Should Flacco be finished as a starting QB?

[everlong]

How many games does Flacco have where he averages less than 5 yards per attempt?

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

19 hours ago, everlong said:

How many games does Flacco have where he averages less than 5 yards per attempt?

This year: 4

Career-wise until this year: 15, by my count.

source

Here's the total table, sorted from smallest Y/A to largest Y/A up until 5.

Year	Date	G#	Age	Tm	Opp	Result	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	Int	Rate	Sk	Yds2	Y/A
2017	9/24/2017	3	32-251	BAL	JAX	L 7-44	8	18	44.44	28	0	2	12	2	12	1.56
2012	10/21/2012	7	27-279	BAL	HOU	L 13-43	21	43	48.84	147	1	2	45.4	4	26	3.42
2011	10/24/2011	6	26-281	BAL	JAX	L 7-12	21	38	55.26	137	1	1	61	3	25	3.61
2015	9/13/2015	1	30-240	BAL	DEN	L 13-19	18	32	56.25	117	0	2	38.2	2	17	3.66
2009	12/7/2009	12	24-325	BAL	GNB	L 14-27	15	36	41.67	137	1	3	27.2	3	18	3.81
2013	12/29/2013	16	28-347	BAL	CIN	L 17-34	30	50	60	192	1	3	49.7	2	17	3.84
2013	11/10/2013	9	28-298	BAL	CIN	W 20-17	20	36	55.56	140	2	2	60	5	36	3.89
2014	12/21/2014	15	29-339	BAL	HOU	L 13-25	21	50	42	195	2	3	41.7	2	17	3.9
2010	9/19/2010	2	25-246	BAL	CIN	L 10-15	17	39	43.59	154	1	4	23.8	1	4	3.95
2008	12/14/2008	14	23-333	BAL	PIT	L 9-13	11	28	39.29	115	0	2	22.2	2	25	4.11
2012	12/30/2012	16	27-349	BAL	CIN	L 17-23	4	8	50	34	0	0	61.5	1	7	4.25
2017	10/15/2017	6	32-272	BAL	CHI	L 24-27	24	41	58.54	180	0	2	48.8	3	14	4.39
2008	9/7/2008	1	23-235	BAL	CIN	W 17-10	15	29	51.72	129	0	0	63.7	0	0	4.45
2016	10/9/2016	5	31-267	BAL	WAS	L 10-16	30	46	65.22	210	1	0	82.7	3	22	4.57
2017	10/22/2017	7	32-279	BAL	MIN	L 16-24	27	39	69.23	186	1	0	88.2	5	42	4.77
2017	10/1/2017	4	32-258	BAL	PIT	L 9-26	31	49	63.27	235	1	2	64.6	4	29	4.8
2011	11/13/2011	9	26-301	BAL	SEA	L 17-22	29	52	55.77	255	1	1	67.4	1	8	4.9
2013	12/8/2013	13	28-326	BAL	MIN	W 29-26	28	50	56	245	3	3	64.2	2	17	4.9
2008	11/16/2008	10	23-305	BAL	NYG	L 10-30	20	33	60.61	164	1	2	58.1	1	10	4.97

[M.10.E]

I would take every offense (including OC) in the NFL over the Ravens if Joe was the QB. Every. Single. One. Everything is bad on the offense. Just watch them play, no one gets open at all, OL can't block half the time, Joe has David Carr syndrome and panics under the first sign of pressure. Is Joe playing horrendous right now? Yes. Is he my biggest concern with the offense? No. I think our OC/Scheme is easily the worst in the league. It's a 2002 NFL offense playing in 2017.

Dolphins? Better playmakers

Browns? Hue at OC and OL.

Colts? TY Hilton.

[Thomas5737]

17 minutes ago, M.10.E said:

I would take every offense (including OC) in the NFL over the Ravens if Joe was the QB. Every. Single. One. Everything is bad on the offense. Just watch them play, no one gets open at all, OL can't block half the time, Joe has David Carr syndrome and panics under the first sign of pressure. Is Joe playing horrendous right now? Yes. Is he my biggest concern with the offense? No. I think our OC/Scheme is easily the worst in the league. It's a 2002 NFL offense playing in 2017.

Dolphins? Better playmakers

Browns? Hue at OC and OL.

Colts? TY Hilton.

Trade you Ricardo Louis and Rashard Higgins for Wallace and Maclin. Even Watson for Devalve. Throw in Collins for Crowell. Oh, and you can just have Hue.

Flacco doesn't have the GSOT but I'm not sure all of his failures are because of that.

[RavensTillIDie]

11 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

Trade you Ricardo Louis and Rashard Higgins for Wallace and Maclin. Even Watson for Devalve. Throw in Collins for Crowell. Oh, and you can just have Hue.

Flacco doesn't have the GSOT but I'm not sure all of his failures are because of that.

My dream scenario actually is Hue Jackson and Chuck Pagano being fired in the offseason and returning to the Ravens as their new offensive and defensive coordinators, respectively.

That aside, I don't think anyone is trying to completely absolve Flacco for the failures of this offense. We just know that he's not the main culprit behind the team's struggles. And if you watched yesterday's game, you know it's not just Raven's fans who feel this way. Both the in game commentators and the studio commentators repeatedly made comments about how they feel sorry for Joe Flacco because he literally has nothing to work with and the pieces he does currently have on the field with him actually make him look worse than he really is, e.g. dropped/tipped passes leading to turnovers, inability to get separation and stretch the field, inability to properly read and pickup blitzers, etc.

And the guys you named aren't terrible, but they have to actually be on the field to contribute, so in that sense sheer availability makes any other player more valuable in comparison.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

2 hours ago, Thomas5737 said:

Trade you Ricardo Louis and Rashard Higgins for Wallace and Maclin. Even Watson for Devalve. Throw in Collins for Crowell. Oh, and you can just have Hue.

Flacco doesn't have the GSOT but I'm not sure all of his failures are because of that.

I think when it comes to Browns vs. Ravens I have exponentially more trust in Hue Jackson scheming people open than I do Marty scheming Maclin/Wallace open. But it's still close, so that's maybe 30 out of 31 other teams that have better offenses than us. Not good. Not good at all.

[wackywabbit]

4 hours ago, Thomas5737 said:

Flacco doesn't have the GSOT

Quite a concession there.

Flacco's back hasn't been right and the scheme is bad and he's got nowhere to throw and he's missing those throws to nowhere and and he's getting beat up some more. It's all bad.

But, I mean, we all expected the offense to be bad before the offense started. I'm just trying to figure out how the run defense became so terrible. 

[jrry32]

IMO, he'd be a great fit on the Jaguars.

[jrry32]

On 10/17/2017 at 12:32 PM, everlong said:

Flacco is not exactly that great in the playoffs. Outside of his one anomaly Super Bowl run, his playoff stats look this:

180/321, 2083 yards, 14 TD, 10 INT, 77.4 passer rating, 6-5 record

Is that really worth being the #1 cap hit in the league?

I can cherrypick too. Since 2010, Flacco in the playoffs:

10 games

196/327

59.6%

2563 yards

7.8 YPA

24 TDs

4 Ints

104.1 Passer Rating

[alfalcone]

I'm a Ravens fan, and I've watched every minute of Flacco's career, and what has always struck me as remarkable is his lack of a willingness to investment in himself.  He is inaccurate, has a limited football IQ, takes unnecessary sacks, and is incapable of executing a 2 minute drill.  So will attest this to injuries, but the Vikings team Baltimore lost to last week was missing more key players.   I think it is reasonable to say he would be the 4th best quarterback on the Vikings.  Regardless, Baltimore can't get out of his contract until the end of next season. 

[RandyMossIsBoss]

He has looked dreadful, as have the Ravens offense on a whole since that Forsett breakout year, BUT he's 32, the prime age for a QB. There's no way his skillset has actually diminished IMO, and I think we saw enough of Flacco from around 09 to 14 to see that this guy is a starting caliber QB and 3rd tier QB when he's got the right weapons. It's not like he needs to be carried by elite skill players, he's never had what I would call a great supporting cast on offense and has still produced fine, but he's clearly not a QB who can carry an offense with no run game and non-spectacular receivers.

[drd23]

I'm curious as to what level, and when, Flacco's fans in this thread think that he can return to. 

If it will take until the OL is fixed, we have a top tier RB and get a true #1 WR, by my thinking that will take another 2 off-seasons at a minimum before the pieces are in place, and probably longer before they jell and start performing at a level required for Flacco to show what he isn't the poor QB he has been for the past year and a half.  By that time, he'll be 34 and the list of QBs who've had even moderately successful seasons at that age are basically only HOF QBs or guys like Carson Palmer, Joe Theismann, RIch Gannon and Brad Johnson who only played a year or 2 further.

IMO this is the reason that the Ravens need to consider moving on from Flacco once his contract allows - by the time the offense is "ready", he will be well and truly over the hill and in his last year or two (at best) of being a competent QB in the modern NFL

[Danand]

If people who likes stats want to see the anomaly, it is this year when looking at TD/INT and YPA. The rest of the years, even the one where he blew his knee, the stats are pretty much aligned.

I am also a Ravens fan, and I've watched every minute of Flacco's career, and what has always struck me as remarkable is how the times he shows great accuracy, makes the right decisions and make a wild play are never accredited to him. With how bad Flacco is, according to some in here, it is insane how much he has actually been able to do - and as I always say and others above already mentioned, while his supporting cast haven't been the worst in the league, it has not been among the best by far.

The only reasons most Ravens fans defend Flacco is because of the ridicoulous negative views some have on him. Most should be able to agree on, that he has great armtalent and he due to his inconsistent play can be a top 5 QB and bottom 5 QB during a game, from game to game and over a season. As any other QB, if everything around him breaks down, he doesn't look good either, but he can elevate his play, which he has done enough times in the playoffs to distinguish himself from other QB's who haven't been able to accomplish the same.

[Danand]

4 minutes ago, drd23 said:

I'm curious as to what level, and when, Flacco's fans in this thread think that he can return to. 

If it will take until the OL is fixed, we have a top tier RB and get a true #1 WR, by my thinking that will take another 2 off-seasons at a minimum before the pieces are in place, and probably longer before they jell and start performing at a level required for Flacco to show what he isn't the poor QB he has been for the past year and a half.  By that time, he'll be 34 and the list of QBs who've had even moderately successful seasons at that age are basically only HOF QBs or guys like Carson Palmer, Joe Theismann, RIch Gannon and Brad Johnson who only played a year or 2 further.

IMO this is the reason that the Ravens need to consider moving on from Flacco once his contract allows - by the time the offense is "ready", he will be well and truly over the hill and in his last year or two (at best) of being a competent QB in the modern NFL

With his knee and punishment he has taken in general, I doubt we get much more out of him over the next 3 years, but while the 3 years is the window with Flacco, our draft strategy/FA strategy should be the same, build the team around the QB. Make the surroundings look more like the ones which Brady got when he became starter, the same with roethlisberger, Russel Wilson, Dak Prescott, and don't do it like the Colts with Luck or any other team who go QB first, then WR, rb, te and then oline in that order.

We most likely saw the best Flacco can be under Kubiak and Dennison, and while that is not the standard, it is the talent on offense we have to strive for if we want something to give this team a better balance.

[everlong]

9 hours ago, jrry32 said:

I can cherrypick too. Since 2010, Flacco in the playoffs:

10 games

196/327

59.6%

2563 yards

7.8 YPA

24 TDs

4 Ints

104.1 Passer Rating

Do you have any idea what an anomaly is? Here is Webster's definition: "something that deviates from what is standard, normal, or expected." Flacco's Super Bowl run fits that definition, hence why I factored it out.