Raiders sign WR Willie Snead

[Humble_Beast]

exactly I dont get all the gloom after a 8-8 season with a lousy defense and a hurt OL

[NYRaider]

8 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

Why? Didn't we say the same thing about Collins and Ross and Hurst and Hall and Ellis and Rubin and Wright and McDonald and Vanderdoes and Hester...and that's only at DT...over the last 4 years or so? 

Seems to me, at this rate, the odds are better that none of them pan out to be worthwhile than any one of them panning out to go alongside Hankins....

The defensive tackle market was pretty bad in free agency this year and the draft is also lacking on top tier DT prospects. Rod is supposed to be one of the best DL coaches in the league so lets see what he can do. 

I think there's major difference between the guys you mentioned and the guys we currently have on the roster. Jefferson has been solid over the last two seasons, Thomas has elite physical tools but played out of position in SF, and Irving has flashed elite traits.

[NYRaider]

10 minutes ago, Humble_Beast said:

our biggest weakness on defense and we attacked it in free agency. We brought in an elite edge rusher, and added alot of potential and spent resources to improve the DL. I like that approach then overpaying for a NT like Dalvin. Leonard Williams wasn't even an option

Agreed on Dalvin, you can get a similar player in Tyler Shelvin in the 3rd/4th round. 

[Jeremy408]

58 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

1. The 2017 Jaguars were 16th in run defense and their pass defense was considered one of the best of the last few decades. 

As someone who played Safety for most of my life prior to making a switch to Edge Rusher following a growth spirt, I too know the benefits of a shut down secondary. That's why there's a term for it: coverage sacks. 

2. Transcendent players overcome scheme issues. We see it all the time. 

3. This is blatantly false. 2016's Jaguar defense included: Posluzny, Cyprien still playing pretty decent, Telvin Smith, Jalen Ramsey, Prince Amukamara, Tashaun Gipson, Malik Jackson, Dante Fowler, Aaron Colvin, Myles Jack, Tyson Alualu, and Abry Jones. 

4. Yes, I know how old Alualu is. I also know his role teams was to be a stout run defender, which he has been fairly good at. He's not a sack demon. He's also a better DT than any that we currently have until they prove otherwise on the field. I'm not comparing Alualu and Yannick as individuals, I'm saying that a solid, legitimate NFL caliber DT would do more for our defense and player progression for a guy like Crosby than a stud player does. That's not some foreign concept, as I illustrated with Randy Moss. You don't build a team around a star, you find a star to complete a team. Why? Because you only need 1 or 2 stars with some decent supporting cast. A star in a garbage dump is just a star in a garbage dump. Yannick with bad DTs is going to be more hamstrung than Crosby would be with solid DT play. 

5. You say you don't say this to say he's a superstar, and follow up by saying he's going to help tremendously. Based on what, exactly? He has ALWAYS played with better secondaries and LB units, and typically with better D-lines, than we hav, yet produces about the same amount as Crosby. Our other pass rush is not even bad, it's totally nonexistent. If he helps that out, he's a superstar. What I see is a guy people are low key pimping as the next great Raider pash rusher, but don't have the cajones to make that statement outright because deep down they recognize he's nothing more than a gamble who has had the benefit of playing alongside some outright transcendent talent his entire career while hardly producing monster numbers, and only doing so because they "hope" he pans out as the "big" signing we wanted. You yourself have now consistently tried to argue he did so without a supporting cast like he will be here or downplay the effects of having top tier coverage play and functional DL cohorts, which isn't just flat out incorrect. As soon as you tried saying hiis rookie year was without a supporting cast, you tipped your hand that you're trying to make him out to be bigger than his record will support. He had a high point of 12 sacks, now 5 seasons ago. 6 seasons ago, Vic Beasley had 15.5 sacks. So continuing to harp on the past that much is a weak argument. 

6. Talent, or bodies? Because yeah, we have A TON of bodies at DT now (fun side note: literally, 2070 listed pounds) across 7 guys. At CB we have 7 guys too, with 2 that are proven guys worth keeping, a bunch of hopes and prayers, and Nevin Lawson who nobody missed. The same general group that was a major liability while we wait for everyone to take "the next step" (tick tock, tick tock, still waiting for Johnson to be a viable player 3 years on....🙄). Even Mullen, who I give credit to, regressed a bit last year. The list goes on and on. Anyone who thinks we only REALLY need a FS and a RT is out of their mind and hyped up on some Mayock juice, because nothing whatsoever indicates that we've improved anything. The Secondary and the DL are the two units EVERYONE agreed needed massive upgrades coming into the offseason, and now everyone is high on life over signing a bunch of nobodies? Seriously? And every critique is met with "Well, we're obviously going to sign Hooker or Boston, duh!" because....reasons? If I had a dollar for every time someone said we were just going to sign one guy or another, I'd retire, and maybe with enough to retire back stateside, which is saying something lol. 

1. I don’t know where you got the rushing defense of stats but here’s what I’m talking about: https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/team/_/view/defense/season/2017/seasontype/2/table/rushing/sort/rushingYardsPerGame/dir/asc

2. I’ve also played safety. But regardless of what defense of back position I’ve played any DB will tell you that when you only have the cover for four seconds or less you look a lot better than you actually are lol. Let me put it this way, what did the last four teams that have played in the Super Bowl have in common. They all have pass rushers. I don’t all have really good cornerbacks and really good safeties(take the Bucs for example) But they ALL can get to the quarterback. 
 

3. Of course transcendent players overcomes scheme issues. That’s what transcendent means LOL. But the reality is there’s not that many of those guys in the NFL.

4. I’m talking about in terms of pass rush which he played with  Tyson Alualu(2.5 sacks) Dante Fowler(4 sacks) Malik Jackson (6.5 sacks) and Arby(0 sacks).  Ngakoue(8 sacks) was clearly the lead dog in the pass rush department. That’s what I was referring to. Now you can argue whatever you want but since he’s been in the league, he has never had less than eight sacks in a season. He’s the only one to do that with anyone he’s played on the same team with(he’s played on three teams)think about that. 

5. We don’t really need a 34 year old run stopping  Dt  we already have a 29-year-old run stopping dt(Jonathan Hankins). What we need is interior pass rush.

6. OK I don’t know if you realize this but last year Max Crosby was the sack leader of the Raiders with seven sacks. Do you know who is second in sacks on the entire team? It was Nicholas Morrow with 3. Or that it’s a three-way tie for two sacks lol. With that being said, It’s simple how he’s going to make the defense better: if he just simply produces eight sacks(which is never done less then his entire time in the league) and let’s say Crosby produces 7 sacks again that automatically helps the past rash get better and takes pressure off of the interior(where we have definitely gotten more talented so we can see if that talent turns into production)and allows the interior rushers to have more one on one match ups making the overall pass rush better. When the quarterback has less time to throw it’s easier for the defense of backs to make stops and even sometimes when the passer is affected it can lead to more turnovers. even when he’s not getting to the quarterback he’s also getting a ton of pressure like I think I’ve shown you earlier.

Like I mentioned before, free safety and right tackle are the only positions that we don’t have a player that we haven’t  signed or drafted to be the starter at those positions. 

7. Well actually no concerning the DT situation i’m not referring to how many numerically I’m talking about the talent level is clearly better than it was before. Last year we were relying on Malik Collins (Who we basically handed the job) and Maurice hurst who can’t stay healthy. Neither can stop the run. Enter David Irving (who Once had seven sacks in eight games before leaving the NFL because he likes to smoke weed), Solomon Thomas(former third overall pick who wasn’t used at the position that got him third overall pick recognition) Quinton Jefferson who at the very least Is a good depth of peace ensuring that were never in the dt  situation we were in last year where we don’t have a dt for stretches of the season. 

8. I wasn’t one of the people who said we should pick up a free agent corner. I agree that Mullen regressed and that Arnette didn’t play well (in the limited time he did play) by the way. Answer is how do we fix the problem. I was always in the state of mind that we need to allow the young players in the secondary to play under a real coach The system that actually is conducive to their skill set.

Edited March 27, 2021 by Jeremy408

[Jeremy408]

54 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Not to mention we just spent early picks on Arnette and Mullen. You have to have some faith in the process and trust that your guys will improve. 

I also agree that allocating less money to WR's was smart. Ruggs/Edwards didn't play very well but it's way too early to give up on them. Brown is an upgrade over Agholor and Snead is a similar player to Agholor coming onto the team. 

As you mentioned Kwit and Morrow played well, plus Littleton played at an All-Pro level in the previous two seasons before he got here. I think it's funny that Frankie will criticize Littleton after one bad year in a new scheme when he has proven to be a good player in 2018/2019. But love Rankins who has injury issues and hasn't played well in 2 years. I think Littleton will play much better in Bradley's scheme. 

The interior pass rush will need to be better but we took chances on 3 guys with potential. We literally signed Thomas, Irving, and Jefferson for the same amount that the Jets paid Rankins. 

What I’ve noticed on here is that The popular logic is that if somebody doesn’t play good their rookie year or first year on the team they should be replaced by a free agent or a first rounder should be drafted to take their place. Then they are quick to call that player a free agent or draft a bust right after. 

[NYRaider]

Just now, Jeremy408 said:

What I’ve noticed on here is that The popular logic is that if somebody doesn’t play good their rookie year or first year on the team they should be replaced by a free agent or a first rounder should be drafted to take their place. Then they are quick to call that player a free agent or draft a bust right after. 

Yeah, good teams are built through the draft. Look at all of the FA signings we've made since Gruden returned, how well have those guys played?

[Jeremy408]

2 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Yeah, good teams are built through the draft. Look at all of the FA signings we've made since Gruden returned, how well have those guys played?

I guess that’s why I’m here to be at odds with a lot of people here. Like For me it’s pretty obvious that Mullen(2019 2nd rounder) and Arnette(2020 1st rounder) are going to be the starting corners. But when I state the obvious people think I’m crazy LOL. 
 

Of course we’re going to play the two linebacker free agents that we just signed last year as well as the guy we brought back. I don’t see why that’s so complicated lol

Realistically the things that we don’t have either 1. a player that we signed to play the position or 2. A player that we drafted high to play the position are RT and FS. It’s that simple

[ronjon1990]

47 minutes ago, Humble_Beast said:

exactly I dont get all the gloom after a 8-8 season with a lousy defense and a hurt OL

Probably the still lousy defense and 3 new full time starters on the OL, while hoping Ritchie holds up 🤷🏼‍♂️

[NYRaider]

5 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said:

I guess that’s why I’m here to be at odds with a lot of people here. Like For me it’s pretty obvious that Mullen(2019 2nd rounder) and Arnette(2020 1st rounder) are going to be the starting corners. But when I state the obvious people think I’m crazy LOL. 

Of course we’re going to play the two linebacker free agents that we just signed last year as well as the guy we brought back. I don’t see why that’s so complicated lol

Realistically the things that we don’t have either 1. a player that we signed to play the position or 2. A player that we drafted high to play the position are RT and FS. It’s that simple

I agree, Mullen and Arnette will be our starting CB's next season. I'd still like to add a veteran to the group though. 

Agreed. Littleton and Kwit will get a chance to play in Bradley's scheme and Morrow played well. Kwit played well and Littleton played very well in his final 2 seasons with the Rams. 

[NYRaider]

3 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

Probably the still lousy defense and 3 new full time starters on the OL, while hoping Ritchie holds up 🤷🏼‍♂️

As far as our defense is concerned we just have to have faith that our young guys take a step up and that Bradley's scheme is more effective. 

We had a different starting OL almost every week and still had a top 10 offense. 

[Jeremy408]

Just now, NYRaider said:

I agree, Mullen and Arnette will be our starting CB's next season. I'd still like to add a veteran to the group though. 

Agreed. Littleton and Kwit will get a chance to play in Bradley's scheme and Morrow played well. Kwit played well and Littleton played very well in his final 2 seasons with the Rams. 

I can at least understand signing a veteran CB but it’s not a requirement for me. FS is what really matters.
 

Also we’re losing our minds about incognito playing guard as if we didn’t draft Simpson last year to eventually replace him. 

[ronjon1990]

28 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said:

I guess that’s why I’m here to be at odds with a lot of people here. Like For me it’s pretty obvious that Mullen(2019 2nd rounder) and Arnette(2020 1st rounder) are going to be the starting corners. But when I state the obvious people think I’m crazy LOL. 
 

Of course we’re going to play the two linebacker free agents that we just signed last year as well as the guy we brought back. I don’t see why that’s so complicated lol

Realistically the things that we don’t have either 1. a player that we signed to play the position or 2. A player that we drafted high to play the position are RT and FS. It’s that simple

I don't think anyone says someone is crazy for stating Mullen and Arnette will be our starting 2 CBs (short of signing someone to play outside and sliding Arnette into the slot, but we play our 3rd CB enough that even if Arnette was moved there, your premise is still fundamentally correct).

What people might call crazy is anyone being 100% on board and comfortable with those two going forward and expecting progression from them for the simple reason that they play more. Both were lackluster for most of the year, if not outright bad at times in regards to Arnette. 

The problem most would have with that is it's particularly heavy on presumptions that "guys (magically) will improve and how dare you question that premise even if the player(s) have shown little to no viable improvement to begin with". 

Our secondary was utter garbage last year. So bad that even a little improvement that's more guaranteed still has us fielding a historically pitiful D. It wouldn't take just a sprinkle of improvement glitter for our secondary to improve, it's going to take Salt Bae level of sprinkle power. That's a huge leap of blind faith. 

Edited March 27, 2021 by ronjon1990

[Jeremy408]

9 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

I don't think anyone says someone is crazy for stating Mullen and Arnette will be our starting 2 CBs (short of signing someone to play outside and sliding Arnette into the slot, but we play our 3rd CB enough that even if Arnette was moved there, you're premise is still fundamentally correct).

What people might call crazy is anyone being 100% on board and comfortable with those two going forward and expecting progression from them for the simple reason that they play more. Both were lackluster for most of the year, if not outright bad at times in regards to Arnette. 

The problem most would have with that is it's particularly heavy on presumptions that "guys (magically) will improve and how dare you question that premise even if the player(s) have shown little to no viable improvement to begin with". 

Our secondary was utter garbage last year. So bad that even a little improvement that's more guaranteed still has us fielding a historically pitiful D. It wouldn't take just a sprinkle of improvement glitter for our secondary to improve, it's going to take Salt Bae level of sprinkle power. That's a huge leap of blind faith. 

But that’s what I mean. Are you saying you don’t expect them to improve based on the premise that they showed little improvement last year? For me that statement doesn’t make sense for a player like Arnette because he didn’t play long enough to improve. 
 

And again when talking about how bad the secondary is, we can ignore the lack of pass rush. Our sack leader had 7 sacks; a linebacker that had three sacks was second. So as one improves we should see another improve naturally. It’s not this way out there idea.

Edited March 27, 2021 by Jeremy408

[reddevil]

Classic FFRaiders thread. Same old arguments and with good reason. 

Trying to find some middle ground with this - I think both sides are essentially right. We have to trust our coaches to develop the young players. There is little else we can do as we can’t sign FAs to replace every underperforming draft pick from the last couple of years because a) we don’t know what we have in them yet and b) there’s so damn many of them!

So realistically, that’s the only choice we have and therein lies the problem:

We fans have seen little evidence to suggest that our coaches can regularly take young players and develop them into quality, consistent starters that produce at a high enough level to help the team win.

And this is why we all clamour for FAs who have proven to have some success to come here and hope that they can reproduce that success with us and possibly elevate those around them. This, like hoping our young players improve, like hoping we luck into some impactful draft picks is what we do every year and will continue to until we actually win. 

Hope - it’s all we have!

So anyway....Willie Snead

[reddevil]

Just one thing that we don’t talk about that much and in relation to the ‘we were 3 plays from 5-11 or 3 plays from 11-5’.....and that’s momentum and the confidence of a team. So much of the discussion is around the quality or lack thereof of the players or the coaches. But I think it can often be down to something a bit more complex - which is the mental make up of the collective at a given moment.

And I’m not talking about the individual character of the players or leadership (though those qualities are important in building confidence and momentum). You see it time and again in sport. In football (soccer to you lot!), you see teams that don’t necessarily have the best players go on winning runs which see them sustain them all the way to winning or becoming successful. Leicester a few years ago won the premier league on the back of this. Many teams have cup runs in much the same way.

I think this is what was the most disappointing aspect of last season for me. That we went on a run, built momentum and seemed to have confidence and then it all fell apart. We weren’t able to grab the opportunity and these things can come down to really small things - sometimes luck, but often not seizing the moment. And this is where I blame Gruden as he seemed to lose his confidence and became all too conservative, the team followed suit and we lost all the momentum we had established.

I suppose what I’m saying is that we can argue all we want about whether the roster has enough quality or if the coaches can improve individuals or if we made the right draft pick, but what we need more than anything is to find that positive team mentality.