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MVP leaders at this point.

resilient part 2

By resilient part 2
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eric5280

eric5280

Posted
Posted

But to some extent I agree with you that Brees in criminally under rated.  He just had the unfortunate timing of playing during the Manning Brady rivalry that elevated their statuses.. And then came Aaron Rodgers as the heir apparent leaving Brees out of most conversations for best QB even though he deserves to be there.

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Raves

Raves

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, eric5280 said:

My apologies, I mixed up stats from 2008 and 2009.. Basically 2009 is the only year Brees had a valid claim over Manning.  Brees was 500 in 2008 that won't ever get it done in an MVP conversation.

But the argument someone else mentioned was the "carrying a defense" well the Patriots defense aren't that bad considering they are 14th in PPG, though yes they do give up a lot of yards.  If carrying a bad defense, if a team like the Saints can get to 7-9 in 2015 while giving up nearly 30 PPG, then it shouldn't matter as Brees still carried them that far with his play, without Brees the Saints likely would've been an 0-16 team or similar, heck prior to this year it hadn't been since 2013 I think that the Saints had won a game without Brees throwing a TD, not to mention we've all seen how other QBs have come in and played when Brady has had to miss games in NE over the years, which does still prove a point.

 

Now the real argument isn't about Brees this season, he's not even the best candidate for MVP on the Saints team, which they really don't have one, but whether as of right now it is Wentz or Brady, I just don't think the "carrying a bad defense" argument should have any weight as they aren't that bad of a defense based on PPG, which even if you averaged all the teams PPG out, the Patriots are still sitting right in the middle.

 

So I would rank it currently:

1) Wentz (Better record, better stats, we've seen Philly in recent years bad without Wentz and great with him)

2) Brady (though minimal distance between the two)

large gap

3) Alex Smith

4) Jared Goff (Though as I mentioned he's my dark horse.  If he ends up going 4-1 over the next 5 weeks, including a win over the Eagles, while playing as he has he'll be the favorite to win due to the great comeback story compared to last years season, dominating the top competition of the NFC, etc.)

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Jlowe22

Jlowe22

Posted
Posted

Brees has had 3 MVP caliber seasons, and unfortunately two of them were overshadowed by the arguable two greatest statistical seasons of all time, and one was overshadowed by Manning going 14-0.  2009 was the only year he deserved it IMO.

There have been several other years where he has had MVP caliber season until ~two bad games screwed up his stats.  In many of those years Saints have had a really bad team around him also.

Unfortunately his career, while certainly HOF worthy, has been overshadowed by three GOAT candidates.

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eric5280

eric5280

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Raves said:

But the argument someone else mentioned was the "carrying a defense" well the Patriots defense aren't that bad considering they are 14th in PPG, though yes they do give up a lot of yards.  If carrying a bad defense, if a team like the Saints can get to 7-9 in 2015 while giving up nearly 30 PPG, then it shouldn't matter as Brees still carried them that far with his play, without Brees the Saints likely would've been an 0-16 team or similar, heck prior to this year it hadn't been since 2013 I think that the Saints had won a game without Brees throwing a TD, not to mention we've all seen how other QBs have come in and played when Brady has had to miss games in NE over the years, which does still prove a point.

 

Now the real argument isn't about Brees this season, he's not even the best candidate for MVP on the Saints team, which they really don't have one, but whether as of right now it is Wentz or Brady, I just don't think the "carrying a bad defense" argument should have any weight as they aren't that bad of a defense based on PPG, which even if you averaged all the teams PPG out, the Patriots are still sitting right in the middle.

 

So I would rank it currently:

1) Wentz (Better record, better stats, we've seen Philly in recent years bad without Wentz and great with him)

2) Brady (though minimal distance between the two)

large gap

3) Alex Smith

4) Jared Goff (Though as I mentioned he's my dark horse.  If he ends up going 4-1 over the next 5 weeks, including a win over the Eagles, while playing as he has he'll be the favorite to win due to the great comeback story compared to last years season, dominating the top competition of the NFC, etc.)

It's true the Pats defense has improved drastically this season so I think that feeling was largely due lingering sentiment for when the Patriots defense started the season historically bad in terms of both yards allowed and points allowed.. They have quietly turned into a decent D after the first quarter for the season although they are still dead last in yards allowed.  I think the problem with your definition of carrying a defense is that it doesn't matter if you "carry" a defense to a .500 record because a .500 record doesn't usually amount to anything.  There's more garbage time stats and low leverage situations that lower the value of the performance which isn't Brees' fault but great performances that don't result in wins aren't worth as much in the MVP race.  If your argument is for offensive player of the year, then carrying a team in this fashion warrants merit.

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AZ_Eaglesfan

AZ_Eaglesfan

Posted
Posted

Wentz has a good argument to be MVP(best QB on Third Down, Most TDs, best record), but Brady has a better argument currently. Every other stat then the three I listed Brady pretty much owns, and he is playing with a worse defense. That said, the fact that he is Brady might actually hurt his chances of getting the MVP if Wentz is anywhere even close to him statistically down the stretch. At the end of the day, if the current trends continue, my guess is whoever finishes with the better record between the Eagles and Pats will have the MVP on their team. I don't think that is the correct way to judge it, I just think that is what will end up occurring. 

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Jeezla

Jeezla

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, One Punch Man said:

It’s Wentz or Smith’s to lose. 

Dark Horse: Ingram. More likely to win OPOY. 

Is Goff eligible for Comeback POY? 

Ingram? You serious? He's probably the 4th best offensive player on his own team. It's between Wentz, Brady, Smith, and WIlson. Dark horse is Goff or Stafford. That's it. 

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Apparition

Apparition

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, kingseanjohn said:

Rodgers should win it. But he won't because he's hurt. Which is exactly why he should win with the way the Packers have tanked. 

Can we dispense with this trope already? It's not Most "Valuable" Player in the literal sense and it never has been.

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biggbrd

biggbrd

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Posted

I think most people would agree that Smith, Wentz and Brady remain the top 3. Here is a comparison of their stats and their team's stats as pulled from yahoo. 

QB stats

Player Team G QBRat Comp Att Pct Yds PasY/G Y/A TD Int 1stD Sacks YdsL Fumb FumL
KC 9 113.9 204 293 69.6 2,444 271.6 8.3 18 1 118 24 148 1 1
NE 9 108.3 231 343 67.3 2,807 311.9 8.2 19 2 140 22 130 5 2
PHI 9 104.1 176 291 60.5 2,262 251.3 7.8 23 5 109 23 127 4 1

Offense

Team                       G   Pts/G   Yds/G    PasY/G   RusY/G 1stD/G  3rdM     3rdD%   4thM   4thD%    PEN   PYds   ToP/G

 9  31.4   392.0   255.2   136.8     21.9      59     46.8        7      70.0     63    578   33:12
 9 28.1   388.2   271.6   116.7     20.0      47      41.6        0      0.0       72    657    30:44
  9 28.6   423.9   316.0   107.9     25.0     55      45.1        4      50.0     60    548    31:09
                         


Defense

Team                       G   Pts/G   Yds/G   RushYds/G   PassYds/G  Int  IntTD   FF   DefTD   Total   PD   Sack

 9  23.1   390.3     131.1         259.2         8      0       6      2        357  44 19.0
  9  21.7   408.3     121.1         287.2         7      0       4      0        389  40 16.0
9  19.9   315.9     66.4           249.4        11     1       5     2       337  59 25.0

And of course, the records:

Chiefs 6-3

Pats 7-2

Eagles 8-1

 

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riceman80

riceman80

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Posted

Its between Wentz, Brady, and Smith. However Smith is dropping out the convo quick.

Wentz is on the better team with the better record

Brady has the better coaches and has his team winning despite their defense.

Russell Wilson is my dark horse cuz he seems to always catch fire in november and december

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