Post Ben QB...

[mwalker]

Love the draft grade debates, but thought this might be an interesting 
topic to get everyone's point of view on. Of course it's too early to know 
what the real options are, but hey, it's interesting anyway.

Post Ben, what do you think is the most exciting scenario for QB?

On the roster:

M.Rudolph - I'm far from convinced. I just don't see him as the guy.
D.Haskins - man, what a story it would be if he grew and lived up to his potential
(it'd also make me really nervous)

Draft:

Here's an early list of who most rank best:

S.Howell, NC - looks like the most proven pocket passer, but is also mobile. 
S.Rattler, OU - a new prototype with huge potential. big arm. a star since he was 14.
D.Ridder, Cin - Almost came out this year. Prototype 'dual threat'. This year will show a lot (as a passer).
K.Slovis, USC - looks like he could be a pretty decent one, but we'll see this year.
M.Willis, Liberty - more athlete than passer, but does put up big numbers.
C.Strong, Nev - Could be a bit of a sleeper. Pocket guy. Could rise up.
J.Daniels, Geo - former five star could rise or drop depending on what he does this year.
P.Jurkovec, BC - Big guy. Depends on this year.
J.Daniels, ASU - not convinced, but he definitely has talent. Let's see this year. Skinny.
M.Corral, OLEM - again, not convinced, but he's put up some numbers. Lotta picks.

NFL FAs:

L.Jackson or J.Allen - ain't happening
B.Mayfield or J.Winston - can't see it. If they're good this year no reason they won't stick, if not who wants them
C.Newton - no
S.Darnold - if he's a good this season, he'll be signing a new deal, if not, nothing to see here.
The others seem like retreads - Fitz, Taylor, Dalton. Ugh.

I'd add that a couple options might be trade candidates:

D.Carr, Oak
J.Love, GB

The holy ****, no way:

D.Watson - can't see it and his entire career is likely in doubt.

So, what's most exciting?

I really like S.Howell and S.Rattler - but we'd have to have a real terrible season to have a shot.

C.Strong and D.Ridder could be interesting.

Thoughts?



 

[jebrick]

Kind of confused as to why Tyler Shough is not on the list.  He is playing at Texas Tech this season so we will see but he looks good in limited action with the caveat that the Oregon system makes good college QBs but not good pro QBs.  Texas Tech will be a more pro style so we will see.

Edited May 6, 2021 by jebrick

[43M]

Jameis Winston isnt a long term starting QB.     He never will be.   At best he will be a decent stop gap for the Saints, but I have almost no doubt the Saints will be looking for a QB next year.    I guess Payton COULD make him better, but he just isnt a smart QB.  

My point is...I think the Saints will be looking for a QB next year, so he will likely be an option.   I think the Steelers would rather have 40 year old Ben back than Winston, but if Ben hangs em up....the option might be there.

Andy Dalton I could see us signing.    Obviously, not ideal....but they will definitely sign a vet, and if there arent many feasible options....it could happen.

One QB I could see being available next year is Kirk Cousins.   He could be a decent hold over option....but several teams would likely be out to get him.

A more far fetched chance is Matt Ryan....but highly unlikely he would end up here.

[mwalker]

58 minutes ago, jebrick said:

Kind of confused as to why Tyler Shough is not on the list.  He is playing at Texas Tech this season so we will see but he looks good in limited action with the caveat that the Oregon system makes good college QBs but not good pro QBs.  Texas Tech will be a more pro style so we will see.

Good call. That's just an overlsight by me. Shough could go up or down quite a bit with all that natural size.

Edited May 6, 2021 by mwalker

[AFF]

Unless I looked at their deals wrong I think Ryan and Cousins are pretty much uncuttable the next 2 seasons.

With Rudolphonly getting a 1 year $4 mill deal, the Steelers aren’t even guaranteeing him a shot at the qb job(if it opens up after this year)...should be interesting.

[Cbrunn]

I'm most intrigued by Willis 

And as well as someone who might be around when we draft (preferably 32 but most likely in the later half of the 1st Rd)

[August4th]

A-rod or Wilson 👀

I can those guys wanting to play for rooney/tomlin, especially if the O-line/Canada have positive years

[Dcash4]

I think there are 2 different ways to view building around a QB:

- Invest in your offensive staff, your coach is the most important piece of the organization. Think Arthur Smith in Tennessee, Brian Daboll in Buffalo, Andy Reid, McVay, Shannahan, etc. The offenses will be successful regardless of QB. You don't need a top tier one because the coaching will elevate you, but the better they are the better you will be (See: Reid, Andy)

Problem with that style? We have Mike Tomlin. I am not trying to bash Tomlin, but any successful offensive coordinator is gone within 1-2 years. It's just the way of the world (also why I wouldn't have extended Tomlin after Daboll and Bieniemy ultimately got passed up) to leave this option open with two of the top names on the market. 

- Invest heavily in your QB. Think top 5 pick, massive trade (Wilson, Rodgers, etc). You are going to spend big whether its financial or asset, but the QB will drive the bus. 

Problem with this style? You don't fall into these picks if you...ya know, have a good team. It means you are mortgaging the future in the draft or financially strapping yourself and in some cases doing both. 

My preference would be option 1 in today's NFL and where we annually end up picking in the draft...but with a head coach already here, its hard to imagine that scenario works. So I do think we are stuck with option 2, which is harder to pull off because you NEED the talent. 

 

[CKSteeler]

2 hours ago, Dcash4 said:

You don't need a top tier one because the coaching will elevate you, but the better they are the better you will be (See: Reid, Andy)

We haven't really seen any of these supposed offensive gurus move on from their QB's until this off-season with St. Louis and the 49ers. And even in both cases, they invested heavily into the position with one team going for an upper level veteran option and the other using a top 3 pick on it. So, it's hard to say just how much is coaching and how much is the player. But when Shanahan lost Garappolo they didn't just march on without him.

The Bills weren't anything resembling an offensive power house until this year when Allen clearly upped his game (looked like a completely different player for the most part).

All of this is to say that no one has really had the balls to just rely on coaching up the position. Everyone invests heavily into it, even teams with the supposed offensive geniuses at the helm. Mahomes was two first rounders. 49ers gave up, what, 3 to move up? McVay gave up 2 and Goff to get Stafford.

Edited May 6, 2021 by CKSteeler

[Dcash4]

1 hour ago, CKSteeler said:

We haven't really seen any of these supposed offensive gurus move on from their QB's until this off-season with St. Louis and the 49ers.

What I am saying is not about the talent investment or the ability to move from one to another in terms of QB talent...it’s about the ability to maintain a sustainable offense in an offensive world regardless of that talent being mediocre - specifically at the most important position in the game.

Goff is average. McVay can continue to keep that offense operating at high levels with mediocre talent and an overwhelmingly average QB. Doesn’t matter where he was taken in the draft...he’s average. Shannahan can continue to produce in an offense that also isn’t star studded with guys like CJ Bernard and Nick Mullins. Not even mentioning getting to a superbowl with supremely mediocre Jimmy G (much like McVay w/ Goff). 

The Eagles offensive staff (not just Pederson) winning a super bowl with Foles. Andy Reid averaging 10 wins a season with Alex Smith. What Kevin Stefanski did with Baker last year. What Sean Payton did with Taysom Hill, and what he had done with backup qbs in general. Good offensive coaches give you a baseline of success with limited to average and non-traditional talents which allows you to put resources elsewhere on your roster (Rams with Donald and Ramsey, that 49er defense, the Cheifs top dollar investment in defense). 

Teams have seen just how much that floor of success raises when you pair a Patrick Mahomes type player with an Andy Reid type coach. Hence the moves you are talking about towards the end. But the moves were well established team rosters will well established coaches. We are not at that spot as we have no clue what Canada will be like and are at the end of our QBs cycle. And if Canada has success with Tomlin as head coach, Canada will be taking a HC role somewhere and we will be back at square one. 

Again my comment is about setting a baseline of success for the future and I think there’s two ways to do that. Get the next Ben Roethlisberger who will have success despite the talent and coaching changes around him (extremely difficult and gigantically luck induced) or get the coaching staff that will have a baseline of success despite the talent at QB and on the offensive side of the ball (not as difficult, though by no means easy). 

[bigben07MVP]

I’m probably alone in this thinking but unless we get Rattler next year, I would like to see us go into 2022 with Mason/Haskins and a vet like Jameis Winston on a 1 year deal and then target our QB in the 2023 draft. 

I want to see DJ Uiagalelei in black and gold. If not him, Bryce Young and and CJ Stroud could both be great options as well. 

[Dcash4]

1 hour ago, bigben07MVP said:

I’m probably alone in this thinking but unless we get Rattler next year, I would like to see us go into 2022 with Mason/Haskins and a vet like Jameis Winston on a 1 year deal and then target our QB in the 2023 draft. 

I want to see DJ Uiagalelei in black and gold. If not him, Bryce Young and and CJ Stroud could both be great options as well. 

I truly feel like I have seen enough of Mason to know what he is, and while I strongly am opposed to him being our starting QB....IMO it 100% rests in the hands, er, the head of Matt Canada. 

Following the process of what I said above, if Canada looks like he know what he is doing then I would be okay giving Mason an opportunity to be that average QB with a good coordinator. If Mason/Canada fails, they probably fail in the direction of a top 10 pick....which ultimately helps the reset button. 

But if Canada looks like the real deal I am okay with it. Any other way, I am strongly against Mason. 

[DR43]

Why did Haskins failed so badly in DC?  Could it have been the way he was used?

[VigilantZombie]

I see us really struggling to find a replacement for Ben for a defense seasons . That one year extension for Mason was a stop gap decision imo. 

[MOSteelers56]

4 hours ago, wwhickok said:

I see us really struggling to find a replacement for Ben for a defense seasons . That one year extension for Mason was a stop gap decision imo. 

Without a massive trade up it's going to be really hard to get a good prospect. Unless we can find some Russell Wilson/Dak Prescott type of dude(which is becoming increasingly more difficult) in the mid rounds, it's got to be a trade up. Our defense/offensive skill guys are too good to allow us to finish low enough to pick one. I agree with you.

I'm also not completely against Mason, but I don't think it's likely he ever becomes much.