rocky_rams Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 8 hours ago, btfd16 said: Tbh there is more verified information coming out from Jared Goff right now than the Rams. He has a direct line to Silver and Silver loves him. And I have no issues with that either. He's hurt. He's human. Let it out then go work your *** off. The best revenge is success. Rams can’t say anything until March 17 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky_rams Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, JonStark said: Here's what I put in the other thread that I feel like summed it up pretty well (in reference to a Lions fan explaining how Stafford went through the same career progression Goff has). "We are two years removed from the Superbowl and two seasons where Goff looked great. He's about to go into his age 27 season, and the team gave up him just like that. It has nothing to do with not liking Stafford (at least from my opinion), but I just feel like we gave up on Goff too early to see if he could take that step forward, and got rid of a ton of capital along with him." Bottom line is we didn't give Goff the chance to work through it like the Lions did with Stafford and pulled the plug at the first sign of adversity, while losing a ton of capital along with it. Now the trade is what it is, and Stafford will do great here as well, but it was an emotional trade and the way they treated Goff toward the end (ie how he felt something was wrong but no one would talk to him about it and questioning his work ethic publicly) was disrespectful. Even if you are a fan of the trade, saying that trade a starting QB, two 1sts, a 3rd, and losing 8M in cap for a really good but not elite QB is in no way a home run trade. One was the positive on his team while the other was holding his team back one asked out of the losing environment and the other got shipped out again his will Edited February 4, 2021 by rocky_rams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonStark Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 1 minute ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said: By this rationale: do you believe that the Lions will have a better record than the Rams next year? No I don't. I'm not saying you can completely dismiss the rest of the team, but as the QB, they both play a large part in the team's success. They have to take at least some of the accountability whether they win or lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TL-TwoWinsAway Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 1 minute ago, JonStark said: No I don't. I'm not saying you can completely dismiss the rest of the team, but as the QB, they both play a large part in the team's success. They have to take at least some of the accountability whether they win or lose. Sure they do. They take some. Absolutely. The supporting cast takes some as well. Stafford has had a top 5 defense once. Just one time. The Lions went 11-5. The defense has been in the bottom 7 for the majority of his time in Detroit. He has never had a strong running game, and the offensive line has been average-at-best for the majority of his career. But, of course, if Stafford was largely responsible for the Lions' struggles, and Goff for the Rams' success, you'd think that trend would continue into 2021. There's a reason why it won't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonStark Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 Just now, rocky_rams said: One was the positive on his team while the other was holding his team back So would you have been alright with the Lions moving on from Stafford after his year 26 season for posting QB ratings of 61, 91, 97, 79, 84, and 85 while throwing to Calvin Johnson? Honestly, you guys will never convince me that it wasn't too early to move on from Goff at age 26. We've seen too many QB in the past turn it on after that and we've seen Goff do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonStark Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 1 minute ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said: Sure they do. They take some. Absolutely. The supporting cast takes some as well. Stafford has had a top 5 defense once. Just one time. The Lions went 11-5. The defense has been in the bottom 7 for the majority of his time in Detroit. He has never had a strong running game, and the offensive line has been average-at-best for the majority of his career. But, of course, if Stafford was largely responsible for the Lions' struggles, and Goff for the Rams' success, you'd think that trend would continue into 2021. There's a reason why it won't. This is one of the things I hate about discussing Goff. Somehow, this has turned into me downplaying Stafford when I clearly stated multiple times that I like having him. My opinion was that the Rams gave up on Goff too early, which they did. That has nothing to do with Stafford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky_rams Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 3 minutes ago, JonStark said: So would you have been alright with the Lions moving on from Stafford after his year 26 season for posting QB ratings of 61, 91, 97, 79, 84, and 85 while throwing to Calvin Johnson? Honestly, you guys will never convince me that it wasn't too early to move on from Goff at age 26. We've seen too many QB in the past turn it on after that and we've seen Goff do it. Don’t forget to mention that the QB position has gotten easier to play since the last 7-8 years and that he only had a rusher over 100 yds in only 11 games over his 160 career games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky_rams Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 3 minutes ago, JonStark said: This is one of the things I hate about discussing Goff. Somehow, this has turned into me downplaying Stafford when I clearly stated multiple times that I like having him. My opinion was that the Rams gave up on Goff too early, which they did. That has nothing to do with Stafford. Why do you think they moved on from him? Do you think it may be because they tried everything they can do to help him in terms of reading coverages and avoiding turnovers and he still repeated the same mistake after mistake? you guys are also the same people that think screens on third and long had nothing to do with McVay lack of trust in Goff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonStark Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 1 minute ago, rocky_rams said: Don’t forget to mention that the QB position has gotten easier to play since the last 7-8 years and that he only had a rusher over 100 yds in only 11 games over his 160 career games. And what does that have to do with who would've been the better QB for the next 4-5 years on the LA Rams? Because that's all I really care about. Age 27 Goff, 8M in cap, two 1sts, and a 3rd would've helped the team more than age 33 Stafford (who again, I'm also fine having at QB). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonStark Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 Just now, rocky_rams said: Why do you think they moved on from him? Do you think it may be because they tried everything they can do to help him in terms of reading coverages and avoiding turnovers and he still repeated the same mistake after mistake? you guys are also the same people that think screens on third and long had nothing to do with McVay lack of trust in Goff. Whether he had a lack of trust or not, that's on Mcvay. You let your QB sink or swim so that there are no questions, not this "in the middle" conservative crap he was calling. But god forbid anyone criticize Mcvay right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky_rams Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 Just now, JonStark said: And what does that have to do with who would've been the better QB for the next 4-5 years on the LA Rams? Because that's all I really care about. Age 27 Goff, 8M in cap, two 1sts, and a 3rd would've helped the team more than age 33 Stafford (who again, I'm also fine having at QB). It prolly has to do with Stafford being a much better QB and option over Goff and that he was held back in Detroit and could finally showcase his skills with a competent coaching staff and offensive weapons around him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky_rams Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 Just now, JonStark said: Whether he had a lack of trust or not, that's on Mcvay. You let your QB sink or swim so that there are no questions, not this "in the middle" conservative crap he was calling. But god forbid anyone criticize Mcvay right? It wasn’t sink or swim bro. Dude was literally drowning. He led the league in turnovers over the last two years. McVay wasn’t going let him lose more games by letting him rip it. If he didn’t prove he can read defenses why would McVay trust him to rip higher risk throws and potentially lose more games? lol what are you even saying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonStark Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 1 minute ago, rocky_rams said: It prolly has to do with Stafford being a much better QB and option over Goff and that he was held back in Detroit and could finally showcase his skills with a competent coaching staff and offensive weapons around him Alright we're done here. For the last time, I am not saying Stafford wasn't held back. I'm not saying anything about Stafford. I'm just using him as a comparison. I was initially responding to how someone could think this wasn't a home run of a trade and my focus was on the fact that we gave up to early on Goff and overpaid to do so. I've laid out the reasons with a few other posters, but will always get responses like "we don't need picks", "Snead knows how to work the cap", "Goff was 100% going to continue regressing" even though tons of other QBs have made it past a regression of their own. There's honestly no point in continuing this because we aren't going to change our minds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonStark Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 3 minutes ago, rocky_rams said: It wasn’t sink or swim bro. Dude was literally drowning. He led the league in turnovers over the last two years. McVay wasn’t going let him lose more games by letting him rip it. If he didn’t prove he can read defenses why would McVay trust him to rip higher risk throws and potentially lose more games? lol what are you even saying You've been provided countless examples of QBs underperforming before age 27 and then maturing, but continuously ignore them and are committed to the fact that Goff would never have progressed. That tells me there is nothing I or anyone you disagree with can say that would be good enough for you to deem worthy, so we're going to just keep talking in circles and wasting more time. You like the trade and I don't. That's that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky_rams Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 6 minutes ago, JonStark said: You've been provided countless examples of QBs underperforming before age 27 and then maturing, but continuously ignore them and are committed to the fact that Goff would never have progressed. That tells me there is nothing I or anyone you disagree with can say that would be good enough for you to deem worthy, so we're going to just keep talking in circles and wasting more time. You like the trade and I don't. That's that. Age is just a number. Also it’s not just about stats. QBs can get better without having better stats. Most likely Goff wasn’t able to pick things up or he showed that he wasn’t learning it which is why they’d dump him for so much. Otherwise if he was progressing then why pay so much for another QB? It’s common sense dude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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