When does Belichick's seat start to get hot?

[seminoles1]

Anyone saying he could never fail enough to be pushed out or get on the hot seat...

Bobby Bowden never had a losing season and still got pushed out. He led FSU to the absolute peak of college football and was still told he was being replaced.

People have short memories, especially when the bottom line is being hurt.

[lancerman]

7 hours ago, Calamity_Cometh said:

He'll retire before enough time passes for him to accrue enough losses to get fired. And that's assuming the bottom falls out which I don't think it will.

This is pretty much the answer. Bill is pushing 70. He’ll walk away before he lets things get to the point of being pushed out 

[Dolphins1984]

Never. He's earned the right to leave on his own terms.

Edited October 8, 2021 by Dolphins1984

[TheKillerNacho]

answer to the OP: literally never.

[NYRaider]

10 hours ago, seminoles1 said:

Anyone saying he could never fail enough to be pushed out or get on the hot seat...

F never had a losing season and still got pushed out. He led FSU to the absolute peak of college football and was still told he was being replaced.

People have short memories, especially when the bottom line is being hurt.

Much different situations though. FSU was successful under Bowden but they won 2 national championships in 34 years with him at the helm and he was like 79 years old when they decided to go in a different direction. Isn't Bill more or less in charge of the entire team? And he seems to have a great relationship with Robert Kraft. Bill will be 70 years old after this season so I don't expect that he'll be coaching for much longer either way. If the season continues at its current trajectory I think they'll go all in again next year and then Bill will retire. 

[seminoles1]

9 hours ago, NYRaider said:

Much different situations though. FSU was successful under Bowden but they won 2 national championships in 34 years with him at the helm and he was like 79 years old when they decided to go in a different direction. Isn't Bill more or less in charge of the entire team? And he seems to have a great relationship with Robert Kraft. Bill will be 70 years old after this season so I don't expect that he'll be coaching for much longer either way. If the season continues at its current trajectory I think they'll go all in again next year and then Bill will retire. 

They were the best program in the country for 15 straight years and competed for the national championship every season. He built that program up from nothing into an absolute powerhouse. If he can be pushed out, then anyone can be pushed out.

[notthatbluestuff]

12 hours ago, TheKillerNacho said:

answer to the OP: literally never.

That’s absurd. 

[NYRaider]

36 minutes ago, seminoles1 said:

They were the best program in the country for 15 straight years and competed for the national championship every season. He built that program up from nothing into an absolute powerhouse. If he can be pushed out, then anyone can be pushed out.

Bobby Bowden was 80 years old and FSU was 73-42 in his final 9 seasons leading the program with 5+ losses in 4/5 years when he was forced out. The program also had Jimbo Fisher on the staff and Bowden himself called Jimbo the head coach in waiting 2 years before he retired. IIRC Bowden was the second oldest coach in college football history when he stepped down and the program had been average for years/was trending down. 

Bill has 1 losing season in like 2 decades and is also the Patriots GM. I really don't see any scenario that they fire him, yes the 1-3 start isn't ideal but 2 of those losses have come by a total of 3 points, including a game they should've just won against the Super Bowl champions with a rookie QB. 

[seminoles1]

31 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Bobby Bowden was 80 years old and FSU was 73-42 in his final 9 seasons leading the program with 5+ losses in 4/5 years when he was forced out. The program also had Jimbo Fisher on the staff and Bowden himself called Jimbo the head coach in waiting 2 years before he retired. IIRC Bowden was the second oldest coach in college football history when he stepped down and the program had been average for years/was trending down. 

Bill has 1 losing season in like 2 decades and is also the Patriots GM. I really don't see any scenario that they fire him, yes the 1-3 start isn't ideal but 2 of those losses have come by a total of 3 points, including a game they should've just won against the Super Bowl champions with a rookie QB. 

Bowden didn't have any losing seasons. He won bowl games in those last 9 years. He still recruited well.

I mean...do the Patriots not have McDaniels waiting around for the job like Jimbo? Maybe not an official "Head Coach in Waiting" title to go with it (Bowden acknowledged it, but he just played along to not ruffle more feathers. He didn't leave on his own terms at all), but McDaniels didn't take head coaching jobs over the last couple seasons for a reason.

I'm not saying it's likely because it does take an extended dip and a coach as good as BB won't likely continue to put out a mediocre product, but this kind of situation has happened. If the Patriots have a losing season this year and another next season, then I wouldn't doubt that his seat gets a little hot and people start asking questions about it.

I'm only bringing this up to show to the people who say it'll never happen and it's impossible that it is in fact possible for an all-time great coach to not only be on the hot seat, but to be forced out.

Edited October 8, 2021 by seminoles1

[Calamity_Cometh]

1 hour ago, notthatbluestuff said:

That’s absurd. 

So is 8 Super Bowl wins, a 16-0 season, and coaching the greatest quarterback that has lived.

[NYRaider]

56 minutes ago, seminoles1 said:

Bowden didn't have any losing seasons. He won bowl games in those last 9 years. He still recruited well.

I mean...do the Patriots not have McDaniels waiting around for the job like Jimbo? Maybe not an official "Head Coach in Waiting" title to go with it (Bowden acknowledged it, but he just played along to not ruffle more feathers. He didn't leave on his own terms at all), but McDaniels didn't take head coaching jobs over the last couple seasons for a reason.

I'm not saying it's likely because it does take an extended dip and a coach as good as BB won't likely continue to put out a mediocre product, but this kind of situation has happened. If the Patriots have a losing season this year and another next season, then I wouldn't doubt that his seat gets a little hot and people start asking questions about it.

I'm only bringing this up to show to the people who say it'll never happen and it's impossible that it is in fact possible for an all-time great coach to not only be on the hot seat, but to be forced out.

Bowden didn't have any losing seasons but the program was definitely on the decline, no 10+ win seasons or top 10 finishes in his final 6 years and weren't they facing sanctions due to academic fraud?

Josh McDaniels couldn't even make it through his second season in Denver before he got fired. Bowden/Bill's situations are completely different because Bill is literally the head honcho in the Patriots organization, he's the head coach and GM. Bowden was a great coach but the administration at FSU still had the final say on his coaching career, Kraft would have to fire Bill. 

The team went 7-9 last year with Cam Newton throwing 8 TD/10 INT. The 1-3 start obviously isn't ideal but they were inches away from beating Tom Brady and the Super Bowl champions a week ago and have one of the best defenses in football. They play at Houston, then get the Jets and Cowboys at home, in 3 weeks they could easily be. sitting at 4-3. Mac has been up and down but the Saints and Buccaneers literally have the 1st/2nd best run defenses in the league. They'll win games this year with their run game and defense like they did last year.

[notthatbluestuff]

49 minutes ago, Calamity_Cometh said:

So is 8 Super Bowl wins, a 16-0 season, and coaching the greatest quarterback that has lived.

None of that has anything to do with how he's viewed at present. 

[Calamity_Cometh]

12 minutes ago, notthatbluestuff said:

None of that has anything to do with how he's viewed at present. 

But it does. It is how he's viewed. I think you mean how he is performing at present. But anyone who views him in the present views those accolades.

[seminoles1]

17 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Bowden didn't have any losing seasons but the program was definitely on the decline, no 10+ win seasons or top 10 finishes in his final 6 years and weren't they facing sanctions due to academic fraud?

Josh McDaniels couldn't even make it through his second season in Denver before he got fired. Bowden/Bill's situations are completely different because Bill is literally the head honcho in the Patriots organization, he's the head coach and GM. Bowden was a great coach but the administration at FSU still had the final say on his coaching career, Kraft would have to fire Bill. 

The team went 7-9 last year with Cam Newton throwing 8 TD/10 INT. The 1-3 start obviously isn't ideal but they were inches away from beating Tom Brady and the Super Bowl champions a week ago and have one of the best defenses in football. They play at Houston, then get the Jets and Cowboys at home, in 3 weeks they could easily be. sitting at 4-3. Mac has been up and down but the Saints and Buccaneers literally have the 1st/2nd best run defenses in the league. They'll win games this year with their run game and defense like they did last year.

This is what the debate is, how long it takes if the losing continues. If you're argument is BB won't continue to lose, then okay, obviously he won't be put on the hot seat if they turn it around.

I'm sure in 2002 FSU fans and the AD didn't think the football team would continue to fall well short of expectations. But they did and a legendary coach got pushed out. It took years, but it happened. If the Patriots continue to miss the playoffs and Kraft isn't seeing the extra revenue from extra games, jersey sales, concessions, etc. that he wouldn't consider moving on? I do believe it would take a while, but if they finish this season and next season with a losing record then the questions will come.

This is all hypothetical, man. That's what the whole point of this thread is, how long it would take for someone like BB to deal with some heat. There's no guarantee that he continues to have losing seasons just like there's no guarantee he'll turn things around and start putting out contenders again. If the losing continues then everything you described about Bowden will fit with BB.

My point remains the same: it's not impossible if they continue to be mediocre and there's examples that prove legends can be pushed out if they fall short of previous highs. Just because he's the GM as well doesn't make this impossible. This thread is simply asking how long it would take, and people saying it never would ever under any circumstance are plain wrong.

[NYRaider]

2 minutes ago, seminoles1 said:

My point remains the same: it's not impossible if they continue to be mediocre and there's examples that prove legends can be pushed out if they fall short of previous highs. Just because he's the GM as well doesn't make this impossible. This thread is simply asking how long it would take, and people saying it never would ever under any circumstance are plain wrong.

I agree with that, I don't think the Patriots would publicly fire him though, he'll probably just retire. If they have another disappointing season I could see him going yolo mode and trading for Watson or Jimmy G, if that doesn't work, he'll ride off and leave it up to McDaniels.