WEEK 11: 5-5 Denver Broncos vs. 6-4 LA Chargers - Sunday 2:05 MST/4:05 EST

[jsthomp2007]

17 minutes ago, BroncoBruin said:

Another year (or two??) of Teddy would be demoralizing. As 67 said, they better be in the Rodgers/Wilson sweepstakes if they’re serious about competing. And they will be if that’s a possibility. 

I don't see how they are not, if you just signed two of your top wideouts to relatively lucrative deals, and you still have Jeudy on his rookie contract.  I would suspect some money will be thrown at a TE. 

[BroncoBruin]

19 minutes ago, jsthomp2007 said:

I don't see how they are not, if you just signed two of your top wideouts to relatively lucrative deals, and you still have Jeudy on his rookie contract.  I would suspect some money will be thrown at a TE. 

Yeah the last time they paid 2 WRs they never figured out QB and it ended up being a bad allocation of resources. Hopefully they don’t make the same mistake twice. If you’re going to invest that much at WR, get a QB who can take advantage of it. Our top three WRs combined for 68 yards yesterday…

[broncos67]

1 hour ago, lomaxgrUK said:

Imagine asking this question during the Browns game, when we witnessed possibly the worst ILB showing in the history of this Franchise - what a crazy game Football is ...

Honestly, @jsthomp2007 - I think this is the best ILB pairing we've had in a very, very long time with the way they compliment each other.

Now, this poses the question - what do we do in the offseason?

For me, it's a no-brainer. You absolutely have to extend Kenny Young if you can, and I'd do it now. Nobody has sung Josey Jewell's praises more than me around here. I think he's a really good player with incredible instincts. But he just can't do what Young can from an athletically standpoint. For Young to be doing what he's doing this soon after coming to us is unreal. 

Don't get me wrong, a combination of Jewell and Browning is also something I'd love to see. But Young surely has to be the priority, given his impact.

Alexander Johnson would have to take a really small deal to stick around in my opinion. The flexibility and dynamism Young and Browning are showing does make you realise just how predictable we are with Johnson out there (especially without Jewell).

Agree with this wholeheartedly. Extend Young now. He's quite good and going to be worth the contract they can probably lock him in at. There's not a lot of ILB talent in this draft. Between Young, Jewell, Browning, Strnad....that's fairly solid based on what I've seen.

[BroncoBruin]

Paton loves his UCLA linebackers. I think he did make that move with the future in mind.

[Broncofan]

The up & down season continues, and as they've done in the past - the Chargers show they can win any given week, and they can lose any given week.    Their vulnerability to the run, and their complete predictability in not going deep (a feature of the Lombardi O that was underappreciated, partly because Brees' decline in arm strength suited that scheme) really hurt the Chargers yesterday.

None of which takes away from the DEN performance on D, though.   The kids were fantastic - Sterns, Surtain, Browning all played a heckuva game.     It's kind of ironic that Kareem Jackson is leading the fan vote for the Pro Bowl, when it's clear he's losing a step in coverage.     Sterns & J-Simmons are going to be a fantastic tandem next year with health.    

As for the O - once they were up 14-0, it was just "stay away from mistakes" - which worked yesterday, but won't work many weeks.   0 first downs from the mid-2Q to the mid-4Q isn't going to get it done.   And for all of the hand-wringing about choosing TeddyB over Lock - Lock kinda showed exactly why Teddy won the competition.    Slow on his reads, got lucky with the strip sack on 3rd down that ricoche'd forward for a drive sustaining 1st down that led to the 2nd TD, and then that unbelievable bad decision that led to the late 2Q TD.   

Again, I don't think it changes much - we're good enough to pull some improbable W's when we get leads, but once we're behind, we're toast.    I also see the clear components of a team that could indeed contend legitimately and in a sustained way - if we can find the QB.     While some fans will despair that we're stuck in purgatory this way, good enough to hang in each week, not good enough to go far in the playoffs, because our core is so young - I prefer to have the very real hope that we're going to look incredibly attractive to all 3 vet QB's who are looking to be traded next year (still Russell Wilson #1 with a bullet).    In other years, I'd be hoping for a better draft spot to get in position for QB Rd1 if they fell far enough (or we could move up) - but this offseason, the draft class isn't that great, and it's an unprecedented year of availability of difference-making QB's entering the trade market.    So really, games like this only help our case this offseason.  I also don't pretend we'll go far in the playoffs, or that we'll even get there, not with the schedule left, and the flaws we show when we don't get early big leads.     

The reality is we were never going to be bad enough to pick as early as we've had to in prior years.   On the flip side, it shows when we're leading we've got a chance - but we're dead in the water when we have to keep up.   The last 4 weeks (2-2) encapsulates our season to a T IMO.  I just hope our core guys stay healthy, and look for progress.   Anything else is gravy.

Edited November 29, 2021 by Broncofan

[AnAngryAmerican]

42 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

The up & down season continues, and as they've done in the past - the Chargers show they can win any given week, and they can lose any given week.    Their vulnerability to the run, and their complete predictability in not going deep (a feature of the Lombardi O that was underappreciated, partly because Brees' decline in arm strength suited that scheme) really hurt the Chargers yesterday.

None of which takes away from the DEN performance on D, though.   The kids were fantastic - Sterns, Surtain, Browning all played a heckuva game.     It's kind of ironic that Kareem Jackson is leading the fan vote for the Pro Bowl, when it's clear he's losing a step in coverage.     Sterns & J-Simmons are going to be a fantastic tandem next year with health.    

As for the O - once they were up 14-0, it was just "stay away from mistakes" - which worked yesterday, but won't work many weeks.   0 first downs from the mid-2Q to the mid-4Q isn't going to get it done.   And for all of the hand-wringing about choosing TeddyB over Lock - Lock kinda showed exactly why Teddy won the competition.    Slow on his read, got lucky with the strip sack on 3rd down that ricoche'd forward for a drive sustaining 1st down that led to the 2nd TD, and then that unbelievable bad decision that led to the late 2Q TD.   

Again, I don't think it changes much - we're good enough to pull some improbable W's when we get leads, but once we're behind, we're toast.    I also see the clear components of a team that could indeed contend legitmately and in a sustained way - if we can find the QB.     While some fans will despair that we're stuck in purgatory this way, good enough to hang in each week, not good enough to go far in the playoffs, because our core is so young - I prefer to have the very real hope that we're going to look incredibly attractive to all 3 vet QB's who are looking to be traded next year (still Russell Wilson #1 with a bullet).    In other years, I'd be hoping for a better draft spot to get in position for QB Rd1 if they fell far enough (or we could move up) - but this offseason, the draft class isn't that great, and it's an unprecedented year of availability of difference-making QB's entering the trade market.    So really, games like this only help our case this offseason.  I also don't pretend we'll go far in the playoffs, or that we'll even get there, not with the schedule left, and the flaws we show when we don't get early big leads.     

The reality is we were never going to be bad enough to pick as early as we've had to in prior years.   On the flip side, it shows when we're leading we've got a chance - but we're dead in the water when we have to keep up.   The last 4 weeks (2-2) encapsulates our season to a T IMO.  I just hope our core guys stay healthy, and look for progress.   Anything else is gravy.

I think the inconsistency we’ve shown all year has to be laid at the feet of the coaching staff. Yes, Teddy is a limiting factor and it’s a young roster that’s been injury bitten. But, again, there is no identity; the defense can be good enough to keep us in games and even go a long way towards helping us win. But without a difference-maker at QB and a staff that can’t consistently out-scheme and out-Coach the other sideline, we’ll be mired in the middle no matter how good of a core Paton can build (and he is off to a very good start).

I do worry if the staff is retained as-is, would give Rodgers/Wilson pause? Especially with Pittsburgh and New Orleans likely to be in the mix for QBs? You see Payton, Tomlin and their staffs and then you look over here at Vic and Shurmur, the comparison is not likely to be flattering. 

Edited November 29, 2021 by AnAngryAmerican

[jsthomp2007]

46 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

if we can find the QB

And find a better HC, OC, and DC by virtue of losing the HC

[Broncofan]

6 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

I think the inconsistency we’ve shown all year has to be laid at the feet of the coaching staff. Yes, Teddy is a limiting factor and it’s a young roster that’s been injury bitten. But, again, there is no identity; the defense can be good enough to keep us in games and even go a long way towards helping us win. But without a difference-maker at QB and a staff that can’t consistently out-scheme and out-Coach the other sideline, we’ll be mired in the middle no matter how good of a core Paton can build (and he is off to a very good start).

I do worry if the staff is retained as-is, would give Rodgers/Wilson pause? Especially with Pittsburgh and New Orleans likely to be in the mix for QBs? You see Payton, Tomlin and their staffs and then you look over here at Vic and Shurmur, the comparison is not likely to be flattering. 

I would be shocked to see the staff retained.   I also don't see us making the playoffs, or in the unlikely even we did, winning that 1st game - obv that could change things, but anything less, and I'd see Paton brings in his guys. 

Edited November 29, 2021 by Broncofan

[broncos67]

11 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

I think the inconsistency we’ve shown all year has to be laid at the feet of the coaching staff. Yes, Teddy is a limiting factor and it’s a young roster that’s been injury bitten. But, again, there is no identity; the defense can be good enough to keep us in games and even go a long way towards helping us win. But without a difference-maker at QB and a staff that can’t consistently out-scheme and out-Coach the other sideline, we’ll be mired in the middle no matter how good of a core Paton can build (and he is off to a very good start).

I do worry if the staff is retained as-is, would give Rodgers/Wilson pause? Especially with Pittsburgh and New Orleans likely to be in the mix for QBs? You see Payton, Tomlin and their staffs and then you look over here at Vic and Shurmur, the comparison is not likely to be flattering. 

I would not expect to see many on this staff retained. If we don't make the playoffs, no one will stick around. If we somehow DO make the playoffs, I suppose there's an outside chance that Fangio is kept, though I doubt it. Shurmur and McMahon are gone. If there's a chance of landing one of the big two QBs this offseason, Denver/Paton will do what's necessary to land them, IMO.

[jsthomp2007]

4 hours ago, BroncoBruin said:

Yeah the last time they paid 2 WRs they never figured out QB and it ended up being a bad allocation of resources. Hopefully they don’t make the same mistake twice. If you’re going to invest that much at WR, get a QB who can take advantage of it. Our top three WRs combined for 68 yards yesterday…

I don't understand why there are not more 50/50 jump balls to Sutton. Especially on 3 and 18, 3 and 20.  We had 3-18 yesterday and the Teddy dumped it off to Gordon in the flat.  Why not go long to Sutton?  Chance are 1) he catches and you get a first down, or 2) You get a pass interference call, and you get the automatic 1st down, or 3) You throw a pick, which if you are going to just dump it off to the RB in the flat, you had planned to punt the ball anyway...

[AnAngryAmerican]

I guess I don’t share the optimism as regards the coaching staff. If we win 3 more and get to 9 wins there is a chance we sneak in as the 7 seed. You can’t fire a staff when they make the playoffs absent a major scandal (or a roster like 2014 after which Elway fired everyone to bring in Kubes). 

[AKRNA]

42 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

I guess I don’t share the optimism as regards the coaching staff. If we win 3 more and get to 9 wins there is a chance we sneak in as the 7 seed. You can’t fire a staff when they make the playoffs absent a major scandal (or a roster like 2014 after which Elway fired everyone to bring in Kubes). 

I guess I kinda take issue with lumping all "the staff" in a group. We've got some great position coaches in there.  Munchak and Kuper have done a great job with the OL, Next man up has certainly applied there with all the injuries. On the other hand,Shula with the QB's is awful.. 

How 'bout Herring and Pagano? It's hard to imagine doing a better job with our LB's.  Kollar always seems to get more with less than any coach we've got. I'd love to see what he'd do with a 1st round talent.

One of my biggest beefs with Fangio is he seems to be loyal to a fault. No way should McMahon still be employed. Shurmur's a mess. Almost two years and he still hasn't established an offensive identity. 

Anyway, I'm just afraid we'll end up throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

[AnAngryAmerican]

15 minutes ago, AKRNA said:

I guess I kinda take issue with lumping all "the staff" in a group. We've got some great position coaches in there.  Munchak and Kuper have done a great job with the OL, Next man up has certainly applied there with all the injuries. On the other hand,Shula with the QB's is awful.. 

How 'bout Herring and Pagano? It's hard to imagine doing a better job with our LB's.  Kollar always seems to get more with less than any coach we've got. I'd love to see what he'd do with a 1st round talent.

One of my biggest beefs with Fangio is he seems to be loyal to a fault. No way should McMahon still be employed. Shurmur's a mess. Almost two years and he still hasn't established an offensive identity. 

Anyway, I'm just afraid we'll end up throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

You know those are good points.

But it does start up top; Vic and Scags didn’t get along and Elway let Vic make a change, with disastrous results. (None of that is to say Scags would have done better, but he was a better fit for Lock but I’ve seen nothing from Lock the last year-plus to convince me that he could be a franchise QB). The point is Vic owns that decision - Elway empowered his hand-picked coach against his (Elway’s) own instincts; Vic made his own bed vis-a-vis Shurmur and Shula on that decision. Same with McMahon.  

For the record, I have no issues with Donatel, Munchak, Kollar (who has been on every staff since Fox IIRC), Azzanni and others. Vic is a glorified DC masquerading as a HC and Shurmur, Shula and McMahon all need replaced. Paton needs to do the right thing or I’ll lose major faith in him. 

This is a huge offseason for Paton. He’s done well in many aspects but this winter/spring he needs to get a QB, a HC, an OC, a STC and quite likely a DC since Vic won’t take a “demotion” to DC. He also needs to have another good draft. GMs are judged on matching their coaches and QBs and on building a roster, so far Paton has gone 1/3, though he has a chance to fix the other 2 this winter/spring. 

[1234567]

12 hours ago, Scoundrel said:

Mac Jones will end up winning it as he leads the Pats to the playoffs. Unless he just outright wins rookie of the year. 

Yeah I forgot about him. He’s certainly starting to look the part. I suppose that’s one of the benefits of being drafted by a team with coaches who can actually develop quarterbacks.

[champ11]

8 hours ago, jsthomp2007 said:

I don't understand why there are not more 50/50 jump balls to Sutton. Especially on 3 and 18, 3 and 20.  We had 3-18 yesterday and the Teddy dumped it off to Gordon in the flat.  Why not go long to Sutton?  Chance are 1) he catches and you get a first down, or 2) You get a pass interference call, and you get the automatic 1st down, or 3) You throw a pick, which if you are going to just dump it off to the RB in the flat, you had planned to punt the ball anyway...

My opinion on Sutton is that he’s like 75-80% this season and contract is really an investment for the future. Could end up being an amazing, amazing deal if he gets back to his prior athleticism. But overall I haven’t been very impressed this year