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Maximum Carnage Mafia (Legacy) - GAME OVER Bcb wins and everyone else loses, lol

Blue

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Daniel

Daniel

Posted
Posted
12 hours ago, Counselor said:

Was anyone watching me? Or did anyone track anyone to me?

Alright hold on yall, this will be a long one.  There are actually some more I need to get just from this phase to finish building the case that Malf is non-Thunderbolts, but this was already getting really long.

First, here's Counselor's RB post.  Obviously based on what he said, he was roleblocked, or he wouldn't be scrambling to out whoever targeted him.  Which isn't surprising, since he investigates to see if someone's a symbiote.

12 hours ago, Malfatron said:

no, but it would be easier for them to craft a fake claim if they know what specific result you got

Here, Malf seems to not know that somehow.

12 hours ago, Malfatron said:

or, let me ask this first.

did your result seem like town or scum @Counselor

Doubling down on not seeing the roleblock here.  This is important later.

12 hours ago, Daniel said:

That sounds like Counselor was blocked.

Here I come to the obvious conclusion that he was blocked.

12 hours ago, Malfatron said:

assuming you were roleblocked by your latest comment

This is the next post after.

12 hours ago, Daniel said:

Counselor, did you get flavor for the block, or were you just unable to complete your action?

If you'll look here, I gave Counselor the exact wording that I used later.  Because I wasn't trying to hide that or hedge my bets or whatever.  Once Counselor broadcasted that he was blocked, I thought I might be seeing the same thing.

12 hours ago, Daniel said:

I'll just put my info out there, then.

I've been unable to complete my action for both phases.  No flavor, but that's what I got.

I'm wondering if we either have multiple scum roleblockers or a roleblocker who gets multiple targets.

Realistically, anyone who's roleblocking someone other than Swag is scum.

Here, again, I use the same phrase, because that's what I was given.

12 hours ago, Counselor said:

By no flavor what does it tell you? Just that you can’t complete your action?

Counselor's question to me about what no flavor meant.  At this point, I'd already said it twice, but I was worried about skirting the rules by directly putting it off.  Blue said it was fine, so long as I didn't quote it directly.

12 hours ago, Daniel said:

I was just told that I was unable to INSERT MY ABILITY AND TARGET HERE.

So I made this post, with the same wording again.  Because I'm not hiding anything here, I'm thinking that Counselor was maybe told the same thing, and we have a multi-blocker.  If anyone tracked someone to me, then that means we out them, which is obviously why I put the info in the thread.  It would make no sense to do this as scum because I would know that Counselor was blocked, and wouldn't have any info on me, which seems to be the idea that Malf is pushing, that I got out in front of it or whatever.

But as I said, that makes no sense.  Doing this only puts a spotlight on me, and since I had no heat on me, wouldn't make any sense.

11 hours ago, Malfatron said:

this sounds like a "soft attack" on gopher.

similar to your soft attack on buff.

i think that you and gopher might be scumbuddies.

Here he starts the soft attack line.  He doesn't lay out a case here, just calls my pushes soft so he can sell the narrative that I'm scum.

11 hours ago, Counselor said:

Daniel was also the first one to say it sounded like I was role blocked. I believe he knew I was roleblocked. 

This has been discussed already, but since 'm on this page anyway, bringing it back up.  Counselor essentially told everyone he was roleblocked in his first post of the phase.

11 hours ago, Malfatron said:

Im leaning toward hes just making the whole thing up about his move not working 

that way, if someone claimed to track/investigate him, he could turn it around and say they are a roleblocker

Here's a kicker.  Someone can clear me of this line.  I was given a gift at the beginning of the phase that allowed me not to be tracked or watched.  I don't want that person to out themselves if at all possible, but I will let this person know, my role is powerful, and I'd really like to not be mislynched.

As for the investigation: the investigator was blocked, which Malf knows.

11 hours ago, Daniel said:

That's not true at all.  I was literally a post behind MWil attacking bbb.  I laid him and gopher as the two votes I would be willing to make before anyone else was bringing heat on him.

You made it pretty obvious by asking if anyone watched you or tracked someone to you.

This is me responding to Counselor calling me late on the bbb lynch and questioning how I knew he was blocked.

11 hours ago, Malfatron said:

@JoshstraDaymus can you explain how your power works?

i find it strange that you can find how many reds there are (not including conversions)

it doesnt feel to me like the host would tack on that part.

can you be more clesr what you do?

This goes more towards my assertion that Malf isn't Thunderbolts.  He seems very concerned about Josh's ability once he suspects that Josh can find out about alignment numbers.

11 hours ago, Malfatron said:

i concur on this with daniel

i came to the same conclusion

This is in response to Counselor wondering how I knew he was roleblocked.  And actually, looking at this again, he doesn't say it was from the beginning, so I guess that's not really a lie.  Not gonna go back and edit it though, that takes too long.

11 hours ago, Malfatron said:

you werent roleblocked then.

since it doesnt match nachos/counselors writeup.

and people dont seem to care that the verbiage is different.

but by saying that, if anyone had come forward to investigate you, you could turn it around on them and say they blocked you.

Again, our investigator was blocked, so this would give no benefit to me.

11 hours ago, Malfatron said:

throwing suspicion at someone, but not with the intention that they get lynched

Here's where Malf defines a soft push.  Conveniently, it's a definition that relies on his subjective view of what the intent behind it was.  It's a great definition because it allows him to call anything he wants soft.

It's also not what I've ever seen anyone call a soft defense.  In my experience, a soft defense/attack is where you only kind of imply the defense/attack, so that you can say you fingered someone without needing to worry about it.  My interactions with Gopher don't match that at all.  And Malf knows this, which is why he backs off later.

11 hours ago, Daniel said:

So anything.

Did you completely skip Day 1?  Because I had my vote on gopher the entire day, repeatedly made the case for him being scum, and have continued to bring up that I had a day 1 read on him even as he's disappeared.  I don't see in what universe that can be called a soft attack.

And I don't know what universe you would think that in either.

Here, I'm so surprised by Malf's nonsensical reasoning that I start to push him to explain, since as it is, it makes no sense.

11 hours ago, Malfatron said:

@Daniel would it hurt anything if you revealed who you tried to visit n1 and n2?

maybe its explainable because a roleblock doesnt make sense.

1. would be different flavors

2. too many roleblockers likely, and the scum rb targets (md4l and counse) are obvious

Here, Malf starts to fish for more information out of me, but more importantly, he starts to back off because I'm pushing back and he doesn't want heat coming his way since he's hiding something.

11 hours ago, Daniel said:

I have no intention of revealing anything else.

My response.

11 hours ago, Malfatron said:

Im not saying that you and gopher definitely scum together 

but i can picture you together as scum based on potentially trying to not softdefend and moving the pendulum the other way

i still cant wrap my head around the double move failure that you claimed

Here he backs off more, saying "Well, I could see it, but maybe not."

11 hours ago, Daniel said:

You can picture, that I, as scum with gopher, would spend the entire day 1 trying to get him lynched, only mentioning one of my other scummates as a possible target, and only attacking them the entire day?

That's your reasoning, right?

I don't back down, and keep pushing Malf to explain how my interactions with Gopher were soft.  Because he hasn't yet.

11 hours ago, Malfatron said:

Its simply one theory i have

More backpedaling.

11 hours ago, Malfatron said:

im about 50/50 on it, so i will likely need to reread you.

Even more backing down.  Here, by backing down, Malf is trying to get me off his case by coming down off of mine.  You can see that in the later replies.

11 hours ago, Daniel said:

I'd like to explore this theory more.  Make it make sense.

Because I can't make it make any sense at all, and I'm wondering how such a nonsensical theory is something you would push.

I don't, because in my mind, he hasn't shown it yet, and he's made no attempt to explain, no matter how many times I press him on it.

10 hours ago, Malfatron said:

Distancing isnt all too uncommon.

i have to reread through your posts to see if i can pick up on any ill itent, or whether it seems natural.

you put out a lot of content , so im hoping i can get a better sense of whether you are scum or town

Here Malf sees that I'm not gonna let it go until I get an explanation, so he falls back on needing to reread.

10 hours ago, Daniel said:

I'm still struggling to see how you can call that a bus, when it was pretty much an all out attack.  Unless I had a kill lying around, there's not much else I could do to him.

Do you see every push as a bus?  Were you bussing bbb by pointing out his lie?

See, you were targeted for a kill, saved by the doctor, and in on the bbb push, but this is so out there, and so unlike you that it immediately makes me suspicious of you.

You have an extra WC don't you?

I suspected it earlier, but it's here I come to the conclusion that Malf is a third party.  Between his interest in Josh, and his poorly explained attack on me, he seems scummy, but you will never convince me that what happened in the writeup was a recruit.  I just don't see Blue doing that unless he's really trying to kneecap the recruiter.

I still think it's overwhelmingly likely that Malf isn't Carnage aligned, but he ain't Thunderbolt.

10 hours ago, Malfatron said:

its really not unlike me.

ive picked up on some things. maybe i will see it a different way after a reread of your posts.

He bails so he can reread.

10 hours ago, Malfatron said:

@Daniel you will understand if you are really town.

Here, again, he's trying to warm back up to me with a cryptic statement.

10 hours ago, Malfatron said:

maybe not now, but later in the day

This is just a followup post to the above.

10 hours ago, Daniel said:

We’ll see. I know you’re not with Carnage, but I definitely think you’re hiding something.

Me repeating the conclusion I outlined above.

10 hours ago, Malfatron said:

youre right @Daniel i read back and it was more of an assault between you and gopher.

i retract the soft attacking comment

Supposedly after rereading, Malf now thinks I was sincerely attacking Gopher.  To be fair, that should be obvious if you read it, that's my next wall of text post.  But boy, he read it awfully quickly.  I think this is him just trying to get me off his back.

10 hours ago, Daniel said:

I retract nothing.

Which I don't do.  My suspicions of Malf don't change just because he backed down, and I stand by them.

10 hours ago, Malfatron said:

So it was either a mutual hard scum bus early day 1, or likely town-town relationship there.

i would find it strange to go that route early day 1 if you both are scum to draw attention. on the other hand, it kinda feels unlike gopher.

He doubles down on the attack being sincere.

10 hours ago, Malfatron said:

@Daniel just curious?

why did gopher drop down your list a bit?

A question.

10 hours ago, Daniel said:

Glad to see we’re back on track.

Going through the Forge stuff, he pushed Forge a couple of times on the bullet question.

And others moved up.

My answer.  Gopher screamed scum on day 1, which is why I had my vote on him most of the day.  Day 2 he wasn't an option, and a lot of stuff changed.  Based on being scum with Forge in the past, and Forge not interacting with or talking about bbb at all, Gopher pushing him, a little bit, gave me some pause.  I still have my scum read, but I question whether Gopher is Carnage aligned.  Which is why he moved down.

10 hours ago, Daniel said:

Didn’t change my read of him, but did make me re-evaluate how likely it was that he was with Carnage.

Short version here.

10 hours ago, Malfatron said:

ok, a question about last game

why didnt you fight your lynch at all when you were scum?

This I just brought to highlight how different this game is from my last one, playstyle wise.  Because I'm town now.

10 hours ago, Daniel said:

No one made a case. Touch said “Daniel is scum,” and everyone else followed. I have to have a case to pick apart to fight a lynch.

And then I was making dinner during the end of the phase.

My answer, quoted for posterity.

10 hours ago, Daniel said:

MWil pointed out some stuff, but that was it. He parsed out that I was with Blue.

Followup.

9 hours ago, Malfatron said:

exhibit A: heres gopher commenting to squire. notice that gopher is trying to convince squire that hes town. hes not blindly attacking squire

this reads like a scum/town interaction to me.

next I will post the daniel/gopher interaction

Now, after I've gotten off, Malf's reread--which less than an hour ago told him my interactions with Gopher were sincere--tells him the opposite.

9 hours ago, Malfatron said:

check the very different tone when gopher is directing his comments toward daniel.

it feels a bit too unnatural; too over the top.

Followup on the above.

9 hours ago, Malfatron said:

also, i want you to weigh in on this as well.

i have a scum read on daniel/gopher interactions, but i want it to be correct

so what do you see there?

Less than an hour ago, his read was that it was town/town.

Either he lied about having that read an hour ago (to warm up to me so I'd back off of him), or he's lying now that he knows I'm not online and can't press him.

No way he had a scum read, went back and reread which changed his read to town, then went back again and changed his read again to scum in an hour.

Malf is lying.

9 hours ago, Malfatron said:

okay lets talk about daniels moves that didnt work.

roleblock claims already from people who were told they were roleblocked

n1 - nacho (likely town blocked)

n1 - md4l (likely scum blocked)

n2 - counselor (likely scum blocked)

n2 - no claim yet. its possible/likely the town roleblocker went for swag

 

so....i dont see how Daniels moves wouldnt go through here. his claimed flavor is different. he wasnt roleblocked. he didnt visit a jailed target because the flavor in the pm was roleblocked.

 

and if anyone asks "why would he fake claim this as scum", it might be because hes trying to get ahead of a result that he thought might be coming for him

and like daniel said, theres always wifom in mafia.

Here, Malf lies again.  I said, explicitly, and multiple times, that I didn't get any flavor, it just said I failed to complete my action.

8 hours ago, Malfatron said:

also, daniel may have swung and missed regarding Blues posts in the rules about night pms not having flavor. 

he assumed incorrectly imo of what the role pm would say. notice Daniels specific use of the word "flavor", ripped right out of Blues rules.

 

check out this interaction

 

anticipating that counselor didnt get flavor because thats what blues rules say.

 

 

what do you know? what guess did you have? that comment doesnt make too much sense.

 

this seems to trigger daniel to think that "not completing" his action would be the proper response to a flavorless roleblock action. 

so he goes for it...

 

Daniel mentions "no flavor" yet again. hes clinging to what he knows from Blues PM

 

??????????

what theory?

translation: Whoops, i messed up

I actually think I don't need to pick this apart again, since I've addressed all of this above and shown how it makes no sense.

8 hours ago, Malfatron said:

might also explain why pickle got so pissed about the roleblock verbiage

if daniel is scum....in order of confidence from me, gopher and pickle are also scum

I'll happily lynch gopher.  As I said Day ******* one.  And I still think there's no way anyone who's not terrible at this game would possibly see a bus between me and Gopher.

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Tk3

Tk3

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Daniel said:

Alright hold on yall, this will be a long one.  There are actually some more I need to get just from this phase to finish building the case that Malf is non-Thunderbolts, but this was already getting really long.

First, here's Counselor's RB post.  Obviously based on what he said, he was roleblocked, or he wouldn't be scrambling to out whoever targeted him.  Which isn't surprising, since he investigates to see if someone's a symbiote.

Here, Malf seems to not know that somehow.

Doubling down on not seeing the roleblock here.  This is important later.

Here I come to the obvious conclusion that he was blocked.

This is the next post after.

If you'll look here, I gave Counselor the exact wording that I used later.  Because I wasn't trying to hide that or hedge my bets or whatever.  Once Counselor broadcasted that he was blocked, I thought I might be seeing the same thing.

Here, again, I use the same phrase, because that's what I was given.

Counselor's question to me about what no flavor meant.  At this point, I'd already said it twice, but I was worried about skirting the rules by directly putting it off.  Blue said it was fine, so long as I didn't quote it directly.

So I made this post, with the same wording again.  Because I'm not hiding anything here, I'm thinking that Counselor was maybe told the same thing, and we have a multi-blocker.  If anyone tracked someone to me, then that means we out them, which is obviously why I put the info in the thread.  It would make no sense to do this as scum because I would know that Counselor was blocked, and wouldn't have any info on me, which seems to be the idea that Malf is pushing, that I got out in front of it or whatever.

But as I said, that makes no sense.  Doing this only puts a spotlight on me, and since I had no heat on me, wouldn't make any sense.

Here he starts the soft attack line.  He doesn't lay out a case here, just calls my pushes soft so he can sell the narrative that I'm scum.

This has been discussed already, but since 'm on this page anyway, bringing it back up.  Counselor essentially told everyone he was roleblocked in his first post of the phase.

Here's a kicker.  Someone can clear me of this line.  I was given a gift at the beginning of the phase that allowed me not to be tracked or watched.  I don't want that person to out themselves if at all possible, but I will let this person know, my role is powerful, and I'd really like to not be mislynched.

As for the investigation: the investigator was blocked, which Malf knows.

This is me responding to Counselor calling me late on the bbb lynch and questioning how I knew he was blocked.

This goes more towards my assertion that Malf isn't Thunderbolts.  He seems very concerned about Josh's ability once he suspects that Josh can find out about alignment numbers.

This is in response to Counselor wondering how I knew he was roleblocked.  And actually, looking at this again, he doesn't say it was from the beginning, so I guess that's not really a lie.  Not gonna go back and edit it though, that takes too long.

Again, our investigator was blocked, so this would give no benefit to me.

Here's where Malf defines a soft push.  Conveniently, it's a definition that relies on his subjective view of what the intent behind it was.  It's a great definition because it allows him to call anything he wants soft.

It's also not what I've ever seen anyone call a soft defense.  In my experience, a soft defense/attack is where you only kind of imply the defense/attack, so that you can say you fingered someone without needing to worry about it.  My interactions with Gopher don't match that at all.  And Malf knows this, which is why he backs off later.

Here, I'm so surprised by Malf's nonsensical reasoning that I start to push him to explain, since as it is, it makes no sense.

Here, Malf starts to fish for more information out of me, but more importantly, he starts to back off because I'm pushing back and he doesn't want heat coming his way since he's hiding something.

My response.

Here he backs off more, saying "Well, I could see it, but maybe not."

I don't back down, and keep pushing Malf to explain how my interactions with Gopher were soft.  Because he hasn't yet.

More backpedaling.

Even more backing down.  Here, by backing down, Malf is trying to get me off his case by coming down off of mine.  You can see that in the later replies.

I don't, because in my mind, he hasn't shown it yet, and he's made no attempt to explain, no matter how many times I press him on it.

Here Malf sees that I'm not gonna let it go until I get an explanation, so he falls back on needing to reread.

I suspected it earlier, but it's here I come to the conclusion that Malf is a third party.  Between his interest in Josh, and his poorly explained attack on me, he seems scummy, but you will never convince me that what happened in the writeup was a recruit.  I just don't see Blue doing that unless he's really trying to kneecap the recruiter.

I still think it's overwhelmingly likely that Malf isn't Carnage aligned, but he ain't Thunderbolt.

He bails so he can reread.

Here, again, he's trying to warm back up to me with a cryptic statement.

This is just a followup post to the above.

Me repeating the conclusion I outlined above.

Supposedly after rereading, Malf now thinks I was sincerely attacking Gopher.  To be fair, that should be obvious if you read it, that's my next wall of text post.  But boy, he read it awfully quickly.  I think this is him just trying to get me off his back.

Which I don't do.  My suspicions of Malf don't change just because he backed down, and I stand by them.

He doubles down on the attack being sincere.

A question.

My answer.  Gopher screamed scum on day 1, which is why I had my vote on him most of the day.  Day 2 he wasn't an option, and a lot of stuff changed.  Based on being scum with Forge in the past, and Forge not interacting with or talking about bbb at all, Gopher pushing him, a little bit, gave me some pause.  I still have my scum read, but I question whether Gopher is Carnage aligned.  Which is why he moved down.

Short version here.

This I just brought to highlight how different this game is from my last one, playstyle wise.  Because I'm town now.

My answer, quoted for posterity.

Followup.

Now, after I've gotten off, Malf's reread--which less than an hour ago told him my interactions with Gopher were sincere--tells him the opposite.

Followup on the above.

Less than an hour ago, his read was that it was town/town.

Either he lied about having that read an hour ago (to warm up to me so I'd back off of him), or he's lying now that he knows I'm not online and can't press him.

No way he had a scum read, went back and reread which changed his read to town, then went back again and changed his read again to scum in an hour.

Malf is lying.

Here, Malf lies again.  I said, explicitly, and multiple times, that I didn't get any flavor, it just said I failed to complete my action.

I actually think I don't need to pick this apart again, since I've addressed all of this above and shown how it makes no sense.

I'll happily lynch gopher.  As I said Day ******* one.  And I still think there's no way anyone who's not terrible at this game would possibly see a bus between me and Gopher.

Didn't read the whole thing

But this is either tunneling or a bad choice for you

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Pickle Rick

Pickle Rick

Posted
Posted

Someone catch me up....

-Did daniel get caught by pm wording?

-So a mod edited a post and is getting away with it (for now :ph34r:)? I wonder why that rule sucks

-Malf got converted by swag 

-Counselor claims to be cleared just bc he caught red

-Touch is hard defending daniel in a last attempt effort to salvage a beat down 

-someone claims there are 3 red left?

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The Orca

The Orca

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Matts4313 said:

 

Its a long story spanning multiple games - but essentially the twins and several other people started butting heads to the point where mafia was shut down. During that time the twins were allegedly cheating by sharing information. All that led to bad blood, specifically UNT and others to quit playing altogether. 

 

Since all that went down there have been some not so cordial conversations - some in discord. Now it seems like pickle antagonizes UNT by voting him in any game he plays in. When you *always* think someone is scum, your reads on that person are probably wrong (ahem, looking at you @SwAg).

You should have signed up, more fun with you 

3 hours ago, theuntouchable said:

Cause I’m not scum 

So...not town, not scum?

2 hours ago, theuntouchable said:

To clarify, I don’t particularly think the twins were cheating. I just don’t like them at all and I refuse to engage with anything they say now. 

This can change. It is a new beginning brother. We are all friends!

2 hours ago, MWil23 said:

Player List
Counselor

Malfatron

Touch

Josh

Nacho

MWil

KSJ

 

Daniel

Rack

ET

BCB

Ragnarok

Squire

Orca

TK3

 

Pickle

Gopher

SwAg
 

I've got some issues here 

2 hours ago, MWil23 said:

I'm a Hero for Hire after last night. I woke up to that. I win when Carnage is destroyed. Best guess is that it's a red herring town role.

So you were converted 

2 hours ago, MWil23 said:

I'm extremely confident that touch is Town.

Explain

1 hour ago, Malfatron said:

green isnt an issue for thunderbolts.

lets focus on red and win together. The general will likely just naturally die along the way

 

 

Umm, I disagree 

1 hour ago, MWil23 said:

With a much more complicated win con and a couple of people who will undoubtedly tunnel on me and/or kill me if given the opportunity, while then justifying their actions postgame as "YOU WERE NOT THUNDERBOLT IT WAS GOOD!!!!!!!!!!!"

Sketchy 

1 hour ago, Daniel said:

You were right.  I was faking that Malf/Matts thing, which is too bad, since they were both non-town anyway.  I remembered it because you fingered me for that reason, and no one followed you.  It wasn't til touch did it that anyone listened.

I mean, you were right.  But you never laid out a case, which made me super mad in the chat.  You literally just said "Daniel is scum," and that it was a read, and that got me lynched.

Anyway, so, I guess I'll start my defense:

First, a little ad hominem on Malf:

Yall are following Malf, who so far: Forced the watcher to claim on Day 1, named Forge and bbb as two of the three he'd save, and "nailed bbb," who me and MWil had been naming as scum the whole day.  Then there's the absolute about face he did here on my case.  At best, Malf is having a bad game.  At worst, he's trying to get a good town player mislynched.  I'll get to the specifics in a bit, but that requires quotes.

Second: nothing I've done lines up with being scum.  I was the second person to attack bbb (something else that Malf keeps lying about), I've been actively scumhunting, and volunteered information without any pressure on me because I'm trying to help the town win.

Third: This whole case is built on the idea that I'm bussing, which is something I never do as scum.  Last game, daboyle got linked to me after my death because I soft defended him (and by the way, that's what a soft defense is) to try to avoid him being the inactive lynch.  The game before that that I was scum, my scummates were found by squire because when I lined up my list of scummy to non-scummy, all of my allies were in the center section.  I challenge you to find any game I've played as scum where I early bussed a teammate.  It's something I just don't do.

Fourth: Cost/benefit.  I'm not gonna say I'm the best player, but I'm a good player.  I'm good at threadplay, read consistently, and find scum.  If yall are wrong, you lose an active, good player for town.  Since the whole case Malf has is based on me and gopher being allies, lynching him is a smarter move anyway.

Now, I would really prefer not to have to dig back through, again, to show that I attacked bbb early, but I am gonna show you how we know Malf is lying, but that's gonna take a minute.

What does 4 got to do with your defense lmao. I've had numerous MVPs and get killed more often on D1 and D2 than anyone and used to be the most active. Oh wait, im annoying 🤣, carry on 

1 hour ago, MWil23 said:

Also, Daboyle warrants a push at some point given his inactivity.

Let's do it!

21 minutes ago, Blue said:

Professional courtesy.

Awesome. Edit away everyone. The gates of hell have opened 

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