El Ramster Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 20 hours ago, SkippyX said: Just FYI Wagner is a 6 time 1st team and 2 time 2nd team all-pro He is a HoF player beyond any doubt. The MLB is a tricky one as there’s a ish load that can get the Secon team. Even Alec Ogetree has a few second team all pros IIRC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkronsWitness Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 (edited) 34 minutes ago, El Ramster said: The MLB is a tricky one as there’s a ish load that can get the Secon team. Even Alec Ogetree has a few second team all pros IIRC Just to play devils advocate. Randy Gradishar was a 5x All Pro, 7x Pro Bowl Selection in only 9.5 years of playing. Was the captain of the 'Orange Crush' defense. He averaged 215 TKL per year for his career. Which is outrageous. To put that into perspective Bobby Wager has averaged 138 TKL per year for his 10 year career. Randy Gradishar never even made the HOF and was never even a finalist. That shows me, that how well you tackle as a MLB does not get weighted heavily at all in HOF voting. Edited March 10, 2022 by AkronsWitness 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Ramster Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, AkronsWitness said: Just to play devils advocate. Randy Gradishar was a 5x All Pro, 7x Pro Bowl Selection in only 9.5 years of playing. Was the captain of the 'Orange Crush' defense. He averaged 215 TKL per year for his career. Which is outrageous. To put that into perspective Bobby Wager has averaged 138 TKL per year for his 10 year career. Randy Gradishar never even made the HOF and was never even a finalist. That shows me, that how well you tackle as a MLB does not get weighted heavily at all in HOF voting. Agreed. Look at Zach Thomas! Then you have guys like Keith Brooking and others. The MLB play has been very weak for the last 5-10 years compared to before. Even the Safety play has fallen off dramatically.. With teams switching to more Nickle it’s only going to get worse. And while Wagner is a tremendous player he’s never flashed HOF talent for me in all my years watching Seattle. He’s never been a game changer or wrecker… Guys like Cleo, Earl and Kam made bigger impact.. Throw in Sherman as well. Bobby is without a doubt the weakest LOB player out of all of them. Probably the most solid/longevity but not the most impactful one. Edited March 10, 2022 by El Ramster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefenseWinsChampionships Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 (edited) √ He's born and raised in California. √ Los Angeles to be specific. ✓ And the Los Angeles Chargers are very weak on Defense right now. Bobby Wagner is going to the Los Angeles Chargers. Edited March 10, 2022 by DefenseWinsChampionships 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 4 hours ago, AkronsWitness said: Just to play devils advocate. Randy Gradishar was a 5x All Pro, 7x Pro Bowl Selection in only 9.5 years of playing. Was the captain of the 'Orange Crush' defense. He averaged 215 TKL per year for his career. Which is outrageous. To put that into perspective Bobby Wager has averaged 138 TKL per year for his 10 year career. Randy Gradishar never even made the HOF and was never even a finalist. That shows me, that how well you tackle as a MLB does not get weighted heavily at all in HOF voting. Who the hell is Randy Gradishar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippyX Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 First, all 3 guys (Gradishar, Thomas, and Wagner should be in the HoF) Second, Wagner never flashed is the weak sauce cold take of the day. None of this is about the clowns who wait until people die to vote them in the Hall of Fame. Its about the player's careers. Maybe all 3 guys get in on the veterans committee, but they are all worthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippyX Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 8 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: Who the hell is Randy Gradishar? His LB peak was probably as good as Tony Boselli's OT peak but he played longer, and longer at a high level, and had more team success. This was the '70s to early '80s when Pittsburgh, Miami, and Oakland got most of the AFC attention. You might know his teammates Lyle Alzado (later starred on the Raiders too) and Tom Jackson (of NFL Prime Time) An 80's version of his impact on Denver's D might be Karl Mecklenberg. Its not a perfect analogy because Mecklenberg was more of a 3-4 ILB / pass rusher. Gradishar was a better player AFAIK but Mecklenberg played a little longer. Karl was HoVG IMO. I'm not an expert on either guy and I watched Mecklenberg mostly when he as getting killed in 3 SBs or when Elway was beating the Browns or the 3 times a year they were on SNF or the 4pm national game. In Gradishar's one SB his QB went 4-15 with 4 picks and a 0 rating and the backup went 4-10 and his team lost 4 fumbles so they got demolished by Dallas. The Broncos offense had 156 total yards and 7 turnovers in that game. I think there were like 4 picks, 9 fumbles, 6 lost, and 3 or 4 missed FGs combined. It was not a pretty Super Bowl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaveOurSonics Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 8 hours ago, TheChancellor said: Very well put. How do you feel about Brooks after last season? Hard to truly evaluate considering he’s playing out of position for as long as Bobby’s around. He was a very effective tackler and navigating the run game. General liability in pass coverage. People say “oh man, Bobby coming off a 170 tackle season!”. Okay. Brooks just had 184. The gap is even wider if we only count solo tackles. Wagner had 3 TFL. Brooks had 10. Its not crazy to say Brooks in 2022 will be a better MLB than Bobby Wagner. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie man Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 I liked Brooks coming out. But the Browns need to make this happen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animaltested Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 1 hour ago, SaveOurSonics said: Hard to truly evaluate considering he’s playing out of position for as long as Bobby’s around. He was a very effective tackler and navigating the run game. General liability in pass coverage. People say “oh man, Bobby coming off a 170 tackle season!”. Okay. Brooks just had 184. The gap is even wider if we only count solo tackles. Wagner had 3 TFL. Brooks had 10. Its not crazy to say Brooks in 2022 will be a better MLB than Bobby Wagner. Yeah the 99% of people who didnt watch more than a few quarters of Seahawks football.. the middle of the field in passing was a huge liability. Id chalk most of that on KNJ's surrendering the underneath; but still; teams feasted on quick passes in the middle of the field; often times attacking Bobby directly. Writing was on the wall after the Brooks-Barton pairing worked really well covering the short middle in the last 2 games. That and saving 16 million. Dude can still play; and he will absolutely have a fantastic year in 2022 on a new team. Seattle might be looking at someone like Asamoah, Tindall, Walker, Clark or Muma with a day 2 pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaveOurSonics Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 11 minutes ago, animaltested said: Dude can still play; and he will absolutely have a fantastic year in 2022 on a new team. Sure, but I think a lot of Bobby's value is based off of the intangibles at this point. He's a glorified Denzel Perryman for his ability on the field at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NVRamsFan Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 Bobby Wagner for years has been the answer to question of which player from a division rival do you want on your team. Every year it's been Wagner for a very long time. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: Who the hell is Randy Gradishar? One of the best middle linebackers of the mid 70's to early 80's. It was essentially him, Jack Ham, Jack Lambert, Willie Lanier, Isiah Robertson, and...probably one or two others I'm forgetting that were real stars in that era for that position. He's probably more fondly remembered if the Broncos had had more success and/or he had a more outspoken nature. Edited March 10, 2022 by TecmoSuperJoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrantikRam Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 4 hours ago, DefenseWinsChampionships said: √ He's born and raised in California. √ Los Angeles to be specific. ✓ And the Los Angeles Chargers are very weak on Defense right now. Bobby Wagner is going to the Los Angeles Chargers. Right city, wrong team 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeezla Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 I think he'll wait a while before picking a team to sign with. I would guess he waits til after the draft, then picks a team that didn't take a MLB in top 2 rounds. Hopefully he signs with the Eagles later today though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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