The search for a new Head Coach

[BobbyPhil1781]

6 minutes ago, true2form said:

Fine line both sides are walking in the Harbaugh dispute.  A couple months ago his cache was at an all-time low.  Win a couple of games and poof, here we are.

As a Buckeye "homer" myself, I'm torn on this.  Harbaugh gets a ton of flack for not beating OSU, but he has done pretty well considering what he walked into.  No one can dispute that he has gotten the most out of his players, even the ones he didn't recruit early on.  Which btw, were really good and should've beaten OSU in 2016.  

Because he kept losing to OSU and MSU for that matter, it's big news here in Big 10 country.  For you SEC folk, it would be like Auburn losing to LSU and Bama all the time.  Even Auburn is 2-6 vs Bama the last 8 games.  You put up a big goose egg against your biggest rival and people are going to rightfully say you can't win the big one.

He's been there for 7 years and what has he accomplished besides beating teams that recruit 2* and 3* prospects which he should beat? Yeah, he beat the odds this year. Great. That doesn't dismiss everything the prior 6 years.

He loses majority of the games to rivals, he loses majority of bowl games, he loses majority of games playing AP top 10 teams while constantly having top 10 recruiting classes. Those are facts. 

People are putting more weight into beating chump teams b/c they want the guy b/c of his name and need that nice warm blanket to make them feel better about it. There are no chump teams in the NFL. As I've stated prior, it's possible he could make us a better team but there's also a chance he's like Mike Zimmer and the game simply has passed him by. We don't know so why offer $12 mill and be stuck w/ that when we have proven commodities in the NFL who are already succeeding? 

[BobbyPhil1781]

4 minutes ago, Jraider91 said:

How did your guy Urban do in the bigs? 

I'm not an Urban guy, dude who doesn't know the difference between a "big board" and a "mock draft" and thinks Aaron Donald is a "run stopper" and is "easy to find".

I'm happy he brought OSU and title but when **** went down, and it was proven, I jumped off that boat. You keep trying to get me in that "gotcha" moment though. I'm sure you'll succeed at some point.

Edited January 19, 2022 by BobbyPhil1781

[Jraider91]

1 minute ago, BobbyPhil1781 said:

I'm not an Urban guy, dude who doesn't know the difference between a "big board" and a "mock draft" and thinks Aaron Donald is a "run stopper" and is "easy to find".

I'm happy he brought OSU and title but when **** went down, and it was proven, I jumped off that boat. You keep trying to get me in that "gotcha" moment though. I'm sure you'll succeed at some point.

Lol mr dishonest strikes again. Your football knowledge is very very poor. Funny to read you get humiliated time and again though 

[Chali21]

11 minutes ago, true2form said:

Fine line both sides are walking in the Harbaugh dispute.  A couple months ago his cache was at an all-time low.  Win a couple of games and poof, here we are.

As a Buckeye "homer" myself, I'm torn on this.  Harbaugh gets a ton of flack for not beating OSU, but he has done pretty well considering what he walked into.  No one can dispute that he has gotten the most out of his players, even the ones he didn't recruit early on.  Which btw, were really good and should've beaten OSU in 2016.  

Because he kept losing to OSU and MSU for that matter, it's big news here in Big 10 country.  For you SEC folk, it would be like Auburn losing to LSU and Bama all the time.  Even Auburn is 2-6 vs Bama the last 8 games.  You put up a big goose egg against your biggest rival and people are going to rightfully say you can't win the big one.

Harbaugh is and always has been a winner.  That doesn't mean he's a championship caliber coach, but that does mean he's had winning records everywhere he's been.

I think he is clearly the most successful coach available for us to look at.  That doesn't guarantee he will do well with the Raiders, but there are no guarantees for anyone and most of the BS hindsight talk comes either way.

If Mark is interested, and he should be,  I have no problem with that at all.  I would much rather have him as the coach than a retread, losing record, second chance kinda guy. 

Your final paragraph is where I’m at, hiring an up and coming oc with a world of talent like Leftwich is really silly in my eyes because he won’t have that roster or Arians to lean on. Frazier, Bowels, Bradley and the like have all either been bad or mediocre in their tenures as head coaches. As for Rich, players love him and that’s nice on a personal level but they didn’t produce more than 20 points in more games than not. Going into the playoffs with negative point differential is not inspiring to me in a head coach. 
 

I will say this though, if the Raiders miss out on Harbaugh I’d like them to take a look at Mike McDaniels. He seems like a young sharp guy who’s had to make do with nothing on the offense. What him and Shanahan did with Deebo was incredible. That’s what the Raiders needed this past season when they lost everything, to adjust. The niners have been ravaged with injuries but here they are about to play Green Bay with a shot to go to the championship game. 

[true2form]

33 minutes ago, BobbyPhil1781 said:

He's been there for 7 years and what has he accomplished besides beating teams that recruit 2* and 3* prospects which he should beat? Yeah, he beat the odds this year. Great. That doesn't dismiss everything the prior 6 years.

He loses majority of the games to rivals, he loses majority of bowl games, he loses majority of games playing AP top 10 teams while constantly having top 10 recruiting classes. Those are facts. 

People are putting more weight into beating chump teams b/c they want the guy b/c of his name and need that nice warm blanket to make them feel better about it. There are no chump teams in the NFL. As I've stated prior, it's possible he could make us a better team but there's also a chance he's like Mike Zimmer and the game simply has passed him by. We don't know so why offer $12 mill and be stuck w/ that when we have proven commodities in the NFL who are already succeeding? 

I'm not disagreeing with you.  He could have and arguably should have done a lot better than he did.  However, I also take into account where they were when he got there and basically the last 20 years where Michigan has been.  He has elevated them back to at least respectable atm.  Teams like Penn St, Wisconsin, and even MSU have been more of a challenger the last decade. Can he keep them there, I don't know?  This is also 95% of college football teams too though.  Bama.......OSU/Clemson........................................every other year contenders............................................................................................everyone else.  Most schools aren't consistently in it.

You can't deny that they are better now as an "organization" than they were before he got there.  You also can't deny that OSU wasn't/isn't more talented than them over his years there.  I don't give him a ton of credit for this year, any one who knows better, knows this was a huge down year for OSU.  Most fans don't recognize that. 

He has elevated the program in respect and win total on the national stage. His previous NFL and college stops were also the same way. Better when he left than when he got there.

[true2form]

36 minutes ago, Chali21 said:

Your final paragraph is where I’m at, hiring an up and coming oc with a world of talent like Leftwich is really silly in my eyes because he won’t have that roster or Arians to lean on. Frazier, Bowels, Bradley and the like have all either been bad or mediocre in their tenures as head coaches. As for Rich, players love him and that’s nice on a personal level but they didn’t produce more than 20 points in more games than not. Going into the playoffs with negative point differential is not inspiring to me in a head coach. 
 

I will say this though, if the Raiders miss out on Harbaugh I’d like them to take a look at Mike McDaniels. He seems like a young sharp guy who’s had to make do with nothing on the offense. What him and Shanahan did with Deebo was incredible. That’s what the Raiders needed this past season when they lost everything, to adjust. The niners have been ravaged with injuries but here they are about to play Green Bay with a shot to go to the championship game. 

Yep, that's exactly where I am.  Harbaugh or fresh face.  If we want a Bowles or Frazier type, I'd rather just stick with Rich and focus on a new OC.

[RaidersAreOne]

 

 

[Jraider91]

10 minutes ago, true2form said:

Yep, that's exactly where I am.  Harbaugh or fresh face.  If we want a Bowles or Frazier type, I'd rather just stick with Rich and focus on a new OC.

Rich dumping his close friend Olsen ? Not likely

[BobbyPhil1781]

12 minutes ago, true2form said:

I'm not disagreeing with you.  He could have and arguably should have done a lot better than he did.  However, I also take into account where they were when he got there and basically the last 20 years where Michigan has been.  He has elevated them back to at least respectable atm.  Teams like Penn St, Wisconsin, and even MSU have been more of a challenger the last decade. Can he keep them there, I don't know?  This is also 95% of college football teams too though.  Bama.......OSU/Clemson........................................every other year contenders............................................................................................everyone else.  Most schools aren't consistently in it.

You can't deny that they are better now as an "organization" than they were before he got there.  You also can't deny that OSU wasn't/isn't more talented than them over his years there.  I don't give him a ton of credit for this year, any one who knows better, knows this was a huge down year for OSU.  Most fans don't recognize that. 

He has elevated the program in respect and win total on the national stage. His previous NFL and college stops were also the same way. Better when he left than when he got there.

As an OSU fan, you know of the prior coaches and that should speak more of where they've been lol. Michigan has always been an above average (if not more) landing spot for prospects. Is it premiere? No but they have gotten recruits and time and time again, they just don't do well.

They're absolutely better. Zero questions. I don't really care if he's beating up on teams that can't even muster 4* recruits though. He should be. I also agree it was a down year and predicted they would beat us this year (so much for me being a "homer" as some weirdo said earlier 🥺) but I also said Utah would as well and.... well, our offense will be insane next season.

He has elevated them this year, yes. He was a laughing stock last year and has been extremely underwhelming every other year.

My biggest gripe w/ him has nothing to do w/ him. Take his name out of the equation as well as where he coaches at. As I've stated, we're talking about a guy who can't beat rivals, can't beat other schools w/ similarly ranked recruiting classes, and can't win bowl games.  People are banking on this guy b/c of what he did in the past. If we hired him, this would be the THIRD coach this decade we've had relying on their past success and expecting it to take us to glory. It didn't work w/ Shell and it didn't work w/ Gruden. There's the saying "doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results" for a reason. 

Give me someone new, someone who's succeeding right now, and let's try that. I really want Brian Dabbol but I made a list earlier of people I'd prefer over Harbaugh.

[Jraider91]

49 minutes ago, Chali21 said:

Your final paragraph is where I’m at, hiring an up and coming oc with a world of talent like Leftwich is really silly in my eyes because he won’t have that roster or Arians to lean on. Frazier, Bowels, Bradley and the like have all either been bad or mediocre in their tenures as head coaches. As for Rich, players love him and that’s nice on a personal level but they didn’t produce more than 20 points in more games than not. Going into the playoffs with negative point differential is not inspiring to me in a head coach. 
 

I will say this though, if the Raiders miss out on Harbaugh I’d like them to take a look at Mike McDaniels. He seems like a young sharp guy who’s had to make do with nothing on the offense. What him and Shanahan did with Deebo was incredible. That’s what the Raiders needed this past season when they lost everything, to adjust. The niners have been ravaged with injuries but here they are about to play Green Bay with a shot to go to the championship game. 

Yeah this is a great post, but what are the odds Rich dumps Greg Olsen? They've been friends for decades 

[true2form]

32 minutes ago, Jraider91 said:

Rich dumping his close friend Olsen ? Not likely

Pretty sure he resigned. Gotta find it now.

[Jraider91]

Just now, true2form said:

Pretty sure he resigned. Gotta find it now.

Fake account

[true2form]

3 minutes ago, Jraider91 said:

Fake account

Figures

[true2form]

35 minutes ago, BobbyPhil1781 said:

As an OSU fan, you know of the prior coaches and that should speak more of where they've been lol. Michigan has always been an above average (if not more) landing spot for prospects. Is it premiere? No but they have gotten recruits and time and time again, they just don't do well.

They're absolutely better. Zero questions. I don't really care if he's beating up on teams that can't even muster 4* recruits though. He should be. I also agree it was a down year and predicted they would beat us this year (so much for me being a "homer" as some weirdo said earlier 🥺) but I also said Utah would as well and.... well, our offense will be insane next season.

He has elevated them this year, yes. He was a laughing stock last year and has been extremely underwhelming every other year.

My biggest gripe w/ him has nothing to do w/ him. Take his name out of the equation as well as where he coaches at. As I've stated, we're talking about a guy who can't beat rivals, can't beat other schools w/ similarly ranked recruiting classes, and can't win bowl games.  People are banking on this guy b/c of what he did in the past. If we hired him, this would be the THIRD coach this decade we've had relying on their past success and expecting it to take us to glory. It didn't work w/ Shell and it didn't work w/ Gruden. There's the saying "doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results" for a reason. 

Give me someone new, someone who's succeeding right now, and let's try that. I really want Brian Dabbol but I made a list earlier of people I'd prefer over Harbaugh.

Valid concerns and I get where you are coming from.  

When it all boils down to it, it's a risk either way.  Harbaugh has a track record and you can't say it's bad, even if you don't think it's great.

You can't say the same for a Dabol.  That's the difference.  

I'm up for either. I don't want the middle ground of a bad track record.

[big_palooka]

2 hours ago, true2form said:

Fine line both sides are walking in the Harbaugh dispute.  A couple months ago his cache was at an all-time low.  Win a couple of games and poof, here we are.

As a Buckeye "homer" myself, I'm torn on this.  Harbaugh gets a ton of flack for not beating OSU, but he has done pretty well considering what he walked into.  No one can dispute that he has gotten the most out of his players, even the ones he didn't recruit early on.  Which btw, were really good and should've beaten OSU in 2016.  

Because he kept losing to OSU and MSU for that matter, it's big news here in Big 10 country.  For you SEC folk, it would be like Auburn losing to LSU and Bama all the time.  Even Auburn is 2-6 vs Bama the last 8 games.  You put up a big goose egg against your biggest rival and people are going to rightfully say you can't win the big one.

Harbaugh is and always has been a winner.  That doesn't mean he's a championship caliber coach, but that does mean he's had winning records everywhere he's been.

I think he is clearly the most successful coach available for us to look at.  That doesn't guarantee he will do well with the Raiders, but there are no guarantees for anyone and most of the BS hindsight talk comes either way.

If Mark is interested, and he should be,  I have no problem with that at all.  I would much rather have him as the coach than a retread, losing record, second chance kinda guy. 

Thank you for a very level headed response being an Ohio St. fan. Refreshing and I agree. 

And that's my draw on Harbaugh. I would trust him to put together a staff that can develop some underachievers on the roster and identify the talent to compete yearly. And that's all I ask for. A coach that hates losing, can adjust and keep the team competitive year in and year out and maybe they get a shot at a Super Bowl along the line when it breaks right. 

Everyone else of the names out there (Bisaccia, Bowles, Frazier, Mayo) feel like treadmill coaches. Team would be in the same place for a long time, not great and not terrible.