MVP leaders at this point.

[One Punch Man]

2 hours ago, Jeezla said:

Ingram? You serious? He's probably the 4th best offensive player on his own team. It's between Wentz, Brady, Smith, and WIlson. Dark horse is Goff or Stafford. That's it. 

Eh. He’s the face of the Saints new rough-and-tough attitude. From a talent perspective, Kamara has it all but he’s never handled a full workload even in college. He’s probably best fit in the role he’s in now: 2nd fiddle in a 55/45 split, with major opportunity in the pass game. Honestly the way the offense is running now is pretty ideal. If Ingram had a few more huge games? I could see him being OPOY at the least. Guy has been one of the more well-rounded backs in the league for the past few years.

Brady ain’t getting it. Pats will lose a couple more games. Wentz will get it if he wins out. Smith’s been slowing down. Wilson... love the guy. If the Seahawks somehow win the division it’ll be on his back. Legitimate case for the award.

Goff? Nah. Has only really produced in good match-ups. The numbers will be pretty but is he the sole reason for their turnover? No, that’s all McVay.

Stafford? Nah. Team won’t be successful enough when it’s all said and done, at least in comparison to the other guys. Almost dropped one to the Browns. 

 

[Apparition]

2 minutes ago, One Punch Man said:

Brady ain’t getting it. Pats will lose a couple more games.

a) How would losing a couple more games (presumably finishing 12-4) be disqualifying for Brady?
b) ✍️✍️✍️

[AZ_Eaglesfan]

2 minutes ago, One Punch Man said:

Eh. He’s the face of the Saints new rough-and-tough attitude. From a talent perspective, Kamara has it all but he’s never handled a full workload even in college. He’s probably best fit in the role he’s in now: 2nd fiddle in a 55/45 split, with major opportunity in the pass game. Honestly the way the offense is running now is pretty ideal. If Ingram had a few more huge games? I could see him being OPOY at the least. Guy has been one of the more well-rounded backs in the league for the past few years.

Brady ain’t getting it. Pats will lose a couple more games. Wentz will get it if he wins out. Smith’s been slowing down. Wilson... love the guy. If the Seahawks somehow win the division it’ll be on his back. Legitimate case for the award.

Goff? Nah. Has only really produced in good match-ups. The numbers will be pretty but is he the sole reason for their turnover? No, that’s all McVay.

Stafford? Nah. Team won’t be successful enough when it’s all said and done, at least in comparison to the other guys. Almost dropped one to the Browns. 

 

I don't see a single argument for Ingram that could exist, even for OPOY. What Gurley is doing in LA and what Hunt is doing in KC are both way more impressive.

[Raves]

32 minutes ago, AZ_Eaglesfan said:

I don't see a single argument for Ingram that could exist, even for OPOY. What Gurley is doing in LA and what Hunt is doing in KC are both way more impressive.

Mind you, he's not a Saints fan, just putting that out there.  Though if any Saints player would have a case it would be Ingram but he has a negative case here, not even worth talking about.  Back to Brady and Wentz.

[showtime]

3 hours ago, PatriotsWin! said:

1. Brady

2. Smith

3. Wentz

Alex Smith over Carson Wentz?  I just looked at Smith's stats and he better stats than I thought, but he's nowhere near as good as Carson Wentz.  I've watched a few Chiefs games this season and honestly, Smith has not been very impressive in the few games I've seen.  The game vs the Cowboys and the Steelers were two that I saw in their entirety.  There's no way he should be over Wentz.

[Shady Slim]

feel smith has been forgotten after a couple of down weeks causing recency bias and being on the bye - wentz is on the bye too but he had a ripper last game

i'd be all fine with either of those two or brady rn bc unless someone has a generational season then it's interpretive

[biggbrd]

17 minutes ago, Shady Slim said:

feel smith has been forgotten after a couple of down weeks causing recency bias and being on the bye - wentz is on the bye too but he had a ripper last game

i'd be all fine with either of those two or brady rn bc unless someone has a generational season then it's interpretive

Yeah, I think it's happened because a lot of Smith's early hype related to KC being undefeated. Now that they have lost a few in a short span of time, they aren't the in team anymore. Smith's stats are still arguably the best of the 3, depending on whether you prefer efficiency and safety vs bulk TD numbers. The remaining schedule for the Chiefs doesn't look horrendous, but does have a few tough divisional games remaining. If Smith continues to play at his current level and they win 12 or 13 games, he will definitely have a shot at the award. 

[Hunter2_1]

11 hours ago, Darth Pees said:

You're probably right, and that's a shame. Heck, even I don't have him winning it right now over Carson Wentz.

He could very well be the most valuable, but the award doesn't go to the most valuable. Ever.

[Aztec Hammer]

I hope Brady doesn't win it. It's a poisoned chalice.

Hasn't the league MVP lost a ridiculous amount of times in the Super Bowl?

Just checked. No MVP has won the super bowl since 2000. Think reasons for that include the pressure on him, everyone gunning to knock him off and also, the recent obsession with not actually giving the MVP to the player that deserved it. Instead giving it to someone who whilst they had a great season, wasn't actually the best player in the league and therefore not winning the super bowl ultimately isn't really much of an upset.

[Shady Slim]

see going by the above statistical comparison you're drinking the kool aid if your vote is anything other than smith imo, but like i said i think factoring in practicality and the eye test from watching any of the three are a good choice

i think the eye test is predominantly what disqualifies wilson because along with some of the absolute suckers he's thrown in which the seahawks have still won (at rams the great example someone else brought up), half of the seahawks play is just "run around for a bit and hurl it in the general direction of literal ball magnet paul richardson", there's been a lot of fluky play there and i do agree you shouldn't really show a bias to players with less around them UNLESS they are doing a brilliant brilliant job ie put rodgers in san frisco and he drops twelve wins, because it is kind of unfair to penalise guys like brady for having team builders up top who don't suck

[Jakuvious]

5 hours ago, showtime said:

Alex Smith over Carson Wentz?  I just looked at Smith's stats and he better stats than I thought, but he's nowhere near as good as Carson Wentz.  I've watched a few Chiefs games this season and honestly, Smith has not been very impressive in the few games I've seen.  The game vs the Cowboys and the Steelers were two that I saw in their entirety.  There's no way he should be over Wentz.

You watched probably the two worst possible games, then. The Steelers are our foil, and the Cowboys followed their gameplan excellently.

Smith has been phenomenal though, overall. Has played like an MVP 6 or 7 out of the 9 games this season. He's still probably the best QB statistically, depending on how you weigh things (Smith owns everything efficiency related still, along with the least turnovers, but he doesn't have the bulk yards of Brady or the TDs of Wentz.) In a year with lesser performances elsewhere, he would still deserve it. And if Wentz or Brady lose a few games or put up a few lackluster performances, or if Smith has some monster games or comebacks or something, he could get right back in it. At this point he doesn't just because of how spectacular Wentz and Brady have been more recently as he has faltered a little. But rest assured, he has played at an MVP level overall this season. Just a little bit less than Brady and Wentz have.

[Shady Slim]

smith also doesn't have storyline going for him imo which is especially big in fan vote and the media

tom brady is old man river yet mixing it with the best of them, and at the age where he should by all means be over the hill but keeps being the GOAT

carson wentz is the upshot quarterback of the upshot NFC favourites who very few expected to even be in the playoffs, (though most did expect improvement), and leads what is many say the best team in football

given that the pats win was like eight weeks ago, alex smith is alex smith, the guy who's quarterbacking a team everyone expected to do well... and is doing well! there isn't as much jazz there

i'd still give my vote to smith 

[Jakuvious]

2 minutes ago, Shady Slim said:

see going by the above statistical comparison you're drinking the kool aid if your vote is anything other than smith imo, but like i said i think factoring in practicality and the eye test from watching any of the three are a good choice

i think the eye test is predominantly what disqualifies wilson because along with some of the absolute suckers he's thrown in which the seahawks have still won (at rams the great example someone else brought up), half of the seahawks play is just "run around for a bit and hurl it in the general direction of literal ball magnet paul richardson", there's been a lot of fluky play there and i do agree you shouldn't really show a bias to players with less around them UNLESS they are doing a brilliant brilliant job ie put rodgers in san frisco and he drops twelve wins, because it is kind of unfair to penalise guys like brady for having team builders up top who don't suck

To me, I think what drops both Wilson and Smith, is that in each case, you can point to a game on their schedule, and say if they had played better, their teams would have won. I don't think you can do that right now for Wentz or Brady. Brady is scoring 27+ points in his losses. Wentz had a solid enough game in his loss against KC. But Smith and Wilson have losses on their schedules where the offenses just didn't contribute. Smith against Pittsburgh and Dallas, Wilson against Green Bay and Washington. Those games stick out as black marks. And they're memorable.

[Shady Slim]

12 minutes ago, Jakuvious said:

To me, I think what drops both Wilson and Smith, is that in each case, you can point to a game on their schedule, and say if they had played better, their teams would have won. I don't think you can do that right now for Wentz or Brady. Brady is scoring 27+ points in his losses. Wentz had a solid enough game in his loss against KC. But Smith and Wilson have losses on their schedules where the offenses just didn't contribute. Smith against Pittsburgh and Dallas, Wilson against Green Bay and Washington. Those games stick out as black marks. And they're memorable.

i'll give you the pittsburgh game but with the caveat the chiefs always suck against the steelers, which rules me out from digging wilson for an anaemic performance up against the rams

but smith and the chiefs weren't awful from what i saw against dallas whereas the seahawks have just been utter crud in some of their games (for me at least)

[Jakuvious]

Just now, Shady Slim said:

i'll give you the pittsburgh game but with the caveat the chiefs always suck against the steelers, which rules me out from digging wilson for an anaemic performance up against the rams

but smith and the chiefs weren't awful from what i saw against dallas whereas the seahawks have just been utter crud in some of their games (for me at least)

No, we weren't entirely awful against Dallas. Smith was mediocre more than bad in that game, to be honest. But that's also why Smith is still closer to the MVP conversation than Wilson is.