Deshaun Watson Traded to Cleveland (3FRPs)

[Drained]

21 minutes ago, ET80 said:

Jack - and by proxy, Cal - are the issue. We all know what Andre Johnson said, and it was shortly after this issue started to bubble up, so - even with "improvements" (I don't think we improved, but to each their own) Easterby still has a lot of power in the organization and Watson clearly didn't care for that.

I don't think Watson necessarily cares for Cal or Jack if I'm honest. I think that's just what people are running with. Though I am 100% sure they were a big part of why AJ didn't continue as a coach. I personally, if I'm going to guess the issue, think it's because Watson is frustrated and feel like his talents are wasted in Houston and I think he told AJ that. Then again, he's literally just being a complete idiot, wasting a year (maybe more of his career) and then electing (possibly) to go to the Dolphins which I don't think are any closer to a super bowl than we were two years ago and are possibly even more infamous for wasting careers.

Edited August 31, 2021 by Drained

[ET80]

2 hours ago, Drained said:

I don't think Watson necessarily cares for Cal or Jack if I'm honest. I think that's just what people are running with.

I think this is revisionist history - remember, Watson began his whole cryptic tweet storm right after Caserio was hired:

Which was in reference to the following tweet from Adam Schefter:

This was days after the Caserio hire/Easterby keeping his job. This is only a narrative because Watson was very passive aggressive... specifically towards this.

Obviously we have bigger issues to talk about regarding Watson, but the original narrative pre-allegations was Watson wanted out because Caserio was hired on the recommendation of Jack Easterby - and Watson wasn't the only one upset about it (remember, Jamey Rootes resigned shortly afterwards - a Texans lifer and Bob McNair's right hand man).

[ET80]

4 hours ago, Drained said:

Though I am 100% sure they were a big part of why AJ didn't continue as a coach.

Remember, AJ was very specific in who he was talking to... and who he was talking about:

This isn't cryptic. This is pretty blunt.

[Drained]

2 hours ago, ET80 said:

I think this is revisionist history - remember, Watson began his whole cryptic tweet storm right after Caserio was hired:

Which was in reference to the following tweet from Adam Schefter:

This was days after the Caserio hire/Easterby keeping his job. This is only a narrative because Watson was very passive aggressive... specifically towards this.

Obviously we have bigger issues to talk about regarding Watson, but the original narrative pre-allegations was Watson wanted out because Caserio was hired on the recommendation of Jack Easterby - and Watson wasn't the only one upset about it (remember, Jamey Rootes resigned shortly afterwards - a Texans lifer and Bob McNair's right hand man).

I'm not saying the org isn't dysfunctional or that Watson had any reason to not be upset but like you said, the narrative pre-allegations was that Watson wanted out cause of the Caserio hire and the fact Jack held infinite power. Now the Caserio hire is heading in the right direction and the Culley hire is too (at least in my opinion with the staff he's built and the fact the players actually like him), the narrative seems pretty mute. He's either really stubborn, or the narrative pushed by Watson's camp to make Watson seem like he has been dealt a short hand is all smoke and he feels like he won't achieve anything here.

I just feel personally like the org could go to the playoffs this season and he'd still leave, cause he isn't satisfied with that, he wants a ring. Don't know why he thinks he'll get it in Miami but he very clearly isn't leaving here for another year easily and for some reason he thinks he's still winning the battle.

Edited August 31, 2021 by Drained

[paul-mac]

14 hours ago, ET80 said:

He doesn't want to play here. That's why the trade stuff even started, he wanted out.

Well yeah but surely he lost all his leverage when he allegedly got handsy with a bunch of masseuses?

 

You tell him he’s under contract and he needs to play 

[ET80]

6 hours ago, paul-mac said:

Well yeah but surely he lost all his leverage when he allegedly got handsy with a bunch of masseuses?

 

You tell him he’s under contract and he needs to play 

I don't disagree, but does any team (not just the Texans) want to start a guy like Watson right now, with all the legal stuff that's out there? 

It's not like the Texans were going to compete for a playoff spot, even with Watson in the lineup. 

[ET80]

15 hours ago, Drained said:

Now the Caserio hire is heading in the right direction and the Culley hire is too (at least in my opinion with the staff he's built and the fact the players actually like him), the narrative seems pretty mute.

Are these heading in the right direction? I don't think so, and I'd have a hard time being convinced otherwise.

Culley seems to have a good rapport with players, but we don't know what the new schemes look like (outside of wins against Jordan Love and Garrett Gilbert and a bad showing against an actual starting QB). 

As far as Caserio - we have a bunch of one year deals with fringe guys and three failed trades (Shaq Lawson, Ryan Izzo, Ryan Lindley). Caserio is ACTIVE, sure - that doesn't mean that he's GOOD. 

And then this all comes back to who the GM and HC report to - which isn't the owner. That's a power dynamic that was openly disliked by many people inside that organization, not just Watson.

15 hours ago, Drained said:

I just feel personally like the org could go to the playoffs this season and he'd still leave, cause he isn't satisfied with that, he wants a ring. Don't know why he thinks he'll get it in Miami but he very clearly isn't leaving here for another year easily and for some reason he thinks he's still winning the battle.

I don't think this is the case either. Remember, he was on board with the team up until Cal completely ignored Korn Ferry and chose to go with Easterby's suggestion - a person that Watson didn't like, and didn't really try to disguise his feelings towards him.

I go back to this article and try to find something that changed - only thing that changed is Watson's legal issues. The issues raised in this article? Still there.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2021/01/16/texans-chaos-deshaun-watson-unhappy-how-jack-easterby-kept-his-job

[tab]

3 hours ago, ET80 said:

I don't think this is the case either. Remember, he was on board with the team up until Cal completely ignored Korn Ferry and chose to go with Easterby's suggestion - a person that Watson didn't like, and didn't really try to disguise his feelings towards him.

 

my only issue with this is that Watson thanked Easterby by name after he signed his new contract in September

 

wtf happened in 4 months that made houston that bad of a place to be? 

that said, i still think easterby is a snake and i want him out of the org

[ET80]

57 minutes ago, tab said:

wtf happened in 4 months that made houston that bad of a place to be? 

The GM and HC got fired. That's a LOT. For all intents and purposes, Watson liked BoB - as we've seen, Watson isn't afraid to be a passive aggressive lil *****, he'll hate on people without really voicing himself. We never saw any of that with BoB, just a dying devotion to a man who was in over his head as a HC, let alone GM. He was at a 2 when said GM traded away his friend/best WR in football, but took it to a 10 when Easterby pulled off what he did (his and Future's words, not mine).

Don't get me wrong, BoB HAD to go. No ands, ifs or buts about it. But this is sort of like when a dictator is ousted... and an even worse regime takes over. (At least to Watson, this is what happened). Think about what's going on with a certain country overseas (THINK, don't TALK - we have rules here).

BoB was/is bad, he's a failure. Easterby was/is as bad, but he's WORSE than a failure because he's not even qualified to do what he does. 

And this doesn't even go into how Cal lied to him about how he'd be involved in the GM/HC hire...

[ET80]

On 9/1/2021 at 7:52 AM, ET80 said:

As far as Caserio - we have a bunch of one year deals with fringe guys and three failed trades (Shaq Lawson, Ryan Izzo, Ryan Lindley).

* Five failed trades (Green Bay CB Ka'dar Hollman for a 7th and John Reid to Seattle for a conditional 6th that we won't get because Reid was cut).

So, Caserio is right now hitting .000 on the trade front.

[lumberjackchris]

3 hours ago, ET80 said:

* Five failed trades (Green Bay CB Ka'dar Hollman for a 7th and John Reid to Seattle for a conditional 6th that we won't get because Reid was cut).

So, Caserio is right now hitting .000 on the trade front.

I mean 6th and 7th round pics are lotto tickets, so trade them or getting them for guys we were going to cut outright isnt a knock to me. 

[ET80]

13 minutes ago, lumberjackchris said:

I mean 6th and 7th round pics are lotto tickets, so trade them or getting them for guys we were going to cut outright isnt a knock to me. 

Only thing about that is - the one pick from this draft class that's going to immediately contribute is 7th round pick Roy Lopez. Say what you will on Mills, Collins, Jordan, Wallow - Lopez is getting immediate PT in the DT rotation, a masterful pick.

In a very small sample set, Caserio is showing an ability to do something with that pick in a draft. Why just throw them away on a guy that we'd cut within a week? 

It's notsomuch what we traded away - but what we did with the player we traded for. How long was Ka'dar Hollman here for? Did we really need to give up a pick? How about Ryan Izzo? Ryan Lindley?

In addition, those picks traded away now means we can't use them later when moving up and down the draft board next draft - technically, Caserio is 1/6 on trades, as he did use some foresight on trading up in the draft to select Nico Collins. That was a smart move, but what did he use to get up to Collins? Later round assets. Now that he's moving them for other guys, so they're not available if the team needed to trade up in '22, if another highly rated player is in freefall.

It just seems as if Caserio is throwing things against the wall and seeing what sticks at this point. Trading away a pick and getting nothing in return is bad business, and that's pretty much the Caserio MO at this point.

[LORK88]

3 minutes ago, ET80 said:

Only thing about that is - the one pick from this draft class that's going to immediately contribute is 7th round pick Roy Lopez. Say what you will on Mills, Collins, Jordan, Wallow - Lopez is getting immediate PT in the DT rotation, a masterful pick.

In a very small sample set, Caserio is showing an ability to do something with that pick in a draft. Why just throw them away on a guy that we'd cut within a week? 

It's notsomuch what we traded away - but what we did with the player we traded for. How long was Ka'dar Hollman here for? Did we really need to give up a pick? How about Ryan Izzo? Ryan Lindley?

In addition, those picks traded away now means we can't use them later when moving up and down the draft board next draft - technically, Caserio is 1/6 on trades, as he did use some foresight on trading up in the draft to select Nico Collins. That was a smart move, but what did he use to get up to Collins? Later round assets. Now that he's moving them for other guys, so they're not available if the team needed to trade up in '22, if another highly rated player is in freefall.

It just seems as if Caserio is throwing things against the wall and seeing what sticks at this point. Trading away a pick and getting nothing in return is bad business, and that's pretty much the Caserio MO at this point.

Counterpoint: Caserio isn't the only one that operates like this, a lot of GMs trade late round picks. Additionally, we got a 2022 6th from the Packers and Jets for Lawson and Cobb. The 2022 7th we sent to the Packers we got from the Bears with Anthony Miller to begin with. We have three 6th round picks in 2022 and still have a 7th rounder as well so we have more picks than we started with. We also have all of our 2023 picks as well as an additional 6th from the Giants for Keion Crossen. The benefit is we're not trading away major draft capital like 1st and 2nds like BOB did. 

[lumberjackchris]

22 minutes ago, ET80 said:

Only thing about that is - the one pick from this draft class that's going to immediately contribute is 7th round pick Roy Lopez. Say what you will on Mills, Collins, Jordan, Wallow - Lopez is getting immediate PT in the DT rotation, a masterful pick.

In a very small sample set, Caserio is showing an ability to do something with that pick in a draft. Why just throw them away on a guy that we'd cut within a week? 

It's notsomuch what we traded away - but what we did with the player we traded for. How long was Ka'dar Hollman here for? Did we really need to give up a pick? How about Ryan Izzo? Ryan Lindley?

In addition, those picks traded away now means we can't use them later when moving up and down the draft board next draft - technically, Caserio is 1/6 on trades, as he did use some foresight on trading up in the draft to select Nico Collins. That was a smart move, but what did he use to get up to Collins? Later round assets. Now that he's moving them for other guys, so they're not available if the team needed to trade up in '22, if another highly rated player is in freefall.

It just seems as if Caserio is throwing things against the wall and seeing what sticks at this point. Trading away a pick and getting nothing in return is bad business, and that's pretty much the Caserio MO at this point.

I get that, but who's to say a coach on the staff wasn't lobbying for said players and Caserio listened and brought them in. Will never know the inner workings. 

[Pastor Dillon]

I can’t believe that Watson is legit gonna sit out a year in the beginning of his prime. Has that ever happened before with a player of his magnitude? 
 

25 year old, 3x pro bowl QB who just led the league in passing yards and he’s a healthy scratch this season. That’s just nuts.