EagleBlueDon Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 1 minute ago, salmar80 said: Ideally a backup and spot starter vs favorable matchups. A tall, speedy corner. A good matchup vs some types of WRs (tall possession types and straight line 9-route runners). Has trouble covering quick WRs with great change of direction skills (his combine 3-cone doesn't show in games). This leads to him getting beat on double moves when he starts overcompensating by anticipating hooks and comebacks. Sometimes shows effort in tackling and run support, often whiffs terribly. Certainly no receiver hands, and not physical at press. Got thrown at a LOT due to Jaire Alexander taking the other side away, sometimes did OK, sometimes less so. Thanks for the eval. Looking for CB2 opposite Slay in Philly. We're slated to run a lot of cover 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkronsWitness Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 1 hour ago, dtait93 said: Clowney sucks Exactly my point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkronsWitness Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 1 hour ago, LinebackerGod said: Yeah it does lol Getting pressure on the QB results in poor decisions, altered game plans, and turnovers. Getting sacks requires the QB to hold onto the football longer than he should. I’ll take pressures over sacks every day. “Getting home” is obviously nicer because a TFL is damning to an offense, but it also requires the QB to refuse to throw it away or hit his checkdown. Getting sacks is kind of flukey, just like INT’s. I don't know. Pressures and pass rush win rate are a secondary stats to me after Sacks, TFL and batted passes. Plus, sacks get players paid not pressures and that's for a reason. Sacks are essentially drive killers 8/10 times. Pressures can lead to turnovers but more times than not they don't, especially when your playing a top level QB. In today's NFL where nearly all of the great QBs are mobile and can easily avoid pressure or run away from it, pressures are even more diluted. They were more of a important stat when every QB was a pocket passing statue 10 years ago. A player (like Olivier Vernon) can force 70 pressures in a season and maybe 5 of those resulted in a forced incompletion. QBs nowadays are just too good to be that rattled unless your talking rookies or bottom tier starters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turnobili Posted March 23, 2021 Author Share Posted March 23, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minutemancl Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 9 minutes ago, Turnobili said: William Jackson, a worse corner than Adoree Jackson, signed for more than Jackson did and Sharp wrote a glowing review of the signing on his website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleBlueDon Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, minutemancl said: William Jackson, a worse corner than Adoree Jackson, signed for more than Jackson did and Sharp wrote a glowing review of the signing on his website. Is William Jackson a worse corner than Adoree? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minutemancl Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, EagleBlueDon said: Is William Jackson a worse corner than Adoree? The difference isn't enormous, but yes. I'd say Adoree is in the 15-20 range and William is in the 20-25 range. Edit: My point though is to point out Sharp's hypocrisy. We should have never let these nerds into football (I'm half joking). Dave Gettleman made fun of them years ago and they've been unable to be objective about the Giants since. Which would be totally fine if their whole shtick wasn't being objective. Edited March 23, 2021 by minutemancl 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKSteeler Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 48 minutes ago, LinebackerGod said: This has nothing to do with anything related to the argument. How does the fact that the top pass rushers consistently produce have nothing to do with the argument on the importance of sacks, especially when he called them somewhat fluky akin to interceptions? I don't think you actually read what was being argued. 49 minutes ago, Xenos said: 1 hour ago, CKSteeler said: Freeney was not overrated as a pass rusher. Sure don’t ask the guy to be reliable against the run, but very few pass rushers can make an OT sweat like Freeney. Freeney ended up with bulk stats over 15 seasons, but he only registered double digit sacks in 7 of 15 years. He was never as dominant as he was made out to be even in his prime on top of being a one trick pony. Mathis was probably a better overall player and ended up with just 2 fewer sacks in a slightly shorter career. Freeney was the most overhyped defender of his era thanks and it never stopped even as his production slipped because he had prominent talking heads like Madden and then Dungy singing his praises. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenos Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 12 minutes ago, CKSteeler said: How does the fact that the top pass rushers consistently produce have nothing to do with the argument on the importance of sacks, especially when he called them somewhat fluky akin to interceptions? I don't think you actually read what was being argued. Freeney ended up with bulk stats over 15 seasons, but he only registered double digit sacks in 7 of 15 years. He was never as dominant as he was made out to be even in his prime on top of being a one trick pony. Mathis was probably a better overall player and ended up with just 2 fewer sacks in a slightly shorter career. Freeney was the most overhyped defender of his era thanks and it never stopped even as his production slipped because he had prominent talking heads like Madden and then Dungy singing his praises. Tell HOF LTs like Jonathan Ogden and Orlando Pace that Freeney was overrated. Pace himself admits that Freeney was the toughest pass rusher that he ever faced. Maybe one day TJ Watt can come close to that status as a pass rusher. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.si.com/nfl/talkoffame/.amp/nfl/orlando-pace-toughest-guy-i-had-to-block-was-freeney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenos Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 51 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said: I don't know. Pressures and pass rush win rate are a secondary stats to me after Sacks, TFL and batted passes. Plus, sacks get players paid not pressures and that's for a reason. Sacks are essentially drive killers 8/10 times. Pressures can lead to turnovers but more times than not they don't, especially when your playing a top level QB. In today's NFL where nearly all of the great QBs are mobile and can easily avoid pressure or run away from it, pressures are even more diluted. They were more of a important stat when every QB was a pocket passing statue 10 years ago. A player (like Olivier Vernon) can force 70 pressures in a season and maybe 5 of those resulted in a forced incompletion. QBs nowadays are just too good to be that rattled unless your talking rookies or bottom tier starters. There’s a middle ground here somewhere. You cannot have a guy just get pressure and no sacks since he still needs to get home. But I do think that getting sacks does depend on circumstances. Scheme fit helps also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKSteeler Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 5 minutes ago, Xenos said: Tell HOF LTs like Jonathan Ogden and Orlando Pace that Freeney was overrated. Pace himself admits that Freeney was the toughest pass rusher that he ever faced. Maybe one day TJ Watt can come close to that status as a pass rusher. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.si.com/nfl/talkoffame/.amp/nfl/orlando-pace-toughest-guy-i-had-to-block-was-freeney Enough tackles figured out how his patented spin move to where he was getting like 5 sacks in 16 games in his prime. If TJ Watt performs like that over 16 games next year I'll rightly criticize him for it, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 44 minutes ago, minutemancl said: William Jackson, a worse corner than Adoree Jackson, signed for more than Jackson did and Sharp wrote a glowing review of the signing on his website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJM217 Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 Wow he is making more money in NY then he did in Ten. Im happy for him. He seems like a nice guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
y*so*blu Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 It's been an eventful week for sure. I'm super excited for this season and we still have the draft coming up. The Giants have addressed some major needs: WR1, CB2, and a TE who can catch. Much remains to be done (still need to build the o-line and get an edge rusher) but this is a terrific start IMO. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenos Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, CKSteeler said: Enough tackles figured out how his patented spin move to where he was getting like 5 sacks in 16 games in his prime. If TJ Watt performs like that over 16 games next year I'll rightly criticize him for it, too. That only happened one year during his prime which was 2006. He played only 9 games the next season. But then had double digit sacks again in 2008-2010. In 2011, he dropped down to 8.5 sacks again. So no, I don’t think enough tackles figured out his patented spin move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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