Denver Broncos (the new old browns) @ Cleveland Browns - Thursday, 10/21 - 6:20 Mountain

[AnAngryAmerican]

3 hours ago, BroncoBruin said:

Looking ahead, is there any chance this team is sold before a new coaching staff is hired? It feels unlikely. So after saddling our new GM with a coaching staff on the hot seat, a new owner could end up with a GM and brand new coaching staff they didn’t hire. 😑

 

I commented on this somewhere. The team will almost certainly be sold before the new league year begins in March but it’s possible it’s not sold before “Black Monday,” creating the concern you have. 

Should Ellis/Elway/Paton decide to make a coaching change at any point, they will still have to payout the remainder of the staff as they have (at least Vic) a year left on their/his deal. That could lead the org to just decide to hang onto the staff for another year. Paton has apparently decided to give Vic & Co. this year to prove themselves but he could decide the new owner is entitled to the same. If that’s the case, it could hinder our chances at landing Rodgers or Wilson, as they won’t want to waste a season with a lame duck coaching staff. 

The sale of the team, or better said, the date of the sale of the team, is hanging like a 10,000 pound safe over this entire organization. 

[AnAngryAmerican]

20 minutes ago, broncosfan_101 said:

As someone who saw none of the camp reps…¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

Most media witnesses I read said it was super close, the consensus I would say leaned slightly towards Lock. But leaning slightly is far from definitive.

The only media member who was definitive that it be Teddy was Klis, which is probably because he knew who was going to win regardless. That and the fact that Klis has always been a proponent of QBs of Teddy’s ilk - cerebral with good intangibles but lacking the top physical traits - also likely colored his “analysis.” 

My beat reporter friend - someone you all know and respect - told me that he thought it was even, the staff preferred Teddy but he would have started with Drew and if he crapped the bed in the first month, made the switch then. He also stated what I’ve said all along, that the staff was going to go with the safe, reliable vet before the ink was dry on his contract; it was not a risk/reward calculus but rather one made out of desperation to win in September and set a positive tone around the team for when the going got tough with a tougher schedule and expected attrition due to injury. We see now how well that worked out. 

[lomaxgrUK]

Sorry, but this team isn't underperforming because the locker room thought Drew deserved the starting job over Teddy.

That's just wild, man.

My last comment on Drew vs Teddy, I promise.

[jsthomp2007]

I am watching Jerry McGuire thinking that we could use Cush right now. Give me some Cushlash

[bMiller031]

It will be tough to attract a reputable top-tier HC w/o some semblance of stability with ownership - let alone our QB situation.

[Broncofan]

Some good news.   We need Jeudy's ability to separate and win at all levels so badly.

 

[AnAngryAmerican]

6 hours ago, bMiller031 said:

It will be tough to attract a reputable top-tier HC w/o some semblance of stability with ownership - let alone our QB situation.

We had that problem when we hired Vic. I hope Ellis and the Bowlen kids recognize this because if they give any kind of a damn about the team they’ll sell before the turn of the year so we’re not over the barrel for another year and miss out on a good HC candidate and the Rodgers/Wilson sweepstakes.

[bMiller031]

10 hours ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

We had that problem when we hired Vic. I hope Ellis and the Bowlen kids recognize this because if they give any kind of a damn about the team they’ll sell before the turn of the year so we’re not over the barrel for another year and miss out on a good HC candidate and the Rodgers/Wilson sweepstakes.

I hope Paton operates with a “f*** it” mentality rather than awaiting resolution.  If he’s going to be here (which is TBD but I assume more likely than not) he should go get his HC and his QB. If he’s not here then there is nothing to be gained by a measured wait-and-see approach.

This org is comprised of people who have overstayed their welcome or used up all their personal equity - except Paton. He’s the only guy with any leash.  We need him to have some balls.

[AnAngryAmerican]

28 minutes ago, bMiller031 said:

I hope Paton operates with a “f*** it” mentality rather than awaiting resolution.  If he’s going to be here (which is TBD but I assume more likely than not) he should go get his HC and his QB. If he’s not here then there is nothing to be gained by a measured wait-and-see approach.

This org is comprised of people who have overstayed their welcome or used up all their personal equity - except Paton. He’s the only guy with any leash.  We need him to have some balls.

Very well said. 

[Broncofan]

5 hours ago, bMiller031 said:

I hope Paton operates with a “f*** it” mentality rather than awaiting resolution.  If he’s going to be here (which is TBD but I assume more likely than not) he should go get his HC and his QB. If he’s not here then there is nothing to be gained by a measured wait-and-see approach.

This org is comprised of people who have overstayed their welcome or used up all their personal equity - except Paton. He’s the only guy with any leash.  We need him to have some balls.

Let's assume that Paton is going to go after his HC, and go after his QB.   Let's also assume he'll likely do it the same way as he learned from Spielman and in MIN.

If we accept both premises, one thing I would be confident on - Paton will go hard after Russell Wilson and/or Aaron Rodgers. 

In the Spielman MIN era in 2006-2012 pre-GM and his GM era from 2012-present, we did see them draft QB's in Rd1 - but only when a vet option wasn't available.  They signed Brett Favre to be the guy in 2009-10.   When Teddy B went down, they went with the ill-fated Sam Bradford stop-gap trade (thinking they were close to contention) - and then went hard after Kirk Cousins.   Their Rd1 track record wasn't great, as they whiffed hard on Christian Ponder & then didn't get the guy Teddy Bridgewater (late Rd1, so different expectations, he wasn't a total miss, but he wasn't the answer, either).

Instead of concluding that DEN would be interested in Cousins,  I think the more compelling argument would be that Paton would value going after an A-Rod/Wilson level vet QB - the top guy available at the time.    Cousins was by FAR the best QB available, it wasn't even close (remember all those "I'd rather have Case Keenum at 18M AAV than Kirk Cousins at 25M AAV" debates?   Good times).   Same for Favre in 2009-10 - back then, you just didn't see QB's move and become available.     Obviously both were FA's, so there's that distinction - but in both years, Spielman went after the top impact guy.   

If Paton's sticking to the MIN MO, I'd say ARod / Wilson is most likely the QB they're going after.   Everything says it's just a matter of when, not if, Watson goes to MIA (assuming his legal issues don't block that).   So that leaves A-Rod/Wilson next offseason.   Most likely, they'll go with a HC selection that would make it attractive for either guy (because both have input on where they go - Wilson has a full no-trade clause, and A-Rod built in power with the latest holdout / agreement to return).   One of Wilson's biggest reasons for wanting out of SEA is he and HC Pete Carroll don't see eye to eye on the O philosophy (and SEA stubbornly keeps siding with Carroll).   I have no idea who that HC is, but I think it's pretty clear if either top-level QB is available (and the way things are going in SEA, it looks like both will be), if we think Paton is using his MIN experience to guide him, then Paton will be all in on A-Rod/Wilson over an iffy Rd1 draft class (especialy given the Ponder experience he witnessed firsthand, and to a lesser extent, Bridgewater).

And while we know Klis is the org mouthpiece, this is noteworthy - I agree with Renck in general that Wilson/A-Rod are better than 2022 Rd1 QB's who would be in our range (I think there's a reason why the Tua rumors got shot down quickly, too), it's just interesting he was quick to point this direction out:

 

Edited October 23, 2021 by Broncofan

[broncos_fan _from _uk]

On 10/22/2021 at 3:54 PM, lomaxgrUK said:

Sorry, but this team isn't underperforming because the locker room thought Drew deserved the starting job over Teddy.

That's just wild, man.

My last comment on Drew vs Teddy, I promise.

I agree, but I think the point germ was making was that whole situation with the fake competition is an example (one of many) of a poorly run locker room from an organizational culture perspective. 
 

when leaders say one thing and do another it makes those that work for them lose trust. Add in 3 years of the same message and the same lack of results and that’s how you lose a locker room and get an underperforming team. 

[lomaxgrUK]

On 10/24/2021 at 10:34 PM, broncos_fan _from _uk said:

I agree, but I think the point germ was making was that whole situation with the fake competition is an example (one of many) of a poorly run locker room from an organizational culture perspective. 
 

when leaders say one thing and do another it makes those that work for them lose trust. Add in 3 years of the same message and the same lack of results and that’s how you lose a locker room and get an underperforming team. 

I just don't see how you can call it a fake competition. They both got equal snaps and performed pretty equally. Even if people think Drew won slightly, I just cannot see how anyone in the lockerroom could call Teddy being given the starting job the end result of a fake competition.

I am also not too sure what other fake competitions have been ran in the past?

[lomaxgrUK]

Just got done watching the All 22 from the first quarter.

Some notes:

- Their first drive that went for a TD was the single worst LB production I have ever seen in the NFL. Both Strnad and Kizer just don't have a clue how to deal with the gap assignment pressure that a zone run blocking scheme puts on a Defense

- The Browns, like everyone else before them, don't have any issue with single blocking our interior DL. Purcell had a couple of wins (forced a holding call on one) but then had a missed tackle yet again. Thanks to Mike Shanahan, we all know what happens to a non-disruptive DL that just flow with zone blocks - easy money in the run game

- The Browns have done their homework on our zone calls from our base Defense. They manipulated our personnel packages to get us in our base 3-4 Defense vs a mixture of 12 (1 RB, 2 TE) and 21 (1 RB, 1 FB, 1 TE) personnel.
Now, usually, a base 3-4 should be fine against these packages. The problems are:

a) we don't move our CB's in our base zone coverages. This means when the Browns spread Njoku out, he's matched up on a CB, therefore leaving a WR zoned over a Safety / LB. Everyone lost their marbles with Von over Claypool - it happened again vs Landry in the 1st quarter of this game, for a simple pitch and toss for 5 yards in the flat
b) even match ups like 12/21 personnel vs base 3-4 will almost always mean one of your LBs is responsible for the RB out of the backfield. When your head is spinning (certainly in Kizer's case, most likely in Strnad's case), having to know a coverage responsibility is the most difficult aspect

In one instance where Njoku aligned in the slot, Reed had to align over him in our zone look. This gave Shelby Harris the edge responsibility, and the Browns cut back zone run had Harris lose his contain and go for an easy 10. Just completely outschemed by Stefanski in the 1st quarter

- I mentioned it after the game; there is such a clear ideological plan from the Browns on Offense. Everything is in sync. Their run plays look like their pass plays. Their pass plays look like their run plays. It just keeps our (poorly talented) front 7 guessing and Keenum has had all day as a result

- Our Offense, on the other hand, has no identity. I just can't see drive to drive what the plan is. To be fair, the one drive where we're getting some movement in the run game, Williams juggles a screen play that would've gone for 10 but instead went for 1, Risner can't get to Clowney on the trap block before he blows up the run for no gain, forcing 3rd and 9 which Teddy underthrows (Brown showed good speed on the route)

- I mentioned in the last game that Hinton has some moves out of the slot; check this route out from the slot

 

Kid has talent for sure

[lomaxgrUK]

2nd quarter a bit of a non event really.

The Browns had a 13 play drive that went 45 yards and missed the FG. We actually played decent Defense sans a couple of communications between ILB and OLB. 

Cooper flashed with a couple of pressures, but he whiffed on his chance to hit Keenum for a sack/fumble on the Browns 5. Instead, Keenum ducked under his sack attempt and managed to throw it away.

I definitely underappreciated how well Pat Surtain played in the first half. He's so incredibly talented.

We generated a pressure on our IDL when Shelby Harris and Jones ran a game inside.

Offensively, we only had two drives - both 3 and out. The first one saw us have a false start on Noah Fant then ran a stupid WR screen to Williams lined up at WR then went for no gain. This Offense ain't getting out of a 2nd and 15 hole.

The second drive saw a breakdown in protection, as a 5 man blitz saw an unblocked DB force Bridgewater to throw it away on 3rd and long.

On the whole, I still think our OL is playing well in pass pro. Pretty quiet from Garrett, including Bolles getting him on the ground at one point. Again, hot take, but I think Massie is playing good Football. He's so strong when his punch hits a pass rusher.

[lomaxgrUK]

 

Great stuff as ever from Tim Jenkins.