UPDATE: Morgan Moses Released! Geron Christian too!

[lavar703]

8 minutes ago, RSkinGM said:

Pay cut? Did they ask Moses to take a pay cut? I haven't seen that . I did read he asked for guaranteed money for the final two years  and Rivera is old school. You signed the contract-Play out the contract .

People seem to have this big issue with players asking for their money to be guaranteed which I simply do not understand? All of these contracts should be guaranteed. 

[RSkinGM]

5 minutes ago, lavar703 said:

People seem to have this big issue with players asking for their money to be guaranteed which I simply do not understand? All of these contracts should be guaranteed. 

HA ! Yeah, all mine were-what about yours ?🙄 Kinda takes away the incentive to work hard . 

[lavar703]

38 minutes ago, RSkinGM said:

HA ! Yeah, all mine were-what about yours ?🙄 Kinda takes away the incentive to work hard . 

Why is this such a big issue amongst fans? It’s no different then what the dolphins did to Van Noy. Signs a big contract but gets cut after one year even though he played well. He earned his money but still didn’t get it so I still have no idea what the argument against guaranteed contracts is when the NBA and MLB does it? 

[RSkinGM]

13 minutes ago, lavar703 said:

Why is this such a big issue amongst fans? It’s no different then what the dolphins did to Van Noy. Signs a big contract but gets cut after one year even though he played well. He earned his money but still didn’t get it so I still have no idea what the argument against guaranteed contracts is when the NBA and MLB does it? 

Smaller rosters ?? I don't have a good answer . 

[turtle28]

Contracts should be guaranteed but they aren’t. If the players ever wanted fully guaranteed contracts they’d have to go on strike for it and given how much money most of the players make, I doubt they’d ever go on strike for it. 
 

I Remember how many fans hated Cousins for asking for fully guaranteed contracts and they still hate him for that.

We really don’t know what was said, or even if that’s the true reason we just know it could be ‘a’ reason. 
 

I think it’s more that we upgraded the LT position by signing Leno, we still have Lucas who can play RT and LT plus, we drafted Cosmi who they think can play both LT & RT. I think they view Cosmi as Moses’s replacement on this roster.
 

I like Moses but I don’t really understand some people’s reactions like it would be the end of the world if he was traded away, he’s been very up and down for us since we drafted him. I think a lot of people have overrated Moses as I have as well at times. This isn’t the equivalent to losing Trent Williams. It’s not the end of the world if he’s traded away and Cosmi may end up being better than Moses if he wins the job over Lucas to be our RT this year.

Edited May 20, 2021 by turtle28

[offbyone]

31 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

Contracts should be guaranteed but they aren’t.

This isn't a simple issue.  The easiest way to debunk this is pointing out that even if all contracts were fully guaranteed, do you really think players would stop the sitting out and breaking of the contract game?  I don't.  As soon as these guys decide they are entitled to more they will break their agreement, sit out, and try to renegotiate or be released.  

There is no doubt that teams would be happy to guarantee all contracts for a reasonable amount, say 2M/year flat for every player.  But that isn't what the players want, is it?  The good ones want to consume all the salary cap they can.  There is no equity among them when it comes to money.  If a player wants a fully guaranteed contract he better be an incredible and valued player who has leverage....or more reasonably in order to get the fully guaranteed contract the player should be willing to be paid less.  But they aren't willing to take less.  

In the end, contracts should be what is negotiated. No one forced you to play the game or sign the contract.  I have no sympathy for the players.  Go get another career if that is how you feel.  Teams never break the terms of the signed contract, only players do.

At the time Moses signed his contract, it looked like a very good contract for him.  Really for both parties.  But now he is underpaid.  This is the classic conundrum with these contracts and a constantly increasing cap.  If Moses simply asked to renegotiate an extension, I really see no problem with that.  Whatever he asked for, he did so privately and respectfully rather than creating drama in social media.  I respect that.  Nothing wrong with asking.  Think about it from his perspective as he sees what we are paying Scherff.  But at the same time we should be able to say no or trade him.

Again, I am totally fine with trading him if we are selling high.  I in fact suggested it a couple months ago.  I believe the same thing for Scherff.  But in the NFL you can't simply cut starters who you have contract disagreements with.  You either resolve the problem on good terms or you get value for the player.  So far, Rivera seems to fail in this situation.  I hope he does better with Moses.

[turtle28]

23 minutes ago, offbyone said:

This isn't a simple issue.  The easiest way to debunk this is pointing out that even if all contracts were fully guaranteed, do you really think players would stop the sitting out and breaking of the contract game?  I don't.  As soon as these guys decide they are entitled to more they will break their agreement, sit out, and try to renegotiate or be released.  

There is no doubt that teams would be happy to guarantee all contracts for a reasonable amount, say 2M/year flat for every player.  But that isn't what the players want, is it?  The good ones want to consume all the salary cap they can.  There is no equity among them when it comes to money.  If a player wants a fully guaranteed contract he better be an incredible and valued player who has leverage....or more reasonably in order to get the fully guaranteed contract the player should be willing to be paid less.  But they aren't willing to take less.  

In the end, contracts should be what is negotiated. No one forced you to play the game or sign the contract.  I have no sympathy for the players.  Go get another career if that is how you feel.  Teams never break the terms of the signed contract, only players do.

At the time Moses signed his contract, it looked like a very good contract for him.  Really for both parties.  But now he is underpaid.  This is the classic conundrum with these contracts and a constantly increasing cap.  If Moses simply asked to renegotiate an extension, I really see no problem with that.  Whatever he asked for, he did so privately and respectfully rather than creating drama in social media.  I respect that.  Nothing wrong with asking.  Think about it from his perspective as he sees what we are paying Scherff.  But at the same time we should be able to say no or trade him.

Again, I am totally fine with trading him if we are selling high.  I in fact suggested it a couple months ago.  I believe the same thing for Scherff.  But in the NFL you can't simply cut starters who you have contract disagreements with.  You either resolve the problem on good terms or you get value for the player.  So far, Rivera seems to fail in this situation.  I hope he does better with Moses.

You have no sympathy for the players? The reason we watch the game is to watch these players play. I’m definitely on their side in almost every situation.

If you aren’t on the players side, you’re on the side with the billionaire owners?

Sorry, I’d side with a player every day of the week over Dan Snyder.

How has Rivera failed in the situation of getting value in a trade for his players if they can’t come to an agreement on a contract?

If you’re talking about Trent Williams, Trent didn’t want to play here anymore. He sat out an entire season rather then play for us. We got what we could for him and moved on and TBH we didn’t miss him as much as I thought we would last year.

Edited May 20, 2021 by turtle28

[RSkinGM]

2 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

You have no sympathy for the players? The reason we watch the game is to watch these players play. I’m definitely on their side in almost every situation.

If you aren’t on the players side, you’re on the side with the billionaire owners?

Sorry, I’d side with a player every day of the week over Dan Snyder.

If there was no such thing as a Salary Cap- pay 'em, but that ain't the way she works .

[turtle28]

Just now, RSkinGM said:

If there was no such thing as a Salary Cap- pay 'em, but that ain't the way she works .

I realize that but at the same time I’m taking the players over the owners.

[offbyone]

27 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

You have no sympathy for the players? The reason we watch the game is to watch these players play. I’m definitely on their side in almost every situation.

If you aren’t on the players side, you’re on the side with the billionaire owners?

Sorry, I’d side with a player every day of the week over Dan Snyder.

How has Rivera failed in the situation of getting value in a trade for his players if they can’t come to an agreement on a contract?

If you’re talking about Trent Williams, Trent didn’t want to play here anymore. He sat out an entire season rather then play for us. We got what we could for him and moved on and TBH we didn’t miss him as much as I thought we would last year.

This has nothing at all to do with Snyder.  I am on the side of the team and the fans and rules they play within.  When a player refuses to fulfill his contract it hurts the team.  If we have to unexpectedly renegotiate a contract or fill a spot for a hold out, it hurts the team.

When it comes to contracts, I am not on the side of the players.  They sign contracts and then break them.  If they don't want to be under foot, then they don't ever have to sign more than a 1 year deal.  That is their choice.
They play a game where even if they only play for a handful of years often make more money than most people in an entire career.  Good for them.  But no sympathy if they negotiated a deal and then have second thoughts.  

Williams, Dunbar, Davis, Scherff, Haskins, etc are all players in Rivera's short time here he failed to get adequate value for.  I commend him for moving on, but you can move on while getting value.  There is a skill to that.  Managing the roster and these situations is important.  Rivera has done very well in some aspects, but this is not one of them.  

[MikeT14]

1 hour ago, offbyone said:

This has nothing at all to do with Snyder.  I am on the side of the team and the fans and rules they play within.  When a player refuses to fulfill his contract it hurts the team.  If we have to unexpectedly renegotiate a contract or fill a spot for a hold out, it hurts the team.

What about when the team signs a player to a 5 year contract and then cuts him after 2? The team refused to fulfill the contract. 

1 hour ago, offbyone said:

When it comes to contracts, I am not on the side of the players.  They sign contracts and then break them.

So do teams. 

 

[lavar703]

1 hour ago, offbyone said:

This has nothing at all to do with Snyder.  I am on the side of the team and the fans and rules they play within.  When a player refuses to fulfill his contract it hurts the team.  If we have to unexpectedly renegotiate a contract or fill a spot for a hold out, it hurts the team.

When it comes to contracts, I am not on the side of the players.  They sign contracts and then break them.  If they don't want to be under foot, then they don't ever have to sign more than a 1 year deal.  That is their choice.
They play a game where even if they only play for a handful of years often make more money than most people in an entire career.  Good for them.  But no sympathy if they negotiated a deal and then have second thoughts.  

Williams, Dunbar, Davis, Scherff, Haskins, etc are all players in Rivera's short time here he failed to get adequate value for.  I commend him for moving on, but you can move on while getting value.  There is a skill to that.  Managing the roster and these situations is important.  Rivera has done very well in some aspects, but this is not one of them.  

lmao let’s compare how many players sit out to ones who get cut before their contracts are up. Siding with the owners when it comes to this is mind boggling to me

[4209]

 

More roster moves. Special teams maybe and backup material. We continuing to add depth but wouldn't be surprise if he is cut but worth a chance. 

[e16bball]

36 minutes ago, MikeT14 said:

What about when the team signs a player to a 5 year contract and then cuts him after 2? The team refused to fulfill the contract. 

So do teams. 

This really isn’t true, though.

The team agreed to pay them all the guaranteed money no matter what, and to pay them the other money as long as they’re on the roster. That’s what they’re contractually obligated to do. That’s how all NFL player contracts work. 

In return, the player agreed that they will play for the team at the bargained-for salary in each season encompassed by the contract, if the team chooses to keep them on the roster. 

In only one of those scenarios is a party breaking the contract, and that is the scenario where the player refuses to play for the agreed-upon salary. A team cutting a player is totally in keeping with the contract. They can’t renege on money owed to the player (without cause). They can’t try to get back bonus money they already paid the player (without cause). They have to pay the player every cent they agreed to pay him — it’s just that the standard NFL player contract has what amounts to a built-in team option. 

Players are under absolutely no requirement to sign a standard contract with only a portion of the money guaranteed. Kirk Cousins, as much as I don’t care for the guy, should have been a trend-setter in the area of demanding fully (or at least more) guaranteed contracts. But they continue to accept these big deals with lots of non-guaranteed money, willingly — and then they come back and cry later about none of their money being guaranteed. And threaten to break the contract if the team doesn’t tear it up and give them something new. It’s dirty pool, in my opinion. 

I don’t care that much, because I feel as though most NFL players lack equal leverage and negotiating power when compared to the team, so I think the terms are a little uneven because the balance of power is a little uneven. But still, technically at least, these players are breaking the contracts in a way that the teams just aren’t.

[MikeT14]