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Trevor Lawrence is looking like a bad pick for the Jags

notthatbluestuff

By notthatbluestuff
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LinderFournette

LinderFournette

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1 hour ago, Dr A W Niloc said:

If nothing else, this should settle the debate about whether to take the messiah QB or the supporting cast first.

I think it doesn't.   You don't pass on a franchise QB when you don't have a franchise QB. Cuz if we change the choice to Pitts over Lawrence your looking for a QB this year and not looking good for that position this year so now your hinging hope onto the 2023 qb class

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Uncle Buck

Uncle Buck

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Dr A W Niloc said:

If nothing else, this should settle the debate about whether to take the messiah QB or the supporting cast first.

Not even close.  When you get a chance to draft a QB like Trevor Lawrence, you jump at the chance every time.  You can always add supporting pieces later.  How many mediocre teams are out there who did it the other way around and spent a decade looking for, and still not finding a QB like that?  The Vikings have been trying since 1978 to find a comparable replacement for Fran Tarkenton, and they still haven't found one.

I'll take my chances with a Trevor Lawrence every single time.  I can live with a year or two of ugly football until we build up the rest of the roster.  We have the most important piece to the puzzle now, and that's a huge leg up on the competition, IMO.

Edited by Uncle Buck
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TecmoSuperJoe

TecmoSuperJoe

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33 minutes ago, Uncle Buck said:

Not even close.  When you get a chance to draft a QB like Trevor Lawrence, you jump at the chance every time.  You can always add supporting pieces later.  How many mediocre teams are out there who did it the other way around and spent a decade looking for, and still not finding a QB like that?  The Vikings have been trying since 1978 to find a comparable replacement for Fran Tarkenton, and they still haven't found one.

I'll take my chances with a Trevor Lawrence every single time.  I can live with a year or two of ugly football until we build up the rest of the roster.  We have the most important piece to the puzzle now, and that's a huge leg up on the competition, IMO.

In addition to this, it's only Lawrence's first year on a team with a terrible roster headlined by one of the worst coaching hires in NFL history. 

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fluhartz

fluhartz

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Agreed... he is surrounded by a horrible team and had a coach leading them in the wrong direction.Their 2nd pick was they one that was the killer (not because he got hurt) it was just they already had a good RB and could have picked someone that could have really helped the team...  They have many needs and RB wasn't one of the big ones. 

I don't really care, I am a Bengals fan....just an outside observation... 

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Dr A W Niloc

Dr A W Niloc

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49 minutes ago, Uncle Buck said:

Not even close.  When you get a chance to draft a QB like Trevor Lawrence, you jump at the chance every time.

     What if, like so many before him, this 1st overall pick isn't everything the Talking Heads said he was?  What about this NFL season should convince us that any of the "stellar" 2021 QBs taken in the top 11 are franchise QBs, let alone the Value Added Savior that Lawrence was billed as?

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 You can always add supporting pieces later.

     Not if the same people who got the team into this mess are the ones choosing and developing the players we hope will pull us out of this mess.  

Quote

 How many mediocre teams are out there who did it the other way around and spent a decade looking for, and still not finding a QB like that?  

     You mean like Philadelphia, Baltimore and others who won Super Bowls while they "waited"?

     We bear in mind that we are not talking about "mediocre" teams.  We are talking about squads so awful they are drafting first (or close to it).

     Would the 7-9 2020 Patriots qualify as a "mediocre" team?  How are they doing with the QB they took 15th, 5th among QBs?  Which team has the brighter future going forward?

     Imagine Lawrence with good coaching, OTs who can actually block, WRs who can stay healthy, a N-S RB, and some vestige of a defense.  Hoping this front office is going to turn around and produce these assets soon is like waving a lantern at a runaway train.  I am an optimist but this rebuild will take at least four years, starting after  they install competent management and coaching. 

     Trevor Lawrence may yet become a franchise QB, but not for this  franchise. 

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Uncle Buck

Uncle Buck

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14 minutes ago, Dr A W Niloc said:

     What if, like so many before him, this 1st overall pick isn't everything the Talking Heads said he was?  What about this NFL season should convince us that any of the "stellar" 2021 QBs taken in the top 11 are franchise QBs, let alone the Value Added Savior that Lawrence was billed as?

We are not quite one season into their careers, and they are playing with pretty bad supporting casts.  I'm certainly not making any guarantees with any of these guys, so I don't think anyone should be "convinced" at this point.  However, if you start with good quarterback prospects, it gives you a better chance of success.
 

     Not if the same people who got the team into this mess are the ones choosing and developing the players we hope will pull us out of this mess.  

I totally agree with that.  If you have losers in the front office, you have to clean them all out.  Our hope in Jacksonville was that they did that, but it didn't work out that way.  We dumped him, and will hopefully do the same with the GM.  You try, and if that plan fails, you try again.
 

     You mean like Philadelphia, Baltimore and others who won Super Bowls while they "waited"?

Sure, there will be outliers, but I'm talking about getting a Brady/Manning/Brees type, who gets you to the playoffs every year for 10-15 years.  That didn't happen with the teams you mentioned. 

 

     We bear in mind that we are not talking about "mediocre" teams.  We are talking about squads so awful they are drafting first (or close to it).

I guess that's where I misunderstood.  Either way though, I am a big proponent of going after a great QB when one becomes available and within reach.

 

     Would the 7-9 2020 Patriots qualify as a "mediocre" team?  How are they doing with the QB they took 15th, 5th among QBs?  Which team has the brighter future going forward?

The Patriots are a special case because they have the greatest head coach in the history of the game.  The track record of his system speaks for itself, so you have to assume it is possible for that head coach to continue to accomplish things that nobody else seems able to. 

At the same time, I do think it is fair to say that they were very mediocre in 2020 because they were depleted of talent.  Time will tell if Bill Belichick will be able to lift that team with all of their nice off season additions to success without a HOF caliber quarterback.  Maybe, maybe not.  I certainly like their chances more with Tom Brady under center than with a rookie Mac Jones.


     Imagine Lawrence with good coaching, OTs who can actually block, WRs who can stay healthy, a N-S RB, and some vestige of a defense.  Hoping this front office is going to turn around and produce these assets soon is like waving a lantern at a runaway train.  I am an optimist but this rebuild will take at least four years, starting after they install competent management and coaching. 

     Trevor Lawrence may yet become a franchise QB, but not for this  franchise. 

We'll see.  I'm sure not expecting that Trent Baalke will be able to turn things around.  My hope is that he is replaced and we start fresh with a competent GM and head coach.  If we can do that, I could see this team making the playoffs in a couple years, and maybe making a deep playoff run the year after that.  It will take some doing, but I think it's very possible, and having Trevor Lawrence on the roster definitely increases our chances.

 

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pwny

pwny

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11 hours ago, fluhartz said:

Agreed... he is surrounded by a horrible team and had a coach leading them in the wrong direction.Their 2nd pick was they one that was the killer (not because he got hurt) it was just they already had a good RB and could have picked someone that could have really helped the team...  They have many needs and RB wasn't one of the big ones. 

I don't really care, I am a Bengals fan....just an outside observation... 

I still disagree with this. I love James Robinson, and think he’s one of the better runners in the league. He grew up in the same neighborhood my wife did, and went to college where my wife got her doctorate. He’s the hometown kid for our family, playing for my favorite team. I’m pretty confident I’m the only person on this forum who drafted James Robinson in my fantasy leagues last year instead of relying on waivers to get him. So I say this as probably the biggest Stan for James Robinson you will ever meet. He’s a fantastic player who can be a top ten runner for a while. His vision is impeccable, and his ability to gain yards after contact consistently is statistically the best in the league. But he has no speed to take the top off a defense, and is essentially a void as a receiver, and it really constricts what you can do with a forward thinking offense if he is the only high end talent at RB.

ETN wasn’t drafted to be a replacement for James, but a complimentary piece. He was supposed to be what Cordarrelle Patterson has been this year, what Percy Harvin was for Urban in college, what Alvin Kamara is. He was supposed to be a dynamic piece that opened up the offense, gave Lawrence an outlet receiver, and added speed to an offense that’s probably the slowest in the league. James and ETN was supposed to be a long haul version of Ingram and Kamara, and if that works having a set of players that can take that level of pressure off of Trevor would have been invaluable for the young QB.

Provided ETN is capable of being the player they envisioned him being, the problem wasn’t drafting him. He fit as a piece to addressing the biggest need on offense. The problem was relying on ETN as the only piece to add speed to the offense. Not finding a way to get more receiving options before the 6th round was a massive mistake that came back to bite them big time, and the only weapon they missed out on between the ETN pick and their next was Rashod Bateman, so it’s really hard to point this this as the pick that they screwed up and didn’t give support to Trevor with.

The WR free agent class ended up being awful in their immediate returns so I guess they were smart to not make a play there. And it sounds like they at least tried for some TEs, but couldn’t get them to join. But they really needed to then spend some more of FAs at other spots so they could have focused more on the draft. The two Moores, Pat F, St Brown. Those guys were all available at picks we had, and all were in range of trade up opportunities. None of them have set the world on fire with top tier game changing production, but targeting a few guys like that probably would have given at least some help to this group. 

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