2021 FA and Trade Talks

[doumeyer]

20 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

I think the vast majority of you who hate Darnold don't take into consideration is... CONFIDENCE!!!

I don't know how many of you have played sports at a high level. I played College baseball and I know @xenajetsplayed professional soccer in the UK. So I'm sure he can agree with this as well. Confidence is everything in a player in any sport. Darnold had 0 confidence this year. And it showed. Look at the end of the 2019 season when his confidence was high and see how he performed with the same awful HC, worse OL and still a less than impressive group of weapons.

A new HC, a new OC, a new QB coach, revamped weapons. Might be all he needs to take that leap. Bc he will have the confidence back in his game. 

I really don't think there is one person on this board who hates Darnold, I watch as many of his his and Josh Rosen games as I could when they were in college. Darnold put up good numbers in college but he made the same critical mistakes in the pros as he did in college. Darnold has a strong arm can run and is a strong kid you saw that when he ran over a safety and but the guy on his back, in one of his last games, but something is wrong why he can't put it together. Could it be the coaching I have no idea.

[Bobby816]

1 hour ago, doumeyer said:

I really don't think there is one person on this board who hates Darnold, I watch as many of his his and Josh Rosen games as I could when they were in college. Darnold put up good numbers in college but he made the same critical mistakes in the pros as he did in college. Darnold has a strong arm can run and is a strong kid you saw that when he ran over a safety and but the guy on his back, in one of his last games, but something is wrong why he can't put it together. Could it be the coaching I have no idea.

I'd rather try him with a better supporting cast and way better coaching and then see what he has. He's already on the roster and with the 2nd pick and more, we can really help him. 

[doumeyer]

1 hour ago, Bobby816 said:

I'd rather try him with a better supporting cast and way better coaching and then see what he has. He's already on the roster and with the 2nd pick and more, we can really help him. 

I am starting buy into that also. And when he was at So Cal the coaching there was no better than Gase.

[Bobby816]

28 minutes ago, doumeyer said:

I am starting buy into that also. And when he was at So Cal the coaching there was no better than Gase.

Let’s be real... the guys who are very down on Darnold right now were the same ones high on him going into last year. Bc he finished 2019 strong. To think better coaching and a better supporting cast won’t rejuvenate his career is pretty narrow minded if you ask me.

Its starting to sound like the ones so hell bent on drafting a QB at 2, just what change more so than anything

[jetfuel34]

19 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

Let’s be real... the guys who are very down on Darnold right now were the same ones high on him going into last year. Bc he finished 2019 strong. To think better coaching and a better supporting cast won’t rejuvenate his career is pretty narrow minded if you ask me.

Its starting to sound like the ones so hell bent on drafting a QB at 2, just what change more so than anything

I agree and at least you know what Sam can do and need to work on. You have no idea on these QB's and then you add no combine or any real Pro days makes it even harder. I'm still on Darnold train unless we get Watson. I just don't like the QB's besides T Law. 

[Jag68Sid87]

1 hour ago, Bobby816 said:

Let’s be real... the guys who are very down on Darnold right now were the same ones high on him going into last year. Bc he finished 2019 strong. To think better coaching and a better supporting cast won’t rejuvenate his career is pretty narrow minded if you ask me.

Its starting to sound like the ones so hell bent on drafting a QB at 2, just what change more so than anything

Not me. I never wanted him. I accepted him and rooted for him to succeed once I saw him wearing our colors. But right up until the moment Goodell announced his name, I wanted us to go in a different direction. That year, I wanted Mayfield but he went first. My second choice was Barkley but he went second. My third choice was Nelson. I wanted the Jets to grab Nelson and then move back into the first round later on to select Lamar Jackson. 

But NFL teams are scared of going against the grain. They see a "prototype" and get blinders on for that player. 

Three years later, we still have no idea whether Sam Darnold is a starting quarterback in the NFL.

[Dr.O]

I wanted Tua if he was available last year, fact of the matter is Darnold hasn’t worked out and I’d rather bet on another rookie who has a ton of Talent(Wilson, Fields, Lance) than hope Darnold can make a career turnaround like the league has never seen.

[xrade]

1 hour ago, Bobby816 said:

Let’s be real... the guys who are very down on Darnold right now were the same ones high on him going into last year. Bc he finished 2019 strong. To think better coaching and a better supporting cast won’t rejuvenate his career is pretty narrow minded if you ask me.

Its starting to sound like the ones so hell bent on drafting a QB at 2, just what change more so than anything

And your point is?  Why would we not have hope for Sam with the way he played at the end of 2019? Many of us thought that maybe the light came on. Then this year happened. Classic case of regression.  Can he rejuvenate his career?  Maybe. But you make it sound like he had several good years then fell on hard times. You want to be real?  Sam never really had a career. Not yet anyway. Let’s say we keep him this year and because of better coaching, play calling, scheme etc. Sam does improve marginally. Then what?  Do we tag him for $27M plus?  Resign him for $22M+?  Do you really believe he is going to show enough that he should be worth that in 2022 or beyond?  Is he really going to take that great leap?  Sorry I just don’t see it.

I don’t care about change or who the QB is as long as he is good. Right now Sam isn’t. He may get a little better but then what?  At least if we draft a young QB he may or may not be good. With Sam, his “may be good” is looking slim. It is not change for the sake of change, it is change in the hopes that we can get a good QB. I have shown what Sam has done poorly that is mostly on him. I am still waiting for someone to show me the positives that are on Sam.

This is all probably a moot argument anyway as I think JD will keep Sam like I mentioned previously. And I will be waving the Sam banner just as every Jet fan should.

[KingOfNewYork]

8 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

I'd rather try him with a better supporting cast and way better coaching and then see what he has. He's already on the roster and with the 2nd pick and more, we can really help him. 

I wouldn’t mind it but looking at his interception reel and seeing that all but one was a terrible pass I just can’t with confidence say he’ll be better with better talent around him. The difference between good and great QBs is their ability to perform under pressure. So we can give him everything he needs but once he’s pressured well you’ve seen him play.

[Rockice_8]

7 hours ago, Dr.O said:

I wanted Tua if he was available last year, fact of the matter is Darnold hasn’t worked out and I’d rather bet on another rookie who has a ton of Talent(Wilson, Fields, Lance) than hope Darnold can make a career turnaround like the league has never seen.

Spot on couldn't have said it better myself.

Thinking that he's just going to go from arguably the worst starter in the NFL to a top 10 is even less likely then hitting on a QB at 2.

He just doesn't get it.  He consistently missed open WRs and threw horrible pick after horrible pick.  Who cares what his WRs look like he doesn't throw the open ones anyway.  I don't care who your coach is and who your WRs are we had an historically bad offense that he lead most of the time.  

It's time to move on.  You got your choice of Wilson, Lance, or Fields.  I trust JD will make the right choice.

[jetfuel34]

13 hours ago, Rockice_8 said:

Spot on couldn't have said it better myself.

Thinking that he's just going to go from arguably the worst starter in the NFL to a top 10 is even less likely then hitting on a QB at 2.

He just doesn't get it.  He consistently missed open WRs and threw horrible pick after horrible pick.  Who cares what his WRs look like he doesn't throw the open ones anyway.  I don't care who your coach is and who your WRs are we had an historically bad offense that he lead most of the time.  

It's time to move on.  You got your choice of Wilson, Lance, or Fields.  I trust JD will make the right choice.

You might want to look back on the history of NFL QB's. I did a quick search just on 3 QB's and all three struggled their first 3 years. Now by struggle I mean they either threw equal or just as many TD's as INT's and they completed around high 50 to low 60% completion rate. Those three QB's I picked where Payten Manning, Brett Favre and John Elway. All these guys won super bowls, MVP, HOF and where top 3 most of their careers. My point is no one wants to wait and develop a QB any more. I hope the Jets do develop Sam because if you go Wilson or Fields you are starting all over again and they will struggle for 3 years or so and then you will want a new QB again. I'm tired of changing QB so fast. Sam is the most talented QB at a young age that we have had since Namath. 

[xrade]

10 minutes ago, jetfuel34 said:

You might want to look back on the history of NFL QB's. I did a quick search just on 3 QB's and all three struggled their first 3 years. Now by struggle I mean they either threw equal or just as many TD's as INT's and they completed around high 50 to low 60% completion rate. Those three QB's I picked where Payten Manning, Brett Favre and John Elway. All these guys won super bowls, MVP, HOF and where top 3 most of their careers. My point is no one wants to wait and develop a QB any more. I hope the Jets do develop Sam because if you go Wilson or Fields you are starting all over again and they will struggle for 3 years or so and then you will want a new QB again. I'm tired of changing QB so fast. Sam is the most talented QB at a young age that we have had since Namath. 

You may want to check Manning’s stats again because he really only struggled his rookie year. As for Favre, he was a gunslinger and always had too many int’s. But compared to his passing yards and TD’s teams overlooked his propensity for ints. As for Elway, I can almost give you that one. But in reality, his career was pretty steady and the stats do not do him justice.

I can understand wanting Sam to succeed. You are emotionally invested. If you just step back and really look at his play he should never be mentioned in the same post as Manning, Favre, and Elway. It is not just about stats. It is about the way he plays the game. It is not good, ATM.

You want to give him time. Fine, but it comes at a cost. After this season he will need to get paid. Let’s say he does improve a bit, what would he be worth?  Do you think he will settle for $15M?  Somehow I can’t see that. It will probably be north of $20M. The cost of QB’s is prohibiting teams from sticking with them beyond the 4 rookie years. It is possible Elway may have been gone if he played like he did because of cost.  I have no problem keeping him for this year if the team thinks the really can make something of him. But if it does not work out, and right now the probability of that happening is too high, then what?  Please respond to the “then what” because no one else does. I really want to know what options there could be that I may have overlooked. 

[mattmanz91]

8 minutes ago, xrade said:

You may want to check Manning’s stats again because he really only struggled his rookie year. As for Favre, he was a gunslinger and always had too many int’s. But compared to his passing yards and TD’s teams overlooked his propensity for ints. As for Elway, I can almost give you that one. But in reality, his career was pretty steady and the stats do not do him justice.

I can understand wanting Sam to succeed. You are emotionally invested. If you just step back and really look at his play he should never be mentioned in the same post as Manning, Favre, and Elway. It is not just about stats. It is about the way he plays the game. It is not good, ATM.

You want to give him time. Fine, but it comes at a cost. After this season he will need to get paid. Let’s say he does improve a bit, what would he be worth?  Do you think he will settle for $15M?  Somehow I can’t see that. It will probably be north of $20M. The cost of QB’s is prohibiting teams from sticking with them beyond the 4 rookie years. It is possible Elway may have been gone if he played like he did because of cost.  I have no problem keeping him for this year if the team thinks the really can make something of him. But if it does not work out, and right now the probability of that happening is too high, then what?  Please respond to the “then what” because no one else does. I really want to know what options there could be that I may have overlooked. 

The "then what" is we go 8-8 or 7-9 and have to either trade for a vet or trade up in the draft for a QB when we could have just used the #2 pick this year, which we already have, to draft a QB.

[xrade]

19 minutes ago, mattmanz91 said:

The "then what" is we go 8-8 or 7-9 and have to either trade for a vet or trade up in the draft for a QB when we could have just used the #2 pick this year, which we already have, to draft a QB.

Agreed. At this moment in time, I just do not see a decent option if Sam does not take an exponential jump in 2021. There is the possibility that a college QB or two that we do not know of will make a huge leap. But the more likely outcome is that we will be out of range of the top QB prospects next year.

[Rockice_8]

1 hour ago, jetfuel34 said:

You might want to look back on the history of NFL QB's. I did a quick search just on 3 QB's and all three struggled their first 3 years. Now by struggle I mean they either threw equal or just as many TD's as INT's and they completed around high 50 to low 60% completion rate. Those three QB's I picked where Payten Manning, Brett Favre and John Elway. All these guys won super bowls, MVP, HOF and where top 3 most of their careers. My point is no one wants to wait and develop a QB any more. I hope the Jets do develop Sam because if you go Wilson or Fields you are starting all over again and they will struggle for 3 years or so and then you will want a new QB again. I'm tired of changing QB so fast. Sam is the most talented QB at a young age that we have had since Namath. 

The fact that you had to back that far should tell you all you need to know.  The NFL is begging for guys to throw for 4,000 yards.  Sam is one of the worst starters in the NFL that is fact.

You want to bank on this great improvement year 4 by all means I'm not because we are in position to land a great prospect Wilson or Fields without having to do a thing.  I'm not passing on that chance in hopes Sam does the impossible I'm sorry Im just not.