Thompson vs. Gutekunst

[spilltray]

8 hours ago, cannondale said:

No context needed. Saw it on a recent chat and this seemed to be the best place for it. What was the context behind the Rodgers pick ?? What was the context behind letting Hyde and Hayward walk ?? Or the Bakhtiari pick ??  TT was in charge of personnel decisions.

The Hyde and Hayward decisions made sense. Hayward looked like an injury bust and Hyde wasn't a better S when the Packers needed a CB. Change of scenery did both well.

[vegas492]

 

14 hours ago, ThatJerkDave said:

Didn't we flip Thomas for a second or third?

I think you are confusing Thomas for Corey Williams, the DL.

[SSG]

18 hours ago, vegas492 said:

2004 Green Bay Packers draft class.

1.25  Ahmad Carrol, CB.

3.70  Joey Thomas, CB.

3.72  Donnell Washington, DL.

3.87  BJ Sander, P.

6.179  Corey Williams, DL.

7.251  Scott Wells, C.

I think we got good play out of Williams and signed/traded him for a second round pick.

Wells was a solid center for years.

Rest were terrible.  

You forget just how awful that draft was through the first 5 rounds.  Carrol was the longest tenured Packer of the 4 and he was cut early in year 3 as a Packer.  Thomas, Washington and Sander were all gone before that.  We also traded up to get Sander.  

This draft & the Joe Johnson UFA signing are what cemented Mike Sherman's legacy as GM.  

 

 

[SSG]

1 hour ago, spilltray said:

The Hyde and Hayward decisions made sense. Hayward looked like an injury bust and Hyde wasn't a better S when the Packers needed a CB. Change of scenery did both well.

Not sure I agree, especially in regards to Hayward.  We had MAJOR issues with our secondary at the time of his departure and he signed an extremely cheap deal with very little guaranteed money in SD.  He was also ascending having come off his healthiest season since his rookie year.  We banked on Damarius Randall and Quinten Rollins and ended up striking out badly.  Both players turned out to be scrubs as CBs and Hayward went on to be a multi-season all-pro elsewhere. 

[vegas492]

2 hours ago, SSG said:

You forget just how awful that draft was through the first 5 rounds.  Carrol was the longest tenured Packer of the 4 and he was cut early in year 3 as a Packer.  Thomas, Washington and Sander were all gone before that.  We also traded up to get Sander.  

This draft & the Joe Johnson UFA signing are what cemented Mike Sherman's legacy as GM.  

 

 

Yes, that was a crappy draft.  Even with hindsight, there wasn't much there in those early rounds.  No doubt.

[vegas492]

2 hours ago, SSG said:

Not sure I agree, especially in regards to Hayward.  We had MAJOR issues with our secondary at the time of his departure and he signed an extremely cheap deal with very little guaranteed money in SD.  He was also ascending having come off his healthiest season since his rookie year.  We banked on Damarius Randall and Quinten Rollins and ended up striking out badly.  Both players turned out to be scrubs as CBs and Hayward went on to be a multi-season all-pro elsewhere. 

Hayward was a good rookie.  Flashed big time.  I don't think he ever really built upon that in Green Bay.  I seem to recall that he regressed, and part of that may have been due to injuries.

Both Randall and Rollins had good rookie seasons.  They outplayed Hayward.  It was actually an easier decision to move on from Hayward with Shields taking the other corner position.

I'll never fault TT for letting Hayward leave.  And I'm happy that Casey found success elsewhere.

[TransientTexan]

2 hours ago, SSG said:

Not sure I agree, especially in regards to Hayward.  We had MAJOR issues with our secondary at the time of his departure and he signed an extremely cheap deal with very little guaranteed money in SD.  He was also ascending having come off his healthiest season since his rookie year.  We banked on Damarius Randall and Quinten Rollins and ended up striking out badly.  Both players turned out to be scrubs as CBs and Hayward went on to be a multi-season all-pro elsewhere. 

Hayward was a slight surprise, but there were legitimate concerns on whether he could play boundary CB. His successes in GB came at slot CB, and when he finally got a chance to fill in at boundary CB in a handful of games in his final year in GB, he flopped. From the boundary position, he surrendered 17.5 yd/rec and 13.3yd/target, allowing completions on 76% of his targets. All drastically worse than his SCB play. The whole league must’ve had the same concerns, as indicated by the small contract he settled for. 
 

You also have to remember that Sam Shields was still on the roster after Hayward departed. He was expected to be the #1 CB going forward, but had the career-ending injury the very next season in Wk1 of 2016. They also still had Hyde, who could moonlight at CB in a pinch, especially at slot CB. Randall and Rollins held up ok as rookies, so most could see the reasoning at the time. As the #1, the Shields situation bumped everyone up a peg in the coverage pecking order, which exasperated things. 

 

[Lodestar]

Hindsight is 20/20. Anyone who tells you they were pounding the table to keep Hayward is straight up lying.

[ThatJerkDave]

8 hours ago, vegas492 said:

 

I think you are confusing Thomas for Corey Williams, the DL.

No. We tagged and traded him to the Browns for a 2nd.  Sherman or Wolf traded Fred Vinson for Ahman Green.  I know we also traded Mike McKenzie to the Saints when he held out.  But I would have sworn that we traded Joey Thomas to the Saints for a 3rd.  When I looked him up, we did not.  Maybe I am making this whole thing up, but I promise that I am not lying to you.  I swear that we traded Joey Thomas when he got into a fight with Ahmad Carroll.  Is this a Mandella effect?

[ThatJerkDave]

2 hours ago, Lodestar said:

Hindsight is 20/20. Anyone who tells you they were pounding the table to keep Hayward is straight up lying.

I don't know that everyone would be lying, I do recall some people who wanted him around.  Nobody was pounding the table though.  I wanted him back, but I also recognized that it was poor cap management to pay him, and Shields, when you just spent a 1st and 2nd on CBs who both had pretty good rookie seasons, probably better than Hayward's 2015.

It was a bad move, but given the information at the time, it was the correct move.  Sometimes things just don't work out in your favor.  

 

Also, neither Micah Hyde nor Damarious Randall were going to beat Morgan Burnett or HaHa Clinton-Dix for a starting safety spot.  So can we put that one to bed too?

[CWood21]

18 hours ago, ThatJerkDave said:

I don't know that everyone would be lying, I do recall some people who wanted him around.  Nobody was pounding the table though.  I wanted him back, but I also recognized that it was poor cap management to pay him, and Shields, when you just spent a 1st and 2nd on CBs who both had pretty good rookie seasons, probably better than Hayward's 2015.

It was a bad move, but given the information at the time, it was the correct move.  Sometimes things just don't work out in your favor.  

 

Also, neither Micah Hyde nor Damarious Randall were going to beat Morgan Burnett or HaHa Clinton-Dix for a starting safety spot.  So can we put that one to bed too?

How quickly people forget Demaryius Thomas roasting him on national TV IIRC.  He was absolutely abused in that game which was when he was asked to play boundary corner.  He was a damn good slot CB with an injury history.  He ended up having a better career with the Chargers.  Same with Hyde.  We had two good safeties, and Hyde played corner both out of need and because he wasn't going to unseat HHCD or Burnett.  Not a problem in talent evaluation.

[JBURGE]

I remember this, this was 6-0 when we got smoked by Denver right?

[{Family Ghost}]

1 hour ago, JBURGE said:

I remember this, this was 6-0 when we got smoked by Denver right?

I was there that night .. what an embarrassment.  I sat there for most of that 3 plus hours with a hugely pissed look on my face.  We ended up with like 135 total yards or some crap.

[Dubz41]

On 3/5/2021 at 5:06 PM, ThatJerkDave said:

No. We tagged and traded him to the Browns for a 2nd.  Sherman or Wolf traded Fred Vinson for Ahman Green.  I know we also traded Mike McKenzie to the Saints when he held out.  But I would have sworn that we traded Joey Thomas to the Saints for a 3rd.  When I looked him up, we did not.  Maybe I am making this whole thing up, but I promise that I am not lying to you.  I swear that we traded Joey Thomas when he got into a fight with Ahmad Carroll.  Is this a Mandella effect?

Maybe the 'Modelo' effect.

[Refugee]

On 3/5/2021 at 12:37 PM, Lodestar said:

Hindsight is 20/20. Anyone who tells you they were pounding the table to keep Hayward is straight up lying.

I liked him as a player and he was a model teammate/citizen by all accounts.  He had bounced back after a down year and some injuries but I figured we couldn't pay up that year.  When I saw the contract he got, I immediately thought WTF?  I didn't think he would ball out like he did but it was pretty easy to see we should have kept him for that kind of money.

Hyde on the other hand, I loved his versatility on D and ST but when I saw his contract, I let it go. He also went on to play in a D where they used him to his strengths and we got worse at the position.