Wheel of Time Season 2 (Sept 1 Amazon Prime)

[Xenos]

4 hours ago, SMashMouthMike said:

Episode 5 has dropped. Not great, not bad. Loved Perrin and egwene’s scene with the questioner.  White tower scenes were okay but a little boring for me. Finally some lore being introduced and much needed character development.

I actually liked this episode a lot including the intrigue at The White Tower. The only weird issue I had was the weird transition and editing with Nyneve. One moment she’s at one location and then suddenly she meets up with someone else. It was a little jarring.

[SMashMouthMike]

6 hours ago, Xenos said:

I actually liked this episode a lot including the intrigue at The White Tower. The only weird issue I had was the weird transition and editing with Nyneve. One moment she’s at one location and then suddenly she meets up with someone else. It was a little jarring.

I didn’t notice that until u mentioned it but yes. 
 

Spoiler

I thought Stepin’s funeral was too much and cringeworthy. Lan showing that much emotion made me uncomfortable. Too much time spent on Stepin I think too, not enough on lore and nature of the bad guys. And what happened to Logain?

 

Edited December 3, 2021 by SMashMouthMike

[Xenos]

5 hours ago, SMashMouthMike said:

I didn’t notice that until u mentioned it but yes. 
 

  Reveal hidden contents

I thought Stepin’s funeral was too much and cringeworthy. Lan showing that much emotion made me uncomfortable. Too much time spent on Stepin I think too, not enough on lore and nature of the bad guys. And what happened to Logain?

 

 

Spoiler

I guess I felt the opposite. The funeral scene worked for me because it felt earned. It probably helped that Stepin was a likeable character who I was sad to see go. Lan’s emotional pain also worked within the context of the scene because everything felt like it was adding up to it. He had been such a stoic character before but you start to see his emotions slowly bleed throughout this episode, leading to the final scene where everything was finally able to be unleashed and let go. It’s ironic that it started out as a stereotypical masculine gesture with the beating of the chest, but basically allowed one person to express the grief that the others held back on. Stepin’s death also seems to also mirror what happened to a male channeler when they were cut off from the One Power. In his case, it was losing his Aes Sedai.

 

Edited December 3, 2021 by Xenos

[Broncofan]

On 11/27/2021 at 1:03 PM, Matts4313 said:

There are 14 books and a million wiki articles, so clearly there is a more deep understanding of the dynamics than what the show has given us. I enjoy learning the finer detail points. 

Spoiler

 

The thing ppl should know about the 14 books - at least 4, if not 5 of them - were a complete money grab by Jordan, starting in books 6 or 7.   
 

Spoiler

Literally nothing major happened for 200-300 pages, and it quickly  led to only 1 key event per book.   And after 3-4 books of this, Jordan brought back 2-3 key characters whose death was the one key event per book.   

To say the fanbase was irate was an understatement.   Brandon Sanderson saved that franchise when Jordan died.   Jordan had an amazing first 5 books, but man he got caught with writer's block that would give GRRM pause.  The only difference is Jordan just went "milk the franchise" route rather than sit it out.  

So for ppl who are considering reading the books, keep that in mind.   If ppl read the GRRM / Erikson / Rothfuss or even Sanderson books... they might think Jordan's seems awful simple.   Keep in mind he rewrote the formula that most authors used to create the new genre readers enjoy.   But it appears dated compared to the complexity of the book series nowadays.

As someone who grew up reading the books, I actually don't have a problem with the TV changes - they're needed to make the story relevant for today's mores/values.   

Spoiler

I like what they've done with  Mat/Lan/Nynaeve that are different from the books, while I think they had to bring some angst to Perrin early (he's literally the least interesting of the tave'ren until 3-4 books in, minimum).   I also like how they've made both Tam (Rand's father) and Thom Merrilin (the gleeman in the bar in ep4) pretty badass from the start (they don't hint at it in the first couple of books at all).

 

The TV writers certainly made the characters far more interesting than I remember in the 1st couple of books (it's obvious from the books who they're going to focus more on early on, they definitely balance things out more in the TV series, which is absolutely necessary if you want to draw the viewers in to the entire group and entire world).   As long as they don't fundamentally change the core personality / values of each character, it actually can move the series in ways that make it far more interesting to ppl who've read the books, yet keep the viewers attuned to what the original characters were meant to be/do.

I actually had very low expectations for the TV series when news came out.   I wasn't even sure I was going to watch until after football season, and the entire season 1 was done.  I binge watched ep1-4 and I have to say, after ep4 I'm now interested in the series to keep watching weekly.  Ep1-3 was more setup on the characters that was necessary, but Ep4 really moved the ensemble forward in a big way.  

I thought the series was going to be too "by the numbers" (given it created the foundation for the books we see nowadays), but I like how the TV series has blended in new elements, and brought events from future books in, to help advance the characters (for example, what happens with Mat in ep4 is something that's not really supposed to happen for at least 2-3 books - won't spoil).  

Edited December 5, 2021 by Broncofan

[Tk3]

Episode 5

Overall thoughts

Not one of my favorite episodes, but I get what they did, and sometimes a palate clenaser is important. Definitely less action, definitely more subtle building, and for some things I think they missed opportunities by being too subtle

Opening portion

I really hated the symmetry of EVERYONE converging as once, ESPECIALLY when you don't have everyone truly reconnecting. The whole "We've made it to Tar Valon" then "Finally, we're at Tar Valon" to "Oh look through those trees, we've stumbled across Tar Valon!" was too much for me in quick succession. ESPECIALLY since only 1 character met up with others, they should have spaced this more

M/R

Overall, not a ton happening here, but what they did do was actually pretty good. The weird interaction with Logain was well done. I did not expect to like Loial based on the still photos, but he really nailed the interpretation so far. But really the only storyline we've had is "Matt is deteriorating" and I'd like to see a little more

E/P

This was by FAR the best storyline of the episode. The whole tinkers locking arms was fantastic. ESPECIALLY because the Whitecloaks didn't fold. The defense/sacrifice needs to have some consequences, and I thought they nailed it. Egwene being "made clean" to see Child Valda was a strong choice, because of how icky the situation feels. The whole interaction between them was fantastic, and the wolves appearing was top notch. Glad to see that story finally coming around in a way that I thought would happen several episodes ago

M/L/N

Definitely the one a lot of people are struggling with. I agree the story moved too slowly here, but there was also some really good stuff. The problem is, I don't know if non-book readers are going to get the right messages out of it. I think this is supposed to hammer home the bond beween Aes Sedai/Warder, but I think many will take away that this guy specifically had a strong relationship, and that makes it boring to some. I think they almost stressed TOO much the personal aspect of it, and undersold the magical "bond" aspect of it. Lan's outburst of emotion was powerful, but again, I don't know if the incongruency of it will be jarring for people. I almost feel like if it happened 2 seasons from now, it would land a lot better once Lan's character is more established. I also felt like the Foresaken bit was a little too quick. I'd wager it didn't stick as much as it should. Or maybe its just the first of many references that will slowly build into a suspenseful thing

Conclusion

I actually don't know where they are going next. They've fully skipped over the middle and ending of book 1, and I'm not sure there is enough time left for building and rising action to make the book 1 climax the season 1 climax. Maybe they fully skip it and make an Ajah conflict the climax of S1? Not sure, but I'm ready for it

Still enjoying the season, but absolutely need a banger of an episode in the penultimate or the finale for this thing to have cultural impact power down the road

[Xenos]

4 hours ago, Tk3 said:

Episode 5

Overall thoughts

Not one of my favorite episodes, but I get what they did, and sometimes a palate clenaser is important. Definitely less action, definitely more subtle building, and for some things I think they missed opportunities by being too subtle

Opening portion

I really hated the symmetry of EVERYONE converging as once, ESPECIALLY when you don't have everyone truly reconnecting. The whole "We've made it to Tar Valon" then "Finally, we're at Tar Valon" to "Oh look through those trees, we've stumbled across Tar Valon!" was too much for me in quick succession. ESPECIALLY since only 1 character met up with others, they should have spaced this more

M/R

Overall, not a ton happening here, but what they did do was actually pretty good. The weird interaction with Logain was well done. I did not expect to like Loial based on the still photos, but he really nailed the interpretation so far. But really the only storyline we've had is "Matt is deteriorating" and I'd like to see a little more

E/P

This was by FAR the best storyline of the episode. The whole tinkers locking arms was fantastic. ESPECIALLY because the Whitecloaks didn't fold. The defense/sacrifice needs to have some consequences, and I thought they nailed it. Egwene being "made clean" to see Child Valda was a strong choice, because of how icky the situation feels. The whole interaction between them was fantastic, and the wolves appearing was top notch. Glad to see that story finally coming around in a way that I thought would happen several episodes ago

M/L/N

Definitely the one a lot of people are struggling with. I agree the story moved too slowly here, but there was also some really good stuff. The problem is, I don't know if non-book readers are going to get the right messages out of it. I think this is supposed to hammer home the bond beween Aes Sedai/Warder, but I think many will take away that this guy specifically had a strong relationship, and that makes it boring to some. I think they almost stressed TOO much the personal aspect of it, and undersold the magical "bond" aspect of it. Lan's outburst of emotion was powerful, but again, I don't know if the incongruency of it will be jarring for people. I almost feel like if it happened 2 seasons from now, it would land a lot better once Lan's character is more established. I also felt like the Foresaken bit was a little too quick. I'd wager it didn't stick as much as it should. Or maybe its just the first of many references that will slowly build into a suspenseful thing

Conclusion

I actually don't know where they are going next. They've fully skipped over the middle and ending of book 1, and I'm not sure there is enough time left for building and rising action to make the book 1 climax the season 1 climax. Maybe they fully skip it and make an Ajah conflict the climax of S1? Not sure, but I'm ready for it

Still enjoying the season, but absolutely need a banger of an episode in the penultimate or the finale for this thing to have cultural impact power down the road

Yeah I don’t know how they’re going to have the book’s ending either. But it should be noted that the final episode is called The Eye of the World.

[Woz]

@Broncofan - you're not wrong in your assessment of the later books, but be careful with what you're describing especially the big reveals.

They haven't even mentioned ta'veren to my recollection (I do get why: to prevent confusing the audience). It looks like to me they're going to avoid expanding the world too much until Season 2, but they might do something with the return of the Seat.

Oh, that reminds me: if you want a little knowledge of the organization of the Tower, the short for episode 5 gives you a bit of background. Quick recap of the ajahs and their point as well as the political organization. That might come in handy in the next episode or two.

 

Kind of surprised by the lack of response from the non-book readers regarding Perrin in this past episode. Definitely thought that was cool to see.

[Broncofan]

1 hour ago, Woz said:

@Broncofan - you're not wrong in your assessment of the later books, but be careful with what you're describing especially the big reveals.

They haven't even mentioned ta'veren to my recollection (I do get why: to prevent confusing the audience). It looks like to me they're going to avoid expanding the world too much until Season 2, but they might do something with the return of the Seat.

Oh, that reminds me: if you want a little knowledge of the organization of the Tower, the short for episode 5 gives you a bit of background. Quick recap of the ajahs and their point as well as the political organization. That might come in handy in the next episode or two.

 

Kind of surprised by the lack of response from the non-book readers regarding Perrin in this past episode. Definitely thought that was cool to see.

Iirc they mentioned the tave’ren 2x in ep1.   But yeah, I’ll stay mindful of the book reveals.   TV series could veer in another direction but never hurts to use the spoiler tag.  

[Oregon Ducks]

I thought we got a lot of really good character work in Episode 5 and the action we got was solid. Great acting performances. I still can’t get over how well this show was cast. 

[sammymvpknight]

6 hours ago, Oregon Ducks said:

I thought we got a lot of really good character work in Episode 5 and the action we got was solid. Great acting performances. I still can’t get over how well this show was cast. 

Mat has been great. Makes me wonder if he wasn’t recast because of personal issues or issues off the set. Disappointing 

[Oregon Ducks]

3 hours ago, sammymvpknight said:

Mat has been great. Makes me wonder if he wasn’t recast because of personal issues or issues off the set. Disappointing 

That’s what I’m guessing. When he was on social media he seemed kind of erratic - like current Mat from the show .

Hope he’s okay.

[Xenos]

1 hour ago, Oregon Ducks said:

That’s what I’m guessing. When he was on social media he seemed kind of erratic - like current Mat from the show .

Hope he’s okay.

Sounds like he went full method acting. Hopefully he’s okay also.

[THE DUKE]

I liked that we got a little more character and story development in this story, but still had several issues.

How are the dudes in white who hunt Aes Saedi so close to the white tower without them, you know, slaughtering all of them for burning their sisters after cutting off their hands?

I did think the Perrin/Egg portion of the show worked best, and the wolves thing paid off.  Didn't really explain how he became the Beastmaster though. At this point i'm guessing that all of the main group is touching the one power in some way. Only thing that really bugged me about their part was, why didn't they kill the main guy? Stabbed him in the shoulder, heard noises outside, and ran to them.  Cut his ******* throat.

The whole suicide and grieving thing would have worked better with about twice as much setup as they had, if not more. At the end of the day, he was a side character who's sole purpose seems to reiterate the close bond between Aes Saedi and their Warder.  If this happened in episode 8 as opposed to four it would have had a chance to work much much better.

We got a little more of the politics of the Aes Saedi, which is really where most of the show is pointing towards, but it needs fleshed out quite a bit more.

What's up with the random ogre who knows how to find people? I'm assuming whatever he was calling Rand is going to come much more into play.

Solid episode for the world building and character development, which I think would have been a better foundation had they ditched the suicide angle and how much time they devoted to it.

[PrplChilPill]

On 12/3/2021 at 12:33 PM, Tk3 said:

Episode 5

Overall thoughts

Not one of my favorite episodes, but I get what they did, and sometimes a palate clenaser is important. Definitely less action, definitely more subtle building, and for some things I think they missed opportunities by being too subtle

Opening portion

I really hated the symmetry of EVERYONE converging as once, ESPECIALLY when you don't have everyone truly reconnecting. The whole "We've made it to Tar Valon" then "Finally, we're at Tar Valon" to "Oh look through those trees, we've stumbled across Tar Valon!" was too much for me in quick succession. ESPECIALLY since only 1 character met up with others, they should have spaced this more

M/R

Overall, not a ton happening here, but what they did do was actually pretty good. The weird interaction with Logain was well done. I did not expect to like Loial based on the still photos, but he really nailed the interpretation so far. But really the only storyline we've had is "Matt is deteriorating" and I'd like to see a little more

E/P

This was by FAR the best storyline of the episode. The whole tinkers locking arms was fantastic. ESPECIALLY because the Whitecloaks didn't fold. The defense/sacrifice needs to have some consequences, and I thought they nailed it. Egwene being "made clean" to see Child Valda was a strong choice, because of how icky the situation feels. The whole interaction between them was fantastic, and the wolves appearing was top notch. Glad to see that story finally coming around in a way that I thought would happen several episodes ago

M/L/N

Definitely the one a lot of people are struggling with. I agree the story moved too slowly here, but there was also some really good stuff. The problem is, I don't know if non-book readers are going to get the right messages out of it. I think this is supposed to hammer home the bond beween Aes Sedai/Warder, but I think many will take away that this guy specifically had a strong relationship, and that makes it boring to some. I think they almost stressed TOO much the personal aspect of it, and undersold the magical "bond" aspect of it. Lan's outburst of emotion was powerful, but again, I don't know if the incongruency of it will be jarring for people. I almost feel like if it happened 2 seasons from now, it would land a lot better once Lan's character is more established. I also felt like the Foresaken bit was a little too quick. I'd wager it didn't stick as much as it should. Or maybe its just the first of many references that will slowly build into a suspenseful thing

Conclusion

I actually don't know where they are going next. They've fully skipped over the middle and ending of book 1, and I'm not sure there is enough time left for building and rising action to make the book 1 climax the season 1 climax. Maybe they fully skip it and make an Ajah conflict the climax of S1? Not sure, but I'm ready for it

Still enjoying the season, but absolutely need a banger of an episode in the penultimate or the finale for this thing to have cultural impact power down the road

I think the bond is hammered home very strongly. My wife hasn't read the books, it is 100% clear to her. It isn't subtle at all. 

Great episode, really. I like the quiet moments here a lot. We actually get to care about the characters, unlike Foundation where no one cares about a single character...

[PrplChilPill]

1 hour ago, THE DUKE said:

I liked that we got a little more character and story development in this story, but still had several issues.

How are the dudes in white who hunt Aes Saedi so close to the white tower without them, you know, slaughtering all of them for burning their sisters after cutting off their hands?

I did think the Perrin/Egg portion of the show worked best, and the wolves thing paid off.  Didn't really explain how he became the Beastmaster though. At this point i'm guessing that all of the main group is touching the one power in some way. Only thing that really bugged me about their part was, why didn't they kill the main guy? Stabbed him in the shoulder, heard noises outside, and ran to them.  Cut his ******* throat.

The whole suicide and grieving thing would have worked better with about twice as much setup as they had, if not more. At the end of the day, he was a side character who's sole purpose seems to reiterate the close bond between Aes Saedi and their Warder.  If this happened in episode 8 as opposed to four it would have had a chance to work much much better.

We got a little more of the politics of the Aes Saedi, which is really where most of the show is pointing towards, but it needs fleshed out quite a bit more.

What's up with the random ogre who knows how to find people? I'm assuming whatever he was calling Rand is going to come much more into play.

Solid episode for the world building and character development, which I think would have been a better foundation had they ditched the suicide angle and how much time they devoted to it.

Your first point is my only real issue....they are a day from the Tower (I think) and no one knows?

Also....either Moiraine's spies suck, or she knows people are there already and we just haven't heard...