LinebackerGod Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 29 minutes ago, CKSteeler said: No, it really isn't. The Steelers have led the league in sacks for four consecutive seasons. Most of the double digit sack guys hover in that range. Sacks are no more fluky than TD passes. Pressures matter, but the notion that they are more important or more indicative of quality pass rush than sacks is nonsense. A quality pass rusher is usually getting pressures. Why aren't teams taking guys with consistently high pressure rates and falling over backwards to pay them like Mack? The guys who are always close but no cigar type players don't get paid like the top guys producing sacks. A sack is literally a pressure where the QB didn’t throw the ball away or check down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSUeagles14 Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 1 hour ago, HTTRDynasty said: Sacks are a terrible way to judge, especially as a predictive tool. Too much randomness. Giants were dead last in PRWR last year. Welp, Atlanta’s pass rush was objectively awful. Like beyond awful. Horrific even. But according to they’re good? Somethings wrong with this stat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKSteeler Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, LinebackerGod said: A sack is literally a pressure where the QB didn’t throw the ball away or check down. I don't know how you or whatever sources you use define a pressure, which is another issue with those metrics. They are arbitrary and based on the person watching. But it's entirely possible to get a pressure and the QB releases a TD pass still or a 50 yard bomb. So no, that isn't what a sack is on top of the fact that the sack is a loss of down on top of a loss of yardage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippyX Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 (edited) 12 sacks against Wentz and Dalton in 3 games. 4 per game Dalton 24 in 9 games Wentz 50 in 12 games In Wentz's last 8 games, both Giants games were the only times he did not go down 4+ times. (3 each) 28 sacks in 13 other games. 2.15 per game meh Edited March 23, 2021 by SkippyX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmar80 Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 I took a look at Jackson since he was an option for the Packers, and sure didn't see 26.5M guaranteed. More like a classic situtation for a 1-year prove-it deal. - Jackson missed 18 games over past 2 seasons due to injuries 🥶 - 2 total INTs in 52 career games 🤮 - Allowed passer ratings of 89.4 (2018), 94.3 (2019) and 145.8 (2020, just 3 games). Not even better than Kevin King's numbers 😬 - Titans knew him best, could've kept him on 10.2M 5th year option, had the cap space to do so, chose to cut him instead 🤔 Maybe there are Titans fans who can tell whether Adoree' looked deserving of this deal? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippyX Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 Just FYI. The Giants had 14 more QB hits with 51 fewer drop backs than Atlanta and 11 more TFL. I think win rate might be useful but overrated. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minutemancl Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 19 minutes ago, GSUeagles14 said: Welp, Atlanta’s pass rush was objectively awful. Like beyond awful. Horrific even. But according to they’re good? Somethings wrong with this stat. Nothing is 'wrong' with that stat, I just don't think its all that indicative of a team's overall pass rush ability. Like any single stat, you need context and a grain of salt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EaglesPeteC Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 I hate it here 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenos Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 1 hour ago, CKSteeler said: No, it really isn't. The Steelers have led the league in sacks for four consecutive seasons. Most of the double digit sack guys hover in that range. Sacks are no more fluky than TD passes. Pressures matter, but the notion that they are more important or more indicative of quality pass rush than sacks is nonsense. A quality pass rusher is usually getting pressures. Why aren't teams taking guys with consistently high pressure rates and falling over backwards to pay them like Mack? The guys who are always close but no cigar type players don't get paid like the top guys producing sacks. Dwight Freeney disagrees. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.si.com/.amp/nfl/2014/09/25/san-diego-chargers-dwight-freeney-film-study Quote “It’s not all about the sack. It’s a very misleading stat. I’ve always said it. I could get my *** kicked and get a sack. The game is watched from a different perspective, but not really from a defensive line versus offensive line perspective. The camera is always on the QB. It’s always on the high-profile stars. The dirty work—it takes a real student of the game to sit there and watch what’s going on. Do you have to dedicate two guys to block J.J. Watt? Well, they shut J.J. Watt out today! Did they really? Well, yeah, they did—they took two guys to freakin’ block him all damn game, but you best believe he had an impact on the game. They had to condense their game plan because of the way he plays." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleBlueDon Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 17 minutes ago, salmar80 said: I took a look at Jackson since he was an option for the Packers, and sure didn't see 26.5M guaranteed. More like a classic situtation for a 1-year prove-it deal. - Jackson missed 18 games over past 2 seasons due to injuries 🥶 - 2 total INTs in 52 career games 🤮 - Allowed passer ratings of 89.4 (2018), 94.3 (2019) and 145.8 (2020, just 3 games). Not even better than Kevin King's numbers 😬 - Titans knew him best, could've kept him on 10.2M 5th year option, had the cap space to do so, chose to cut him instead 🤔 Maybe there are Titans fans who can tell whether Adoree' looked deserving of this deal? What's your opinion on Kevin King? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKSteeler Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 7 minutes ago, Xenos said: Dwight Freeney disagrees. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.si.com/.amp/nfl/2014/09/25/san-diego-chargers-dwight-freeney-film-study I'm sure Dwight feels that way. He was one of the more overrated pass rushers to ever play the game. But for JJ Watt getting doubled hasn't stopped him from getting double digit sacks in every healthy season of his career outside his rookie season and 2020. Getting doubled doesn't stop Aaron Donald and it doesn't stop TJ Watt. That's why those guys are going to be paid top dollar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gmen Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 On paper the Giants have a top 5 secondary in the league, and the analytics community believes that this is the way to build a defense in 2021. Good secondary > good pass rushers. So I'm excited that the Giants have positioned themselves defensively to compete in today's league. The only thing really missing on this defense is a passrusher off the edge, and since we've addressed our other big needs in free agency, someone like Gregory Rousseau, Jayson Oweh or Kwity Paye make a lot of sense for the Giants. Would also expect them to try to draft a defensive tackle to replace Dalvin Tomlinson at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenos Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 8 minutes ago, CKSteeler said: I'm sure Dwight feels that way. He was one of the more overrated pass rushers to ever play the game. But for JJ Watt getting doubled hasn't stopped him from getting double digit sacks in every healthy season of his career outside his rookie season and 2020. Getting doubled doesn't stop Aaron Donald and it doesn't stop TJ Watt. That's why those guys are going to be paid top dollar. Freeney was not overrated as a pass rusher. Sure don’t ask the guy to be reliable against the run, but very few pass rushers can make an OT sweat like Freeney. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinebackerGod Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 10 minutes ago, CKSteeler said: He was one of the more overrated pass rushers to ever play the game. lol what? I hate that era of Indy, but Freeney was not overrated in any sense. He was arguably the best finesse pass rusher ever. Quote But for JJ Watt getting doubled hasn't stopped him from getting double digit sacks in every healthy season of his career outside his rookie season and 2020. Getting doubled doesn't stop Aaron Donald and it doesn't stop TJ Watt. That's why those guys are going to be paid top dollar. This has nothing to do with anything related to the argument. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmar80 Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 16 minutes ago, EagleBlueDon said: What's your opinion on Kevin King? Ideally a backup and spot starter vs favorable matchups. A tall, speedy corner. A good matchup vs some types of WRs (tall possession types and straight line 9-route runners). Has trouble covering quick WRs with great change of direction skills (his combine 3-cone doesn't show in games). This leads to him getting beat on double moves when he starts overcompensating by anticipating hooks and comebacks. Sometimes shows effort in tackling and run support, often whiffs terribly. Certainly no receiver hands, and not physical at press. Got thrown at a LOT due to Jaire Alexander taking the other side away, sometimes did OK, sometimes less so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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