2022 NFL Draft Thread

[Jeremy408]

5 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

I wouldn't be opposed to shuffling the O-line at this point. It can't get a whole lot worse, and it's not like we have to stick with any changes. 

The ONLY thing I can say about moving Leatherwood to G is that if it works, do it. But I'd put the brass on firm notice that they blew a 1st rounder on a G, and that's not going to cut it. 

We've seriously got to knock it off with the reaches and taking guys we plan on having switch positions, especially early or mid- draft. 

Right the only way this works is it Brandon Parker balls out(which is highly unlikely because that's why you drafted a right tackle in the first place)

The issue remains if leatherwood is an all pro guard you don't draft guards in the first round

[BayRaider]

13 hours ago, NYRaider said:

Buckner seem(ed)(s) to be a good defensively line coach and we let him go. I'd personally just rather reach for upside over guys with high floors, particularly early in the draft. 

I disagree. This DL is performing way better under Rod. Someof the best DL play we’ve ever had. Everyone just expected Rod to work miracles his first season. 

[NYRaider]

1 minute ago, BayRaider said:

I disagree. This DL is performing way better under Rod. Someof the best DL play we’ve ever had. Everyone just expected Rod to work miracles his first season. 

The defensive line was significantly worse in 2020 with almost the same group. They've been better this season but Thomas, Jefferson, Philon, and Yannick were all acquired this off-season. Crosby has looked better but he hasn't had a sack since week 1 and Ferrell has 2 tackles through the first 4 games. So who has Rod really "coached up" for us?

[BayRaider]

Just now, NYRaider said:

The defensive line was significantly worse in 2020 with almost the same group. They've been better this season but Thomas, Jefferson, Philon, and Yannick were all acquired this off-season. Crosby has looked better but he hasn't had a sack since week 1 and Ferrell has 2 tackles through the first 4 games. So who has Rod really "coached up" for us?

Rod is a legend. They were adjusting to his style in 2020. Plus the DL still sucked in 2019, you are just going off of Maxx’s 10 sacks. Buckner is just an extremely generic DL coach. Does he even have a job right now?

[NYRaider]

3 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

Rod is a legend. They were adjusting to his style in 2020. Plus the DL still sucked in 2019, you are just going off of Maxx’s 10 sacks. Buckner is just an extremely generic DL coach. Does he even have a job right now?

Buckner is the Cardinals defensive line coach, seems to be working out pretty well for them. Rod had Key/Hurst for a year they both got cut, Crosby actually got worse in year 2, and Ferrell is literally a bench warmer after 2 years with Rod. He hasn't coached up any of our young DL, almost all of our DL production has been from guys we signed in FA. 

[NCOUGHMAN]

52 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Buckner is the Cardinals defensive line coach, seems to be working out pretty well for them. Rod had Key/Hurst for a year they both got cut, Crosby actually got worse in year 2, and Ferrell is literally a bench warmer after 2 years with Rod. He hasn't coached up any of our young DL, almost all of our DL production has been from guys we signed in FA. 

I was about to say Ari doing ok last time I checked

[NYRaider]

2 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

I was about to say Ari doing ok last time I checked

Rod developed top 5 pick Ferrell from left bench to water boy.

[roi34]

crosby ranked as a top end. sacks come.. it wasn't due to lack of pressure

[NCOUGHMAN]

14 minutes ago, roi34 said:

crosby ranked as a top end. sacks come.. it wasn't due to lack of pressure

Plus he was playing thru an injury 

[NYRaider]

28 minutes ago, roi34 said:

crosby ranked as a top end. sacks come.. it wasn't due to lack of pressure

Crosby is good but he was good as a rookie, he had 10 sacks. What DL have we had with Rod on the staff that have gotten better? Ferrell was a top 5 pick and can't even play.

[OnlyGlove]

Before reading the thread, are we all on Tyler Limderbaum?

I think he could be a blue chip centre.  

[drfrey13]

4 hours ago, Jeremy408 said:

Here is some thing I will say: say they put Leatherwood at right guard and they put Brandon Parker at right tackle and he somehow has a breakout year(which is extremely unlikely), I would have no problem with Leatherwood being a right guard for the next 10 years simply because Brandon Parker is fairly young(and it would mean that he somehow panned out after like four years lol)

Also the same applies to Elumanor who was actually right tackle before the season and is also only 26 years old

My overall thing is we can't go back into next year with RT being a draft need again or Mayock(who I support) needs to be fired

I am not going to defend Mayock but I can say with 99% certainty that Mayock had almost zero input on Leatherwood.  That was all Gruden and Cable.  Cable is not telling Mayock I need a RT and Mayock decides to spend it on Leatherwood.  We all know Gruden has final say and Cable has Gruden's ear.

[Mr Raider]

3 hours ago, NYRaider said:

The defensive line was significantly worse in 2020 with almost the same group. They've been better this season but Thomas, Jefferson, Philon, and Yannick were all acquired this off-season. Crosby has looked better but he hasn't had a sack since week 1 and Ferrell has 2 tackles through the first 4 games. So who has Rod really "coached up" for us?

I mean in fairness, I don't think it's at all realistic or fair to compare the DL play last season to this year and put it all on Rod. 

He's a defensive line coach that last year wasn't able to actually coach the players on the field for mini camp, training camp, or presason. A lot of players will say that is when most of the coaching when it comes to technique and stuff is taught. During the season it's all about game plans and such. They expect the off season to be the time guys see improvement in fundamentals, get stronger, etc. The regular season is about maintaining, x's and o's and staying healthy. 

Rod has a long enough history that we shouldn't be questioning him all that much. He's proven throughout his career if he is given a unit that isn't totally void of actual talent that he will get a productive pass rush. Is he an elite DL coach? It's so hard to say. I'm sure there are some out there better. But players regularly praise his coaching ability, he's had a lot of successful pass rushes.

For me personally Crosby year one looked like a potential all pro guy, last year he looked like a very high end designated pass rusher but not a building block, and through 4 games to this point he has been jumping off the screen looking very much like a pro bowl caliber end. Yannick has always had a pedigree as a very good NFL rusher, but he is coming off probably his worst season where he bounced around a couple teams and in large part (IMO) because of being on 3 rosters in such a short period of time he didn't provide his best performance wise. But not hard to see why. Hard to get comfortable in a situation and preform your best in that situation. You then have Thomas who is one of the bigger busts in the past decade, that has been playing the best football of his entire career throug 4 games here. Really doing a good job of getting interior pressure, has gotten a couple sacks already (never even had 5 in a season previously) and in comparison to his reps some impressive consistency of pressure. Rotating in with him at 3T is Darius Philon who is seeing significant snaps for us on the interior and also has 2 sacks in 4 games. His career high being 4.5. Not only that, but he's also doing it while seeing his first NFL action in like 3 years. The other guy on the interior is Jefferson who has a sack of his own. So through 4 games the 3 guys tasked with getting penetration and sacking the QB have 5.5 sacks. Compare that to last season when the interior got 3.5 sacks ALL SEASON (2 for Vickers, 1 for Hankins, .5 for Hurst).

Then on the edge you have Crosby with 2 sacks so far, Nassib with 1.5, and that is it. But those numbers don't even begin to tell the whole story. I don't have them in front of me, but the overall pressure numbers and the pressure percentage is drastically improved over last season. Yannick has been a terror for large stretches and although he doesn't have a sack he just as easily could have 2-4 himself. A large part he doesn't have a sack is because for the first time in ages the pass rush is working as a complimentary unit. Yannick, Crosby, and Nassib are beating guys on the edge and pressuring the QB into stepping up in the pocket, and Thomas, Philon, Jefferson are winning their match-ups with significantly more consistency than our DTs of the past and the outside pressure and winning their match ups are converting that edge pressure into interior sacks. And vice versa with interior pressure forcing the QB back or outside where our ends can take wider rushes and gain the advantage. I mean heck, Nassib looks like a totally different player through 4 games. He has 1.5 sacks in 4 games this season compared to 2.5 all of last season. 

I don't think it's particularly arguable that Rod has been doing a tremendous job this year. The DL was bad last year, but when you compare the overall raw athletic ability and talent of a DL last year of Crosby, Ferrell, Nassib, Collins Hurst, Vickers, Hankins to that of Crosby, Yannick (one of the best pure pass rushers over the past 5 years or so), Nassib back as a #3 end instead of #2 edge pass rushing threat, Ferrell virtually not playing, Thomas who has been a bust but is an elite athlete for DT and a former top 5 pick, Philon, Jefferson (both of whom have shown significantly more than Hurst ever showed even in limited playing time). So yeah, the DL this year is more naturally talented. I don't think it's breaking new ground to say positional coaches will look better with better talent, but its not like people thought Thomas, Philon, Jefferson, and Nassib were guys that were going to be any good. Collins was viewed much more favorably to any guy on the interior prior to playing last year. Rod isn't a guy that can take a team with one legitimately good pass rusher and a bunch of other athletically limited players and make them an elite unit. But the biggest part in my eyes is that he can't take that talent and do much of anything when he can't even work with them hands on in the off season. How much teaching can you do with no camp, preseason, practice, etc and when you do get hands on with them the roster has already been decided and you have to install game plans and such?

To say that Rod has done anything less than a fantastic job to this point is really underselling what he's done. Thomas has been viewed as a mega bust, a guy many thought would be out of the league completely before he turned 27. He has now taken him, put him in a position to succeed and has him on pace for double digit sacks on the interior. He has done virtually the same thing with a guy that has saw zero action in over 2 years. He's got Crosby playing the best ball of his career regardless of numbers. He has Yannick looking like a great signing, and if I told you that would be the case in spite of him having 0 sacks before the season you would have said I was crazy. It's quite clear to me that Rod can get all the untapped talent out of guys, he can get the DL working as a unit playing together and making eachother better, and he can take a group of guys that have talent but haven't lived up to it and get a very very productive unit. But to do so he's going to actually have some time where he can get hands on and coach them, and the players have to buy in and play within themselves and do what is being asked of them. 

[NYRaider]

16 minutes ago, Mr Raider said:

I mean in fairness, I don't think it's at all realistic or fair to compare the DL play last season to this year and put it all on Rod. 

TLDR 

But I'm not putting it all on Rod, I'm just saying that for as much hype as he has received as some legendary coach it hasn't really shown in our young players. Ferrell is a non-factor, Key/Hurst/Hall all got cut, and Crosby has improved but how much can be attributed to Rod? He was good as a rookie. Our FA additions like Thomas, Jefferson, and Philon have all flashed and made plays but how much of that is Rod vs Gus? Philon was a Bradley guy and Jefferson played in Seattle so he knew the system prior to signing here. We've also blitzed less than any team in the league but have been able to get home more this year with 4 in Gus' system. 

[NYRaider]

1 hour ago, OnlyGlove said:

Before reading the thread, are we all on Tyler Limderbaum?

I think he could be a blue chip centre.  

He's very good but 1st round is pretty rich for a center. Ideally we'll bench James soon and Martin can play okay. The worst part about us demolishing our OL is that the Chiefs did the same thing but were able to rebuild it almost instantly while we've struggled. Creed Humphrey has played at a Pro Bowl level as a rookie, Trey Smith has been a good starter as a 6th round pick, Orlando Brown is proving to be worth the trade price, and Thuney is one of the best guards in the league.