2021 Baker thread

[Thomas5737]

7 hours ago, big poppa pump said:

Pay me millions.....I will manage

It's an individual thing, not a money thing. You may be able to manage criticism making 30k per year. Someone else may not, even if they make 30 million per year. It doesn't change who you are. Remember when T.O. was thought to be suicidal and his agent said he had whatever amount of millions reason to stay alive? That's just dumb. It's the extreme case but I bet suicide and depression doesn't care how wealthy you are.

Granted if you are a well adjusted person more money means more fun and less worries. However if you aren't I doubt it means all that much from a mental standpoint except having the resources to reach out and have someone or something try to get you better. That is if you aren't too ashamed to reach out.

School bullying doesn't affect every kid the same. Some end up being fine. Some don't. You never know which is which until it is too late to turn back.

[bruceb]

1 hour ago, candyman93 said:

I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again, this post is 100% “insecure fan syndrome” in regards to Baker. On what planet is Baker anywhere close to Stafford?

He isn't. Probably top 20 at best.

 

1 hour ago, candyman93 said:

I can agree about Stef and Berry. It’s why I want them to stay.

Agree about Berry.

Not so sure about Stef.

Best we have had since we got the team back, for sure, but lots of chinks in his armor.

He has to give up play calling.

He is nowhere near Reid or McVay.

[pscottdai]

6 minutes ago, bruceb said:

He has to give up play calling.

 

Finally something we agree upon

[hornbybrown]

2 hours ago, bruceb said:

He isn't. Probably top 20 at best.

 

Agree about Berry.

Not so sure about Stef.

Best we have had since we got the team back, for sure, but lots of chinks in his armor.

He has to give up play calling.

He is nowhere near Reid or McVay.

McVay is a overrated play caller

[big poppa pump]

When I said pay ME, I will manage, I was speaking specifically about myself, but I also think that many others would trade positions with athletes, even if it meant dealing with criticism.  This is something that may not be in the job description, but I don't think it is foreign to athletes.  If being trolled on the internet, or hearing boos is too much stress, then maybe professional athlete isn't the line of work they should be in.  I don't see too many of these guys trading in their high paying career because of this.

 

To say that any particular fan base is worse than another when it comes to booing, or trolling is ludicrous.  Fans buy merch.  Fans buy tickets to games.  Fans watch games.  If there were only casual fans, who weren't passionate, then I doubt the nfl/players/owners are making the type of money that they are.  I don't personally have an issue with fans booing, or being critical of the team they root for.  I do think it's wrong to make death threats towards a player, or their family, and those people should be found and prosecuted.  There should be laws with large penalties for this imo.  But if you are talking about booing, or saying that a QB stinks....I don't think there is anything wrong with that.  Perhaps they have always been the best player on the best team, and have been coddled, and told how great they are?  Maybe their pride or ego can't handle when others are critical?  Again...maybe they are in the wrong line of work then?

[candyman93]

Baker doesn’t get pressured a lot, but when he does, it’s usually his own fault

 

 

[bruceb]

1 hour ago, candyman93 said:

Baker doesn’t get pressured a lot, but when he does, it’s usually his own fault

 

 

Just another chink in his armor.

Trying to be a hero.

Woof!

[BrownsDog23]

 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

18 hours ago, candyman93 said:

Baker doesn’t get pressured a lot, but when he does, it’s usually his own fault

 

 

What is this data telling me?
 

Baker is in the same quadrant as guys who’ve won 2 Super Bowls, 5 MVP’s, been to 21 pro bowls and 7 all pro teams.

Mahomes is arguably the best in the game and is in a quadrant with Heinicke.

The player who forced the least pressure was Tannehill, who was on par with Baker statistically this season more or less.

This is a chart that definitely shows some data, but someone is gonna have to tell me the relevance of it. There’s extreme examples of successes and failures in literally every quadrant.

[Rod Johnson]

2 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

What is this data telling me?
 

Baker is in the same quadrant as guys who’ve won 2 Super Bowls, 5 MVP’s, been to 21 pro bowls and 7 all pro teams.

Mahomes is arguably the best in the game and is in a quadrant with Heinicke.

The player who forced the least pressure was Tannehill, who was on par with Baker statistically this season more or less.

This is a chart that definitely shows some data, but someone is gonna have to tell me the relevance of it. There’s extreme examples of successes and failures in literally every quadrant.

Yeah it doesn't seem much correlated to how good a player is.

I see a stronger correlation to how tall the QB is.  Shortest one below the line is Jimmy G (6'2) I think.

Only tallish QBs other than Mahomes (huge outlier anyway) are Lawrence and Mills, rookies with trainwreck coaching. And I guess Goff.

Shorter QBs will bail from clean pockets to see the field better, it doesn't always hurt you but it can.

That's what I'm taking from this.

Edit: Tua is 6'1, so he'd be the shortest.  I still think it's a strong trend on the graph. 

Edited February 17, 2022 by Rod Johnson

[NudeTayne]

4 hours ago, Rod Johnson said:

Yeah it doesn't seem much correlated to how good a player is.

I see a stronger correlation to how tall the QB is.  Shortest one below the line is Jimmy G (6'2) I think.

Only tallish QBs other than Mahomes (huge outlier anyway) are Lawrence and Mills, rookies with trainwreck coaching. And I guess Goff.

Shorter QBs will bail from clean pockets to see the field better, it doesn't always hurt you but it can.

That's what I'm taking from this.

Edit: Tua is 6'1, so he'd be the shortest.  I still think it's a strong trend on the graph. 

There aren't many minority coaches so I guess we don't need those then, since there aren't many 😁👌.

Spoiler

Maybe just maybe it's been a certain way for a bit, but that's all there is to it, possibly a small competitive advantage. I'm more likely to believe that short quarterbacks are overlooked at all levels based on the idea that taller quarterbacks are the best bet.

 

[MWil23]

16 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

What is this data telling me?
 

Baker is in the same quadrant as guys who’ve won 2 Super Bowls, 5 MVP’s, been to 21 pro bowls and 7 all pro teams.

Mahomes is arguably the best in the game and is in a quadrant with Heinicke.

The player who forced the least pressure was Tannehill, who was on par with Baker statistically this season more or less.

This is a chart that definitely shows some data, but someone is gonna have to tell me the relevance of it. There’s extreme examples of successes and failures in literally every quadrant.

I think if nothing else it shows that at least 1/4 of those sacks he takes are on him.

The other guys up there usually are pretty fantastic creating outside the pocket and are pretty athletic. Baker is neither of those things. 

If you look at the total pressured drop backs X axis, Baker was well below the average and very left of the axis, so him creating self induced pressures to that extent shows a lack of pocket navigation or presence that doesn’t even get into holding the ball too long.

In a vacuum this data doesn’t show much, but IMO it does with Baker and also shows how bad that Cincinnati OL is. Look at Burrow…wow.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

3 hours ago, MWil23 said:

I think if nothing else it shows that at least 1/4 of those sacks he takes are on him.

The other guys up there usually are pretty fantastic creating outside the pocket and are pretty athletic. Baker is neither of those things. 

If you look at the total pressured drop backs X axis, Baker was well below the average and very left of the axis, so him creating self induced pressures to that extent shows a lack of pocket navigation or presence that doesn’t even get into holding the ball too long.

In a vacuum this data doesn’t show much, but IMO it does with Baker and also shows how bad that Cincinnati OL is. Look at Burrow…wow.

I agree that’s the point that data is trying to make, it’s just a piss poor example of the fact.  
 

it also doesn’t define what a pressure is defined as or whether or not receivers were open, etc. 

To me it looks like data for the sake of data.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2022/01/the-baker-mayfield-stats-that-explain-his-2021-season-with-the-browns.html?outputType=amp
 

An interesting article outlining some of his issues.

The huge increase in off target throws this season actually gives me hope.  He’s never been an inaccurate passer, you’d have to assume that his shoulder/injuries had to play a sizable role their.

[MWil23]

41 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I agree that’s the point that data is trying to make, it’s just a piss poor example of the fact.  
 

it also doesn’t define what a pressure is defined as or whether or not receivers were open, etc. 

To me it looks like data for the sake of data.

I agree with you about whether or not receivers are open, and tbh, I wish the X/Y axis was labeled a bit better.

I think it's trying to show just how many pressures are self induced with a sliding metric for production, whereas the left of the Y axis is "poor" and to the right is "good", but I'm not sure.