Week 8 GDT: Steelers at Browns

[BrownsDog23]

3 hours ago, DawgX said:

I reach my rational conclusions based on your posting history.

Some people want certain players to fail just to say they were right about them, despite the fact that it would hurt their team.

There's legit criticisms you could make about Baker, but yours are often just wrong or hyperbolic. Just like how you said it was Baker's fault for those drops today, despite that 100% not being the case. Yet you won't ever concede that you're wrong.

🤔

[hornbybrown]

6 hours ago, Kiwibrown said:

I thought he played well today, his receivers did nothing to help him. 

Yeah he did play pretty well today, but he only sees WR’s that are open if it’s who he is expecting to be open. Some of those drops today were on plays were he had better options. There are multiple plays every game where he isn’t seeing very wide open options. Some of these plays turn out well, but you got to see the whole field which he doesn’t 

[Kiwibrown]

26 minutes ago, hornbybrown said:

Yeah he did play pretty well today, but he only sees WR’s that are open if it’s who he is expecting to be open. Some of those drops today were on plays were he had better options. There are multiple plays every game where he isn’t seeing very wide open options. Some of these plays turn out well, but you got to see the whole field which he doesn’t 

Without drops he completes 87% of his passes today. Ultimately I think he is good enough. 

I think we need a 6'3" boundary guy.

I cant blame him for not targeting obj, he had his worst year when he did and obj couldn't catch syphilis at a Victorian brothel. Obj is only good when we dont target him.

[hornbybrown]

13 minutes ago, Kiwibrown said:

Without drops he completes 87% of his passes today. Ultimately I think he is good enough. 

I think we need a 6'3" boundary guy.

I cant blame him for not targeting obj, he had his worst year when he did and obj couldn't catch syphilis at a Victorian brothel. Obj is only good when we dont target him.

I’m not just talking OBJ, Others are getting very open, but he throws to the person he expects to be open. Hell he sometimes throws over the head of a wide open person to someone in two man coverage 

[Kiwibrown]

1 minute ago, hornbybrown said:

I’m not just talking OBJ, Others are getting very open, but he throws to the person he expects to be open. Hell he sometimes throws over the head of a wide open person to someone in two man coverage 

I'm not saying that isn't a problem, I just thinking we would be swapping the problems we do know for the ones we dont know. For every mahomes there are 10 kizers. There isnt anyone in the draft. 

I doubt Roger's or wilson come here. 

I think we give Baker more time with this coaching group.

Keep the oline and backs in tact, get new wr. See whatw e have in dpj.

[mtmmike]

3 hours ago, Kiwibrown said:

I'm not saying that isn't a problem, I just thinking we would be swapping the problems we do know for the ones we dont know. For every mahomes there are 10 kizers. There isnt anyone in the draft. 

I doubt Roger's or wilson come here. 

I think we give Baker more time with this coaching group.

Keep the oline and backs in tact, get new wr. See whatw e have in dpj.

We really just need to cut them

All

Landry fumbled,Chubb is injured

Conklin is injured Ward is injuredwe can just draft there replacement and be in the Super bowl next year.

 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

5 hours ago, BrownsDog23 said:

🤔

You’re conflating some of us acknowledging that a player is failing with rooting for it to happen.

We all want OBJ to succeed here.  No one was rooting against him.  Some of us have just managed to identify early that it’s not happening after a mere 3 years.

And if you think @DawgX is worried about being right, you clearly haven’t been here long.  He’s perfectly fine with being wrong on tons of things.  All the time.  For years.  Decades. The amount of dumb statements he’s made is honest to god staggering.

But this ain’t one of them.

[BrownsDog23]

9 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

You’re conflating some of us acknowledging that a player is failing with rooting for it to happen.

We all want OBJ to succeed here.  No one was rooting against him.  Some of us have just managed to identify early that it’s not happening after a mere 3 years.

And if you think @DawgX is worried about being right, you clearly haven’t been here long.  He’s perfectly fine with being wrong on tons of things.  All the time.  For years.  Decades. The amount of dumb statements he’s made is honest to god staggering.

But this ain’t one of them.

I don’t think it’s that people don’t want OBJ to succeed it’s more that when things go wrong people desperately want it to be someone else’s fault other than the QB. 
 

Prime example 

OBJ is wide open and Baker throws this ball late, high, and behind him. Yet everyone’s reaction to this play was OBJ is soft, terrible, washed, etc…

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

3 minutes ago, BrownsDog23 said:

I don’t think it’s that people don’t want OBJ to succeed it’s more that when things go wrong people desperately want it to be someone else’s fault other than the QB. 
 

Prime example 

OBJ is wide open and Baker throws this ball late, high, and behind him. Yet everyone’s reaction to this play was OBJ is soft, terrible, washed, etc…

I mean, we can agree to disagree, but he threw him a ball that was catchable and he didn’t catch it.

Nor only did he not catch it, he tried to one hand it for no reason and apparently made a business decision to not even try because he sure looked like he wanted nothing to do with those safeties.

I think everyone acknowledges Baker can improve ball placement at times, misses throws, reads, etc.  Literally every QB does.
 

At some point the playmakers do actually have to make some plays.  If it’s just catching the perfectly timed passes that hit you square in the numbers, anyone can do that.  But he’s whiffed on multiple of those too this year so who knows?  
 

 

[BrownsDog23]

33 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I mean, we can agree to disagree, but he threw him a ball that was catchable and he didn’t catch it.

Nor only did he not catch it, he tried to one hand it for no reason and apparently made a business decision to not even try because he sure looked like he wanted nothing to do with those safeties.

I think everyone acknowledges Baker can improve ball placement at times, misses throws, reads, etc.  Literally every QB does.
 

At some point the playmakers do actually have to make some plays.  If it’s just catching the perfectly timed passes that hit you square in the numbers, anyone can do that.  But he’s whiffed on multiple of those too this year so who knows?  
 

 

This is proves my point, could OBJ have adjusted to an off target pass, extended two arms and hung into the ball while being smashed by the safety …. maybe.The picture shows a clear window to throw into, Baker double hitches, throws late and places the ball high and behind. 
 

But I guess if there’s any conceivable way that the WR could have caught, all blame falls on him

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

1 minute ago, BrownsDog23 said:

This is proves my point, could OBJ have adjusted to an off target pass, extended two arms and hung into the ball while being smashed by the safety …. maybe.

Isn’t that precisely what he’s paid an absurd amount of money to do?  

1 minute ago, BrownsDog23 said:

 

The picture shows a clear window to throw into, Baker double hitches, throws late and places the ball high and behind. 

 

Yes. And perhaps Baker was throwing behind him to protect him a bit as opposed to leading him directly into a safety.

Or maybe Baker doesn’t trust him to compete for a contested catch?

1 minute ago, BrownsDog23 said:

But I guess if there’s any conceivable way that the WR could have caught, all blame falls on him

No, they get blame when they don’t make an actual attempt to catch a pass that is reasonably catchable. This arse tried to pluck the ball out of the air with one hand for no particular reason (didn’t even lift his left arm up) and immediately looked at the safety and dropped it.

 

[BrownsDog23]

21 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Isn’t that precisely what he’s paid an absurd amount of money to do?  

Yes. And perhaps Baker was throwing behind him to protect him a bit as opposed to leading him directly into a safety.

Or maybe Baker doesn’t trust him to compete for a contested catch?

No, they get blame when they don’t make an actual attempt to catch a pass that is reasonably catchable. This arse tried to pluck the ball out of the air with one hand for no particular reason (didn’t even lift his left arm up) and immediately looked at the safety and dropped it.

 

Again zero accountability for the QB who also get paid a lot of money to routine reads and throws.

The absolutely was put in a position to protect the WR, it was literally the opposite.

Again it was a wide open window and if the ball comes out on time it’s not a contested catch. 
 

It was a bad play by the Baker, it happens but you and others are so eager to dog pile on OBJ that you refuse to acknowledge it

[mtmmike]

23 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Isn’t that precisely what he’s paid an absurd amount of money to do?  

Yes. And perhaps Baker was throwing behind him to protect him a bit as opposed to leading him directly into a safety.

Or maybe Baker doesn’t trust him to compete for a contested catch?

No, they get blame when they don’t make an actual attempt to catch a pass that is reasonably catchable. This arse tried to pluck the ball out of the air with one hand for no particular reason (didn’t even lift his left arm up) and immediately looked at the safety and dropped it.

 

Your in good voice want me to change my name so people can think that your me.

That said good afternoon 

Point 1 how many 1000 yard receiver did he draft for the chiefs 

2nd point how many 1000 yard receivers

Did Tampa draft. 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

3 minutes ago, BrownsDog23 said:

Again zero accountability for the QB who also get paid a lot of money to routine reads and throws.

The absolutely was put in a position to protect the WR, it was literally the opposite.

Again it was a wide open window and if the ball comes out on time it’s not a contested catch. 
 

It was a bad play by the Baker, it happens but you and others are so eager to dog pile on OBJ that you refuse to acknowledge it

I literally just said in the other thread and have acknowledged at pretty much every point the throw was high and behind him.  What more should I be doing here?

Baker not throwing a perfect pass doesn’t absolve OBJ of his poor effort here. 

[Empire Lies]

2 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I mean, we can agree to disagree, but he threw him a ball that was catchable and he didn’t catch it.

Nor only did he not catch it, he tried to one hand it for no reason and apparently made a business decision to not even try

2 hours ago, BrownsDog23 said:

I don’t think it’s that people don’t want OBJ to succeed it’s more that when things go wrong people desperately want it to be someone else’s fault other than the QB. 

Prime example 

OBJ is wide open and Baker throws this ball late, high, and behind him. Yet everyone’s reaction to this play was OBJ is soft, terrible, washed, etc…

 

All things considered Baker did enough to give the Browns a chance to win the game, but there's reality and false perception when it comes to Baker's play versus OBJ or anyone else.

WRs had too many drops. OLine played poorly, but for goodness sake, each week just look at it the All22 endzone and sideline views. Look how high and behind and late that ball is from Baker's double hitch.

Gameday impression/tv copy leads to false assumptions in both the positive AND negative direction for numerous plays and player performance.

All things considered Baker did enough to give the Browns a chance to win the game, but there's reality and false perception when it comes to Baker's play versus OBJ or anyone else.

The truth is in the ALL22. The eye in the sky doesn't lie.

Disagreement on this board/forum is fueled by the fact that people literally are not seeing the same things when considering the TV copy/announcer frames of plays VS the All22 review to better understand the various factors effecting positive or negative play outcomes.

It's literally a completely different picture of things that people have in their mind.

 

 

Honestly, on this forum there's the biggest difference of opinion between people that watch the ALL22 review of the game a few times (hardly anyone on here) that have the benefit of comparing how that lens on the game relates to the first impression of game outcomes via the tv copy.

For most fans, there's the reactionary opinion formed live on the tv copy and people then are unwilling to adjust their opinion either way based on the evidence the all22 provides.

Often one thinks the QB is to blame on a tv copy but the all22 shows a more complex picture and/or the opposite.

Same is true for WR issues.

So much stood out from the All22 this week as it does every week. A lot of Baker's misses this week were due to him anticipating pressures that didn't manifest and his need to hitch extra times or pat the ball more to get more on the throws due to shoulder injury body mechanics. 

There's so many open plays. Mutliple errors by oline, wr route, baker missed throw/read. 

Edited November 1, 2021 by Empire Lies