Rams trade 2 future first rounders, a third rounder, and Jared Goff for Matthew Stafford

[JonStark]

46 minutes ago, BStanRamFan said:

I called him tough for the playoffs, I said he played well vs GB and mistake free vs SEA, I think he's a good kid and actually said I can't see any work ethic issues with his father already being a professional athlete so there is pressure and expectations, but he just doesn't have it between the ears. I'm out on Goff. Some are not. It's really not that big of a deal. My patience ran out quicker than others with him.

I'm not creating a narrative. Rams losing trust and confidence in Goff what is being reported by multiple sources and media outlets. I'm just one of the few on this board that has sided with the media and reports and therefore, I'm creating a narrative. My dad, uncle and cousin all life long Rams fans are out on Goff. Most of Rams twitter, out on Goff. The media has been out on Goff since before this season started. So let's scale back the "I'm creating a narrative" when it's widely accepted outside of 5 posters on this forum. And honestly, we could see a video of Jared  Goff stumbling drunk out of a club holding a newspaper with a Saturday December 19th, 2020 date on it and people would still find a way to not believe it. 

 

I'm not talking about the narrative on being out on Goff. I'm not, but I don't fault anyone for it because that's opinion.

I'm talking about the narrative of you bringing up things like "there were talks of him staying out and partying". For all of the interviews and on the field stuff, along with the sizeable amount of charity he did in the LA area, doesn't fit that narrative. There is no evidence of that narrative anywhere. Could he have gotten complacent and his work ethic slipped? Sure. Could it be the thing I brought up with Mcvay that led to the turmoil? Sure, but let's not sit here and act like Goff was a locker room cancer without having any actual proof.

[LeotheLion]

41 minutes ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

Are you suggesting that Goff is a cancer?

I was saying the exact opposite. Goff has proven time and time again in his career he is very good at rebounding from a perceived rock bottom. He did in after his 1-11 freshman season at Cal. He did it after his awful rookie year. This is just the next step for him. I don't think he is your QB of the future but I think he will buy-in to Campbell/Holmes' vision and work towards turning the Lions around.

[BStanRamFan]

2 minutes ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

Which sounds reasonable.

This whole "Goff isn't the right person to have in the locker room for a rebuilding team" thing sounds pretty... iffy. Just because a player has a lull in his career doesn't mean he'll stunt the growth/development of a team, or that he can't recover those things with a change of scenery.

I'll have to believe that Holmes doesn't think Goff is the wrong person to have in the locker room.

He's not at all. I also think you misunderstood what @LeoTheLion was trying to say. I shared the Gottlieb report and he was saying "Why would the Lions want to trade for a guy who lacks accountability and motivation?". There are alot of Goff supporters on this forum so if you want more info on Goff as a Lions fan, there are some great resources here. 

Holmes scouted Goff in the draft so he probably has a good read on him. I tend to think we reached our ceiling with Goff after 4 seasons and he started to regress; others think Goff had another level to progress as he's still young. I didn't see it, but I'm sure it's possible. I'm not sure he can reach that next level in a rebuilding situation. It will certainly make it more difficult. 

[JonStark]

14 minutes ago, BStanRamFan said:

He's not at all. I'm the anti-Goff guy on this board and I'm not at all. I shared a report from Doug Gottlieb that his sources claimed Goff lacked motivation/accountability last season. I think it's certainly possible, but it could just be he became complacent with his contract extension kicking in and thinking he was unmovable. In no way is Jared Goff a cancer. 

I think we're actually on the same page after reading this. 

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

1 minute ago, LeotheLion said:

I was saying the exact opposite. Goff has proven time and time again in his career he is very good at rebounding from a perceived rock bottom. He did in after his 1-11 freshman season at Cal. He did it after his awful rookie year. This is just the next step for him. I don't think he is your QB of the future but I think he will buy-in to Campbell/Holmes' vision and work towards turning the Lions around.

Got it. Makes sense. Thanks.

[rocky_rams]

7 hours ago, BStanRamFan said:

 

 This one hurt to read. I jumped off the Goff bandwagon after the NYJ game, but even after that I never questioned his work ethic. I think that was a topic some weeks back and I couldn't sit in that camp. It's crazy all the info that leaks after the fact.

 

 

 

 The line of thinking makes sense.

Looks like my source was accurate about Goff

Edited February 2, 2021 by rocky_rams

[rocky_rams]

7 hours ago, LeotheLion said:

I'm going to need a better source than Gottlieb. That man has tripled down on his stance that George Kittle isn't a good blocker. 

My source told me the exact same thing Gottlieb said 

Edited February 2, 2021 by rocky_rams

[rocky_rams]

7 hours ago, JonStark said:

You'll probably just roll your eyes, but I don't buy it. I honestly think that's there way of justifying one of two things:

1. The Rams know they did him dirty (like Warner and to an extent Sjax) and needed to save face. 
2. Goff was getting to the point where he wanted more freedom, like most vet QB do, and Mcvay refused to give up the reigns, leading to the turmoil. I think that one is more likely. 

Nothing about Goff's character, in his entire career with the Rams, pointed to him being a locker room cancer. From "I promise you I'll get it fixed" to snapping his broken thumb back in mid game, he's always been a team player.

I honestly don't want to harp too much on the Goff thing because the trade is done and I want to move forward with Stafford instead of keep an internal bias for the future, but I can't let the man's character be smeared without concrete evidence. 

How do you know this? 

[LeotheLion]

46 minutes ago, rocky_rams said:

My source told me the exact same thing Gottlieb said 

Again Gottlieb's word means nothing to me. You are just a guy on the internet who may or may not have a source. Once a respectable journalist/teammates/people in the organization are reporting it then I will buy it. Gottlieb has a history of speaking without have any basis for his claims. I'm sure someone else in the know will report if it is factual. 

I don't see though how anyone is reporting Goff lacked accountability. That right there raises red flags. He never once didn't take ownership for his struggles. That is something that the public can see. I don't know why the Rams will be frustrated with his lack of mobility. They knew this was the guy he was when they drafted and extended him. He wasn't going to turn into Kyler Murray because he got paid.

The work ethic claim may be true. I'm not part of the organization to know. Brad Holmes and Ray Agnew reportedly wanted Goff so it makes little sense to me that they wanted him if he wasn't accountable and had a poor work ethic. Those reports don't make sense. Why would they want an expensive, struggling QB, that lacks football IQ, accountability, and work ethic? 

The whole tweet by Gottlieb basically sounds like Goff is being compared to Wolford. Wolford is more mobile, Wolford is his 1 start took more deep shots, Wolford is a reported gym rat. But those facts do not mean the Gottlieb tweet is factual.

And for the people that matter in the Rams organization (McVay, Snead, etc), there is no way they felt this way pre-extension. Otherwise the extension is even dumber. So it is possible he lost work ethic and accountability after getting paid. Would have happened all in the last 17 months but it is possible. But did he really become less mobile and dumber? That would seem weird.

Edited February 2, 2021 by LeotheLion

[btfd16]

48 minutes ago, rocky_rams said:

Looks like my source was accurate about Goff

My source said: "who are you? how did you get this number?"

[rocky_rams]

22 minutes ago, LeotheLion said:

Again Gottlieb's word means nothing to me. You are just a guy on the internet who may or may not have a source. Once a respectable journalist/teammates/people in the organization are reporting it then I will buy it. Gottlieb has a history of speaking without have any basis for his claims. I'm sure someone else in the know will report if it is factual. 

I don't see though how anyone is reporting Goff lacked accountability. That right there raises red flags. He never once didn't take ownership for his struggles. That is something that the public can see. I don't know why the Rams will be frustrated with his lack of mobility. They knew this was the guy he was when they drafted and extended him. He wasn't going to turn into Kyler Murray because he got paid.

The work ethic claim may be true. I'm not part of the organization to know. Brad Holmes and Ray Agnew reportedly wanted Goff so it makes little sense to me that they wanted him if he wasn't accountable and had a poor work ethic. Those reports don't make sense. Why would they want an expensive, struggling QB, that lacks football IQ, accountability, and work ethic? 

The whole tweet by Gottlieb basically sounds like Goff is being compared to Wolford. Wolford is more mobile, Wolford is his 1 start took more deep shots, Wolford is a reported gym rat. But those facts do not mean the Gottlieb tweet is factual.

Sounds good dude. How did I say something similar before Gottlieb even said it?
 

But, believe what you want. Internally everyone knows the truth. My source knows Jared pretty well and actually likes him as a person. 
 

Doubt the Rams care what people like us on a forum think. 

[LeotheLion]

22 minutes ago, rocky_rams said:

Sounds good dude. How did I say something similar before Gottlieb even said it?
 

But, believe what you want. Internally everyone knows the truth. My source knows Jared pretty well and actually likes him as a person. 
 

Doubt the Rams care what people like us on a forum think. 

I'm more inclined to believe your initial report than what Gottlieb said. Gottlieb pretty much is doing a check your box for every attribute you wouldn't want in a QB. And we know Goff is accountable so that already disproves one of his points. You said Goff was starting to lose the locker room with his inconsistent play and he didn't have the drive to be great. That isn't as damning as what Gottlieb is saying and more believable. I don't buy Gottlieb's report is true and it all materialized within the last 17 months. Because they don't extend him to that kind of money if they had those red flags.

But there's other sources that to an extent discredit this (Detroit wanting Goff, Goff taking ownership for poor play, etc). You say internally everyone knows...except for Brad Holmes and Ray Agnew.

But I won't go back and forth. I just won't believe a lone report from Gottlieb. A respectable journalist, teammates, people in the organization coming out and confirming this then I'll be on board. I certainly buy 100% Goff was starting to lose the locker room with his inconsistent play.  

Edited February 2, 2021 by LeotheLion

[JonStark]

1 hour ago, rocky_rams said:

How do you know this? 

If you read my next post, it literally says it just a guess on my part. 

The turmoil came out of no where and even if Mcvay didn't think Goff could take the team to the next level, he wouldn't have passive aggressively talked about him the way he did in the media unless there was some sort of bad blood. They used to be close and Mcvay is not that type of dude, so there had to be something behind the scenes. That's my best guess, but that's all it is. 

[JonStark]

57 minutes ago, LeotheLion said:

The work ethic claim may be true. I'm not part of the organization to know. Brad Holmes and Ray Agnew reportedly wanted Goff so it makes little sense to me that they wanted him if he wasn't accountable and had a poor work ethic. Those reports don't make sense. Why would they want an expensive, struggling QB, that lacks football IQ, accountability, and work ethic? 

I agree with that whole post but the above is a great point. It's not like Holmes and Agnew were clueless on who Goff was at this point. 

[jrry32]

8 hours ago, JonStark said:

You'll probably just roll your eyes, but I don't buy it. I honestly think that's there way of justifying one of two things:

1. The Rams know they did him dirty (like Warner and to an extent Sjax) and needed to save face. 
2. Goff was getting to the point where he wanted more freedom, like most vet QB do, and Mcvay refused to give up the reigns, leading to the turmoil. I think that one is more likely. 

Nothing about Goff's character, in his entire career with the Rams, pointed to him being a locker room cancer. From "I promise you I'll get it fixed" to snapping his broken thumb back in mid game, he's always been a team player.

I honestly don't want to harp too much on the Goff thing because the trade is done and I want to move forward with Stafford instead of keep an internal bias for the future, but I can't let the man's character be smeared without concrete evidence. 

I don't know what went down, but the character assassination is inexcusable. I know I mocked the Jaguars for doing that crap. It's pathetic. I remember the way Martz used Bernie Miklasz to attack Kurt Warner and justify jettisoning him. This only has made me more angry at this organization.