2021 GDT Week #12 Steelers Vs. Bengals

[warfelg]

So many (and I mean many) of the Steelers beat writers are continuing to push the same narrative on a few things that tends to really tick me off.

 

I can't remember the writer, but I saw one person putting the blame of the mess at LT as Tomlin's fault.  They put the miss of tallent at ILB as Tomlin's fault.  Like, those are just bad players.  Okorafor is just not good.  Dan Moore Jr just isn't good.  Devin Bush just isn't good.  Joe Schoebert just isn't good.  Robert Spillane just isn't good.  Like, there becomes a certain point where I just don't know what you want from a coach.  Like who else is there to put at LT?  Banner?  Haeg?  Sure you want those guys out there?  How about waiting until long after FA to worry about the DDC situation?  

Like, that really frustrated me right now that every article out there is pointing to things like that as a Tomlin problem but you can't find one article today talking about the misses the Colbert has had recently.  Hell, even his old value find FA's isn't really happening.  Alualu is about the only one lately he's done that with.

I mean, just thinking about people giving a pass to Colbert because of "draft success" peeves me.  Just think of this as guys on rookie contracts:

2018 - Terrell Edmunds (5th year option not picked up), James Washington (can't get on the field), Mason Rudolph (sucks), Chukwuma Okorafor (sucks), Marcus Allen (OK ST player), Jaylen Samuels (sucks), Joshua Frazier (good)

2019 - Devin Bush (won't be around long), Diontae Johnson (good), Justin Layne (sucks), Benny Snell (sucks), Zach Gentry (ok), Sutton Smith (gone), Isaiah Buggs (sucks), Ulysees Gilbert III (gone), Derwin Grey (gone)

2020 - Chase Claypool (average at best), Alex Highsmith (good), Anthony McFarland (sucks), Kevin Dotson (average at best), Antoine Brooks (sucks), Carlos Davis (sucks)

So out of three years you got 3 good to average players.  Heck even if you want to go back a few more drafts; 2017 was "good" but Conner is already gone, Juju likely won't be back, 4/5/6/7th round picks are all gone already, meaning TJ saved that class from looking like the next three; 2016 has Artie Burns, Sean Davis, Javon Hargrave, Hawkins, Feeney, Ayers, Matakevich, and we couldn't afford to keep the one good guy out of that draft; 2015 had Dupree, Golson, Coats, Grant, James, Walton, Chichillo, Holliman meaning one guy out of that got a worthwhile second contract.

 

So 2015-2020 and what we have to show for it in terms of long term players for us:

TJ Watt, Diontae Johnson, Chase Claypool, Alex Highsmith.

I thought this would be interesting, so over the same block of time here's what Cleveland and Cincinnati have come away with:

Cincinnati - Tyler Boyd, Joe Mixon, Sam Hubbard, Malik Jefferson, Jessie Bates, Jonah Williams, Germaine Pratt, Joe Burrow, Tee Higgins

Cleveland - Myles Garrett, Baker Mayfield (?), Denzel Ward, Austin Corbett, Nick Chubb, Jedrick Willis

And those are all that I can think of off the top of my head as guys that look like they should/could keep out of 5 years of drafting.

So if you are calling for a coaching change, but this same crappy picks keep happening then what's going to happen if the talent stays the same?  What's this magical formula out there to get this suddenly turned around without a major talent turnaround? 

I actually kinda post this thought:

Has the way the NFL evolved from contracts, draft movement, and players you need passed Colbert by?

[MOSteelers56]

I think it's going to be funny when they insert Banner and the run game magically improves. Moore has tasted action, he needs to take a step back and learn. He can't do that if he's constantly battling. Chuks to LT, Banner at RT, get Dotson back, that'll improve our run game. I don't think it'll matter much, but I think it'll get a little easier for the backs. 

[warfelg]

16 minutes ago, MOSteelers56 said:

I think it's going to be funny when they insert Banner and the run game magically improves. Moore has tasted action, he needs to take a step back and learn. He can't do that if he's constantly battling. Chuks to LT, Banner at RT, get Dotson back, that'll improve our run game. I don't think it'll matter much, but I think it'll get a little easier for the backs. 

Chucks was bad at LT too.  I think we have the worst LT situation in the NFL.

[MOSteelers56]

43 minutes ago, warfelg said:

Chucks was bad at LT too.  I think we have the worst LT situation in the NFL.

I won't argue with you there, but Chuks can't be worse than Moore. Also, Chuks never really got a fair shot at LT. He's also been one of the lone semi bright spots on the line. 

[warfelg]

1 minute ago, MOSteelers56 said:

I won't argue with you there, but Chuks can't be worse than Moore. Also, Chuks never really got a fair shot at LT. He's also been one of the lone semi bright spots on the line. 

Only thing I agree with there is can’t be worse because Moore has been rated the worse. 
 

We heard all pre-draft about how deep OL was and we got the worst C and the worst LT because we’ve been so forced to draft for need at positions we shouldn’t because we whiffed at mid round picks for too long. 

[Dcash4]

55 minutes ago, warfelg said:

Cincinnati - Tyler Boyd, Joe Mixon, Sam Hubbard, Malik Jefferson, Jessie Bates, Jonah Williams, Germaine Pratt, Joe Burrow, Tee Higgins

Cleveland - Myles Garrett, Baker Mayfield (?), Denzel Ward, Austin Corbett, Nick Chubb, Jedrick Willis

Yeah…no.

Names 3 first overall picks, 3 top 11 picks, a guy so good his team drafted him 33rd overall and traded him for a 5th, a guy so good he is on his 5th team and hasn’t played at all in 2021 and starts screaming about Colbert…no, just no. 

There are things to bang on Colbert about…none of this is it. 

The Steelers got strapped because the pandemic cut $40M off the cap and had players they planned on having all of a sudden become unavailable after the planning periods. It’s really not hard to understand why we have so many problems this year. 

This is all vacuum talk. 

1 hour ago, warfelg said:

How about waiting until long after FA to worry about the DDC situation?

Like this stuff man…they thought they were getting DDC back and more healthy….they didn’t. He decided to get surgery that ended his ability to help us and destroyed a plan for having him. Same sort of thing happened with Banner - a guy they liked, liked his trajectory following other 3rd tackle turn solid starters for his team, and thought he was healthy. He wasn’t. Same with Tuitt. Why no DL depth? Because we are missing out 2nd, 3rd, and 5th best DL for injuries and other. 

Devin Bush had been terrible and he and Schobert are an awful pairing — specifically behind a light/depleted line. Know who he fits better next to? Vince Williams…the guy who retired in day 1 of training camp after resigning a month earlier. 

I just don’t get what some of you guys are confused about what lead to this….they had a plan, that plan got canned after they were able to make a second plan. This season is a bunch of s*** happens with a covid crushing cap. 

This is the proper way to look at this year: 🤷‍♂️

[warfelg]

5 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

Yeah…no.

Names 3 first overall picks, 3 top 11 picks, a guy so good his team drafted him 33rd overall and traded him for a 5th, a guy so good he is on his 5th team and hasn’t played at all in 2021 and starts screaming about Colbert…no, just no. 

There are things to bang on Colbert about…none of this is it. 

The Steelers got strapped because the pandemic cut $40M off the cap and had players they planned on having all of a sudden become unavailable after the planning periods. It’s really not hard to understand why we have so many problems this year. 

This is all vacuum talk. 

Like this stuff man…they thought they were getting DDC back and more healthy….they didn’t. He decided to get surgery that ended his ability to help us and destroyed a plan for having him. Same sort of thing happened with Banner - a guy they liked, liked his trajectory following other 3rd tackle turn solid starters for his team, and thought he was healthy. He wasn’t. Same with Tuitt. Why no DL depth? Because we are missing out 2nd, 3rd, and 5th best DL for injuries and other. 

Devin Bush had been terrible and he and Schobert are an awful pairing — specifically behind a light/depleted line. Know who he fits better next to? Vince Williams…the guy who retired in day 1 of training camp after resigning a month earlier. 

I just don’t get what some of you guys are confused about what lead to this….they had a plan, that plan got canned after they were able to make a second plan. This season is a bunch of s*** happens with a covid crushing cap. 

This is the proper way to look at this year: 🤷‍♂️

Sorry but this is all becoming BS excuses fast to me.

 

Every team dealt with the cap issues.  All teams deal with injuries.  

 

Bunch of damn excuses.

[Dcash4]

3 minutes ago, warfelg said:

Sorry but this is all becoming BS excuses fast to me.

 

Every team dealt with the cap issues.  All teams deal with injuries.  

 

Bunch of damn excuses.

Excuses that don’t make sense? It feels like you think teams just lose 3 of their top 5 DL and keep on rolling. You’re delusional if you think that. 

You can claim excuses all you want. It’s reality. We got past the draft and free agency when all those roster issues happened….you can’t roll back a clock. 

[warfelg]

Like let me put this out there:

 

If KC is going to get the benefit of the doubt for injuries, guys retiring, the cap causing player problems....why aren't you giving Tomlin the benefit of the doubt when he's the one having to deal with the backups and emergency plans not being good enough?  

Because in all these "failed years" there's always injuries or things that KC couldn't have anticipated happening that give him an excuse, but for Tomlin it's always "not living up to expectations".  

And it's not even the point of championing Tomlin.  To me at this point is place the blame on all parties that played part of this.  Remain consistent.  Yet there's such a huge freaking lack of that when it comes to the coach.  

If Tomlin goes, so should Colbert.  

[warfelg]

13 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

Excuses that don’t make sense? It feels like you think teams just lose 3 of their top 5 DL and keep on rolling. You’re delusional if you think that. 

You can claim excuses all you want. It’s reality. We got past the draft and free agency when all those roster issues happened….you can’t roll back a clock. 

That's not what I'm saying.  I'm saying it's excuses to say injuries and 2 retirements are why Colbert shouldn't lose his job.  I'm saying he should because the players that backup those guys shouldn't even be on a roster. 

Also the DDC situation was known going into the offseason and they cut Williams before the start of FA.  Plenty of time to have a plan yet they....didn't.

[Dcash4]

36 minutes ago, warfelg said:

Also the DDC situation was known going into the offseason and they cut Williams before the start of FA.  Plenty of time to have a plan yet they....didn't.

…they didn’t know DDC was gonna elect surgery, which is why he was at OTA’s and the a surprise cut. That’s not “plenty of time”. 

Williams was a pure money move and resigned only to surprisingly retire day 1 of training camp. That’s also not “plenty of time”. 

39 minutes ago, warfelg said:

 I'm saying he should because the players that backup those guys shouldn't even be on a roster. 

I have no clue what your expectations are of depth in the NFL. No teams rolling 5-6 starters deep. Ever team has guys that “shouldn’t be on a roster” when they are thrust into action. 

[warfelg]

2 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

…they didn’t know DDC was gonna elect surgery, which is why he was at OTA’s and the a surprise cut. That’s not “plenty of time”. 

Williams was a pure money move and resigned only to surprisingly retire day 1 of training camp. That’s also not “plenty of time”. 

I have no clue what your expectations are of depth in the NFL. No teams rolling 5-6 starters deep. Ever team has guys that “shouldn’t be on a roster” when they are thrust into action. 

So you knew DDC had something wrong but you planned nothing.  That's not good roster management.

Hell even if you want to say that about Williams, they drafted someone to replace him and still felt it was a need to bring in someone and despite that someone sucking the drafted guy still isn't good enough to get a hat.

 

My expectation of depth is you shouldn't need a coach to admit they have to completely change their play calling because of a few injuries.  My expectation of depth is being able to comfortably put 3 CB's on the field in the first place.  My expectation of depth would be to comfortably rotate out a DL for a series in the first place.  We couldn't even do that before.  While you were all excited about the roster, some of us (me and @43M most vocally) stated the roster had major concerns.

 

So I'll ask this again:

If KC is going to get the benefit of the doubt for injuries, guys retiring, the cap causing player problems....why aren't you giving Tomlin the benefit of the doubt when he's the one having to deal with the backups and emergency plans not being good enough?  

[43M]

Id be perfectly fine from moving on from both Colbert and Tomlin.   I remember 5 or 6 years ago saying Colbert wasnt cutting it and getting absolutely thrashed by Steelers fans, and he had 2 or 3 pretty good drafts and everyone acted like it wasnt an issue anymore.

I get all GMs have failures, and that fans often have unrealistic expectations, but at a certain point, you have to admit when something isnt working out and its likely time for a change.

That logic can be applied to our GM, head coach and QB right now.

I honestly feel like its time to start over from damn near scratch.   I dont think we will....but as Ive stated many times...this team is far more than a few tweaks away.

[CKSteeler]

2 hours ago, warfelg said:

Like, that really frustrated me right now that every article out there is pointing to things like that as a Tomlin problem

So what exactly is a Mike Tomlin problem with this team? 

[CKSteeler]

And Devin Bush was so clearly a Tomlin pick that I don't know what else to say to anyone denying it. 

Regardless, the fact that he hasn't been benched not just for sucking, but for showing a complete lack of effort is a complete indictment of Mike Tomlin.