12 fumbles

2019 - 626 pass attempts 16 ints 10 fumbles

2020 - 552 pass attempts 13 ints 7 fumbles

So in 3 seasons Goff is averaging 579.6 pass attempts and as a result he is averaging 13 ints and 9.6 fumbles

We think of Brees as a QB who is smart with the ball and extremely accurate. He also had weapons in Colston, Horn, Cooks, Graham, McAllister, Bush, Ingram, and Shockey at some point in those 11 seasons. Yet on average you can pencil him in for 15 ints and almost 7 fumbles per season. Again nothing to kill Brees about because he was ask to do alot. Goff is ask to do alot so Im not bothered by him turning the ball over. Im bothered by those "what were you thinking" type turnovers like the one he had against Seattle. Those cant happen. If Goff is more smart with the ball when it comes to situation then Im ok. Im not going to freak out if I see Goff turn the ball over because again when you are asked to do alot just like Goff is and I just gave you the perfect example of Brees, you are going to turn the ball over. The second the Saints stop asking Brees to do alot and scaled his pass attempts alot down his turnovers went down over the past 3 seasons. 

Goff has much lower football IQ and field generalship than Brees. 

a more comparable comparison would be Jamies Winston 

[stl4life07]

1 hour ago, StLunatic88 said:

He was also 27 (and 5 seasons in) to START this run, but we should make a career judgment by then, a QB will never get better from that point

Thank you! 

[jrry32]

30 minutes ago, rocky_rams said:

Goff has much lower football IQ and field generalship than Brees. 

a more comparable comparison would be Jamies Winston 

Except for the fact that Goff's and Winston's careers aren't remotely comparable to this point, outside of both being #1 overall picks.

[stl4life07]

1 hour ago, jrry32 said:

Except for the fact that Goff's and Winston's careers aren't remotely comparable to this point, outside of both being #1 overall picks.

It just shows the lack of respect people have for Goff. His career definitely shouldnt be compared with Winston. Winston has never led a team to the playoffs. The Bucs I dont think never had a winning record with Winston. The only thing they have in common is being 1st overall picks and honestly people had questions about Winston maturity coming out of FSU. 

[Flounch]

I don't know if you saw Mcvay press conference but there was a lot of "he's recognize coverage, he's seeing the field, he extends the play, etc..." 

There was even a shot at Goff when he said ' He makes plays, there's guy around him that are capable of making some of those and i expect those guys to be able to do that but i thought he really gave us a chance offensively with the amount of plays that he made" 

Well that said it all. 

[BStanRamFan]

14 hours ago, JonStark said:

This is literally trying to have it both ways. When discussing who should be the starting QB in the playoffs right now, you pick the better player. If Wolford's expectations should be lower, he is not the better player. 

No. One we know what we have, one is an unknown. One, at one point in his career, looked to be an MVP caliber player and since has regressed into a turnover waiting to happen. The other has NEVER PLAYED A SNAP until last Sunday and showed flashes. Why on earth would both of those players have the same level of expectations? I know what I saw last week and I saw the team rally behind Wolf and there are things in the stat sheet that can't account for that.

I would "roll the dice" and gamble on the unknown. That is just me. 

Serious question though, do the Jrry and Jrry-ette's plan on getting back on the road after COVID is over? Cause I'd love to catch a show. @jrry32 @NVRamsFan

Edited January 5, 2021 by BStanRamFan

[jrry32]

1 hour ago, BStanRamFan said:

No. One we know what we have, one is an unknown. One, at one point in his career, looked to be an MVP caliber player and since has regressed into a turnover waiting to happen. The other has NEVER PLAYED A SNAP until last Sunday and showed flashes. Why on earth would both of those players have the same level of expectations? I know what I saw last week and I saw the team rally behind Wolf and there are things in the stat sheet that can't account for that.

I would "roll the dice" and gamble on the unknown. That is just me. 

Serious question though, do the Jrry and Jrry-ette's plan on getting back on the road after COVID is over? Cause I'd love to catch a show. @jrry32 @NVRamsFan

You have lower expectations for lesser players. Wanting to start a guy you expect less from because he's "unknown" in the playoffs is a pretty dumb move. We may be forced to start Wolford if Goff isn't healthy enough to go, but your rationale for starting him over a healthy Goff is seriously lacking. Don't lash out because you can't defend it.

[BStanRamFan]

2 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

You have lower expectations for lesser players. Wanting to start a guy you expect less from because he's "unknown" in the playoffs is a pretty dumb move. We may be forced to start Wolford if Goff isn't healthy enough to go, but your rationale for starting him over a healthy Goff is seriously lacking. Don't lash out because you can't defend it.

I liked what I saw from Wolford enough to roll the dice with him in the playoffs. After the way Goff finished the regular season, I do not have any faith in him to get us to a Superbowl. So my rationale makes sense to me and if it doesnt to anyone else...well you know what you can do. Even if Wolford put up 30 points you still wouldn't of been sold on him starting going forward so don't pretend like the last game mattered to you. You were riding Goff til the wheels fell off regardless. 

Also I'm not lashing out. The clique-ness on this board is hysterical to me and reminiscent of my mother and her old bitty friends on Facebook. I love it though please keep it going. 👯‍♀️

[jrry32]

4 minutes ago, BStanRamFan said:

I liked what I saw from Wolford enough to roll the dice with him in the playoffs. After the way Goff finished the regular season, I do not have any faith in him to get us to a Superbowl. So my rationale makes sense to me and if it doesnt to anyone else...well you know what you can do. Even if Wolford put up 30 points you still wouldn't of been sold on him starting going forward so don't pretend like the last game mattered to you. You were riding Goff til the wheels fell off regardless. 

Also I'm not lashing out. The clique-ness on this board is hysterical to me and reminiscent of my mother and her old bitty friends on Facebook. I love it though please keep it going. 👯‍♀️

Nah, I wouldn't have been sold on him. But at least I wouldn't be here talking about how I prefer the guy for whom I have lower expectations. You're only undermining your own argument. It's become clear that this is more about grinding your ax with Goff than the Rams winning. You can get upset and defensive all you want, but that's not going to obscure the flaws in the arguments you're making.

[JonStark]

1 hour ago, BStanRamFan said:

No. One we know what we have, one is an unknown. One, at one point in his career, looked to be an MVP caliber player and since has regressed into a turnover waiting to happen. The other has NEVER PLAYED A SNAP until last Sunday and showed flashes. Why on earth would both of those players have the same level of expectations? I know what I saw last week and I saw the team rally behind Wolf and there are things in the stat sheet that can't account for that.

I would "roll the dice" and gamble on the unknown. That is just me. 

Serious question though, do the Jrry and Jrry-ette's plan on getting back on the road after COVID is over? Cause I'd love to catch a show. @jrry32 @NVRamsFan

They would have the same expectations because you are literally choosing which one to play. If they are both healthy, you get to pick which one you play, so their expectations on their performance in the next game should be the same. If they are not, then the choice is clear. Your logic here is just wrong.

And don't be butthurt because your arrogance has made it seem like everyone is ganging up on you. Having an opinion that differs from others' having a similar one is fine, but you need to pump the brakes with the condescending BS. 

[BStanRamFan]

2 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

Nah, I wouldn't have been sold on him. But at least I wouldn't be here talking about how I prefer the guy for whom I have lower expectations. You're only undermining your own argument. It's become clear that this is more about grinding your ax with Goff than the Rams winning. You can get upset and defensive all you want, but that's not going to obscure the flaws in the arguments you're making.

Oh I'm 1000% disappointed in Goff and his play down the stretch is why I'm supporting Wolf after just 1 game. My only concern is the Rams winning. I said multiple times yesterday if Goff is starting this week then let's roll I'm on board. 

But Rams twitter, fans outside our fanbase, and some media pundits are supporting Wolford because they've completely stopped supporting Goff. I'm not the only one with this view. If you don't like my arguments that's fine, but the notion that the Rams should start Wolford is not obscure; it's gaining traction. I am very excited to see what McVay decides to do for the betterment of this team. And your position on Goff as the president of the Jared Goff fan club is pretty telling in itself.

If you want to take a few jabs as upset and defensive be my guest, but you're grumpy old man act has been getting pretty old, imo.