Rank the O-Lines in the NFC East

[MikeT14]

There's a "good" debate going on in the Eagles forum regarding the order of talent among the O-lines in the NFC East. I'd be curious to hear from you all what you think?

 

[scar988]

In order using Ourlads to determine starters:

 

Dallas: Tyron Smith - Connor Williams - Tyler Biadasz - Zach Martin - La'El Collins

Philly: Andre Dillard - Isaac Seumalo - Jason Kelce - Brandon Brooks - Lane Johnson

Washington: Charles Leno - Wes Schweitzer - Chase Roullier - Brandon Scherff - Samuel Cosmi

Giants: Andrew Thomas - Shane Lemieux - Nick Gates - Will Hernandez - Will Peart

 

Dallas has a good mix of talent and size and history.

Philly has a good right side that's old, but the left side isn't very good.

Washington has a RG and a C, but the rest is either unproven or meh.

Giants have a good RG, but average or way worst elsewhere.

[minutemancl]

These NFC East lines are a far cry from what they used to be. Dallas is the best, but that C-LG combo is unproven/questionable. Philly is solid in 4/5 spots, but almost all of them are old or often injured. Washington has a kind of random assortment of players. Scherff is good, but also often out. Then they've got some guys who have been up and down in their careers; the highs have been pretty good, and relatively recent, but it's hard to say you are confident about any of them outside of Scherff.

The Giants are entirely unproven. Everyone in that starting lineup is under 26 years old. 3 of them were drafted last year. Nick Gates just started playing center for the first time ever last year. Pretty much all of them, overall, played poorly last year. They did improve at different speeds towards the end of the year, but overall, not great.

[Ozzy]

34 minutes ago, scar988 said:

In order using Ourlads to determine starters:

 

Dallas: Tyron Smith - Connor Williams - Tyler Biadasz - Zach Martin - La'El Collins

Philly: Andre Dillard - Isaac Seumalo - Jason Kelce - Brandon Brooks - Lane Johnson

Washington: Charles Leno - Wes Schweitzer - Chase Roullier - Brandon Scherff - Samuel Cosmi

Giants: Andrew Thomas - Shane Lemieux - Nick Gates - Will Hernandez - Will Peart

 

Dallas has a good mix of talent and size and history.

Philly has a good right side that's old, but the left side isn't very good.

Washington has a RG and a C, but the rest is either unproven or meh.

Giants have a good RG, but average or way worst elsewhere.

Yeah if Nate Solder does not start over Peart that is just sad and shows how far he has fallen.

 

In terms of Dallas and Philly it is kind of a wash because Zach Martin and Brooks are both great guards, Lane Johnson and Tryon Smith are both great tackles when healthy.  Then it comes down to who is better between Collins and Dillard which is kind of hard to tell because both get hurt a decent amount, long term I think Dillard might get the nod.  Then at center no question Kelce over Biadasz but will see if he can develop into a decent starter.  Then one has Connor Williams and Seumalo which is tough to call as well.  So it is pretty equal outside of center which could put Philly over the top I feel.  Then the backups in Dallas with Ball, Steele, Knight, Nsekhe and Hyatt and Connor McGovern who could become a solid player is pretty good.  That group compared to Philly with Driscoll, Pryor, Herbig, Tucker, Clark, Pierschbacher and the outstanding potentially dude in Landon Dickerson...  Got to go with the Eagles backups as well because of Dickerson who could start for them this year and if he can play would put them easily over the top of Dallas.

 

 

In terms of depth Washington is damn good also with Lucas on the bench who could easily start not to mention Flowers who could also start at OG and is a solid player.  Then they have Charles as well who has good potential, David Sharpe, Tyler Larson, Beau Benzschawel, and Rick Leonard so they are pretty good as well especially if Leno and Cosmi can be solid tackles but that is still a question mark at this point.  They also let go of Moses who was also with that group obviously, not sure Leno is an upgrade over him regardless of position tackle to tackle.  

 

 

The best OL in the NFL is Kansas City though, especially with the knockout they got in Trey Smith who could start for them as a 6th rounder and was a big time steal and Humphrey has done well at center and they got one of the best young OTs in the game with Orlando Brown Jr and one of the best guards in the game in Thuney.  

[AlexGreen#20]

On paper, probably Dallas. 

In rea life, neither Dallas nor Philly will stay healthy, so whichever is the least banged up. 

[Dr A W Niloc]

The consensus of my sources (most notably PFF and ESPN) is:  Washington (12th), Dallas (15th), Philadelphia (19th), and NYGs (DFL). 

The Eagles are scrappier than the Cowboys, though.

[Matts4313]

3 hours ago, Dr A W Niloc said:

The consensus of my sources (most notably PFF and ESPN) is:  Washington (12th), Dallas (15th), Philadelphia (19th), and NYGs (DFL). 

The Eagles are scrappier than the Cowboys, though.

Is this a prediction for 2021 or rankings based on 2020? 

[TheRealMcCoy]

11 hours ago, scar988 said:

Philly: Andre Dillard

He's not close to starting. The job is Jordan Mailata's who played pretty well in his first time starting in the regular season last year and has looked great in camp far outplaying Dillard like it hasn't been close. He has the physical tools to be an elite LT, but we'll see if he can put it together technique wise to unlock that potential.

11 hours ago, scar988 said:

Philly has a good right side that's old, but the left side isn't very good.

You're underselling Seumalo and you probably didn't watch Mailata last season.

10 hours ago, Ozzy said:

Then it comes down to who is better between Collins and Dillard which is kind of hard to tell because both get hurt a decent amount, long term I think Dillard might get the nod.

Dillard is NOT starting. 

[Dr A W Niloc]

1 hour ago, Matts4313 said:

Is this a prediction for 2021 or rankings based on 2020? 

Both.  The PFF ratings are aggregates of the current O-Linemen based on individual performance last year.  ESPN uses Win-Rates.  Undroppables use other criteria, including continuity.  These are often broken down by run versus pass blocking.

[Matts4313]

1 hour ago, Dr A W Niloc said:

Both.  The PFF ratings are aggregates of the current O-Linemen based on individual performance last year.  ESPN uses Win-Rates.  Undroppables use other criteria, including continuity.  These are often broken down by run versus pass blocking.

My issue with this is if it uses last year, its probably faulty. Both the Eagles and Cowboys were devastated with injuries. Speaking for the Cowboys, we went through something like 4-5 OTs, 2-3 OGs, and 2-3 C's. 

[Ozzy]

6 hours ago, TheRealMcCoy said:

He's not close to starting. The job is Jordan Mailata's who played pretty well in his first time starting in the regular season last year and has looked great in camp far outplaying Dillard like it hasn't been close. He has the physical tools to be an elite LT, but we'll see if he can put it together technique wise to unlock that potential.

You're underselling Seumalo and you probably didn't watch Mailata last season.

Dillard is NOT starting. 

Good to know, and yeah I have probably not watched Mailata as much as you have.  He was good last year sure but was nothing amazing.  Dillard I really liked coming out of college, what is his problem then?  Is it his injuries or is he simply not getting it at this level.  Disappointing big time if that is the case because coming out of Washington State he showed a lot of athletic upside and potential.  As for Seumalo, sure I might be underselling him but then again overall I could be overselling that entire group but still overall they are probably better than the Dallas group.

 

Landon Dickerson I like a lot more than Seumalo as a prospect, I will say that and will be curious how they use Dickerson this year.

 

Also is Mailata really playing that well?  Pretty impressive for such a massive dude, I would have thought he would be a RT all the way.  Very impressive for a dude with so little football experience, big time project but clearly is paying off.  

Edited August 17, 2021 by Ozzy

[h13r024]

6 hours ago, Matts4313 said:

My issue with this is if it uses last year, its probably faulty. Both the Eagles and Cowboys were devastated with injuries. Speaking for the Cowboys, we went through something like 4-5 OTs, 2-3 OGs, and 2-3 C's. 

I've read a ton of what you post on here, so I think its safe to say your actual issue is that the Cowboys weren't in 1st. If those same circumstances put the Cowboys at #1 you'd rep that stat so quick. 

[TheRealMcCoy]

2 hours ago, Ozzy said:

Good to know, and yeah I have probably not watched Mailata as much as you have.  He was good last year sure but was nothing amazing.

I said he played pretty well. Never said he was amazing.

He was mauling dudes in the run game and showed improvement in pass protection as the season wore on.

I was impressed for his first starts of his career how competent he looked.

It's crazy we drafted him in the 7th in 2018 and he barely knew how to buckle a chin strap then.

2 hours ago, Ozzy said:

Dillard I really liked coming out of college, what is his problem then?  Is it his injuries or is he simply not getting it at this level.  Disappointing big time if that is the case because coming out of Washington State he showed a lot of athletic upside and potential.

Dillard's big thing is probably mental toughness and physical strength. Mental toughness in that I think Derek Barnett made him cry during a practice his rookie year and the HC and GM and to come over to talk to him. Then, physical strength in that he really really struggles with the bull rush. It's something he struggled with as a rookie and it hasn't got much better. Granted it sucked he got that bicep injury in camp last year that kept him out all season and into the offseason before it healed and he was able to start doing upper body lifting again, but yeah he's been just getting kind of killed in camp on power rushes. Mailata on the other hand never really ever loses to power. If he loses its not fast like Dillard. It takes guys longer to get around him when they do manage to beat him whether its with an outside rush or stringing together moves.

These are all from different days. It's been a common theme. Might hurt Dillard that his arms are 33.5" versus Sweat's 34 and 5/8ths. Now, its not impossible to be a really good tackle with shorter arms (he's above the 33" threshold), but if you are gonna lack the reach you can't lack the strength as well.

Mailata on the other hand has vines at 35.5" (35 and 4/8ths). Going by PFF's top tackles list the only tackle in the top 10 to have longer arms is Ronnie Stanley at 35 and 5/8ths and the only one in the top 25 with longer was Tyron Smith with insane 36 and 3/8ths. Mailata also has ridiculous raw power to go along with the length.

Dillard obviously has quick feet in pass pro, but that's not gonna be enough. Hoping he can eventually get his strength to a place where he can anchor effectively cause I don't really want that pick to be a bust and that's how its trending.

2 hours ago, Ozzy said:

As for Seumalo, sure I might be underselling him but then again overall I could be overselling that entire group but still overall they are probably better than the Dallas group.

Landon Dickerson I like a lot more than Seumalo as a prospect, I will say that and will be curious how they use Dickerson this year.

Seumalo has just proven to be a pretty solid starter, but yes I like Dickerson's potential to surpass him, but he has to see the field first. He hasn't even practiced yet, so I can't imagine he'll be starting week 1. I think he's gonna probably cross train at guard/center and be the top back-up on the interior in the event one of Seumalo, Kelce, or Brooks goes down. 

2 hours ago, Ozzy said:

Also is Mailata really playing that well?  Pretty impressive for such a massive dude, I would have thought he would be a RT all the way.  Very impressive for a dude with so little football experience, big time project but clearly is paying off.  

Yeah. He's 6'8" 380 lbs!!!! lmao... just a ridiculous human that he can still move that well at that size.

He's having his best camp by far of his career, but obviously we still need to see him in real games. It's crazy to think about cause I remember some Eagles reporters/fans questioning if he would make the 53 early in camp last year and its not like the Eagles had supreme confidence in him coming in and being as competent as he ended up being, because they had Dillard penciled in early heading into camp before he tore his bicep. Then they brought back an old broken down Jason Peters to man that spot and before that contract was done they even tried putting Matt Pryor over there too.

Would probably be easier for him to play on the right side next to Brooks rather than Seumalo, but at this point Lane Johnson has been a RT his whole NFL career and he has great chemistry with Brooks and probably think Mailata can handle the left side, so why change even more things? Ya know.

Also... Mailata can do this.

My mans is a force to be reckoned with. 💪

[Ozzy]

17 minutes ago, TheRealMcCoy said:

I said he played pretty well. Never said he was amazing.

He was mauling dudes in the run game and showed improvement in pass protection as the season wore on.

I was impressed for his first starts of his career how competent he looked.

It's crazy we drafted him in the 7th in 2018 and he barely knew how to buckle a chin strap then.

Dillard's big thing is probably mental toughness and physical strength. Mental toughness in that I think Derek Barnett made him cry during a practice his rookie year and the HC and GM and to come over to talk to him. Then, physical strength in that he really really struggles with the bull rush. It's something he struggled with as a rookie and it hasn't got much better. Granted it sucked he got that bicep injury in camp last year that kept him out all season and into the offseason before it healed and he was able to start doing upper body lifting again, but yeah he's been just getting kind of killed in camp on power rushes. Mailata on the other hand never really ever loses to power. If he loses its not fast like Dillard. It takes guys longer to get around him when they do manage to beat him whether its with an outside rush or stringing together moves.

These are all from different days. It's been a common theme. Might hurt Dillard that his arms are 33.5" versus Sweat's 34 and 5/8ths. Now, its not impossible to be a really good tackle with shorter arms (he's above the 33" threshold), but if you are gonna lack the reach you can't lack the strength as well.

Mailata on the other hand has vines at 35.5" (35 and 4/8ths). Going by PFF's top tackles list the only tackle in the top 10 to have longer arms is Ronnie Stanley at 35 and 5/8ths and the only one in the top 25 with longer was Tyron Smith with insane 36 and 3/8ths. Mailata also has ridiculous raw power to go along with the length.

Dillard obviously has quick feet in pass pro, but that's not gonna be enough. Hoping he can eventually get his strength to a place where he can anchor effectively cause I don't really want that pick to be a bust and that's how its trending.

Seumalo has just proven to be a pretty solid starter, but yes I like Dickerson's potential to surpass him, but he has to see the field first. He hasn't even practiced yet, so I can't imagine he'll be starting week 1. I think he's gonna probably cross train at guard/center and be the top back-up on the interior in the event one of Seumalo, Kelce, or Brooks goes down. 

Yeah. He's 6'8" 380 lbs!!!! lmao... just a ridiculous human that he can still move that well at that size.

He's having his best camp by far of his career, but obviously we still need to see him in real games. It's crazy to think about cause I remember some Eagles reporters/fans questioning if he would make the 53 early in camp last year and its not like the Eagles had supreme confidence in him coming in and being as competent as he ended up being, because they had Dillard penciled in early heading into camp before he tore his bicep. Then they brought back an old broken down Jason Peters to man that spot and before that contract was done they even tried putting Matt Pryor over there too.

Would probably be easier for him to play on the right side next to Brooks rather than Seumalo, but at this point Lane Johnson has been a RT his whole NFL career and he has great chemistry with Brooks and probably think Mailata can handle the left side, so why change even more things? Ya know.

Also... Mailata can do this.

My mans is a force to be reckoned with. 💪

Thanks for all the info, yeah his progression for basically never playing football before to now is damn impressive.  And yeah physically he is just a giant and hard not to like that, and clearly he is very talented.  So yeah maybe Dillard is straight up done for at least for the Eagles because he will never be that big or that strong so will be hard to beat out and win the spot.  Still I think Dillard has a chance in the league and maybe the Eagles should trade him or let him go and he can get a new start somewhere else who knows.  

I am going to have to watch Jordan Mailata a little closer next time they play for sure.

[TheRealMcCoy]

1 minute ago, Ozzy said:

Thanks for all the info, yeah his progression for basically never playing football before to now is damn impressive.

Jeff Stoutland deserves a ton of credit. Elite o-line coach.

2 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

And yeah physically he is just a giant and hard not to like that, and clearly he is very talented.  So yeah maybe Dillard is straight up done for at least for the Eagles because he will never be that big or that strong so will be hard to beat out and win the spot.  Still I think Dillard has a chance in the league and maybe the Eagles should trade him or let him go and he can get a new start somewhere else who knows.  

I know some beat reporters have said he's not one of the 53 best players on the roster like they say we should trade him for whatever we can get (6th or 7th rounder), but I don't want to completely give up on him yet. He missed all of last year with an injury that prevented him from getting stronger. I'd like to see him kept for another year. If he isn't showing anything next camp, then maybe then move on, but I think its still a little too soon to just pull the plug.