Colts trade QB Carson Wentz + 2nd to Commanders for 2nd + two 3rds

[Matts4313]

16 minutes ago, TheRealMcCoy said:

 

This is all you need to know as to why Wentz cant stick around. Its clear he is a locker room cancer, even if he has all the talent in the world (he does). 

[Duluther]

I wish this thread would stop getting bumped. Every time I see this thread, I think it’s because Washington already traded Wentz.

[Slappy Mc]

3 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

This is all you need to know as to why Wentz cant stick around. Its clear he is a locker room cancer, even if he has all the talent in the world (he does). 

Also I think Irsay's stance on the vaccine status has to be considered as well. 

"Matt Ryan: The Falcons confirmed in August that they have a 100% vaccination rate. That includes the former NFL MVP."

It was clear that it was a knock against him that he was unvaccinated while on that roster. 

[Matts4313]

5 minutes ago, Slappy Mc said:

Also I think Irsay's stance on the vaccine status has to be considered as well. 

"Matt Ryan: The Falcons confirmed in August that they have a 100% vaccination rate. That includes the former NFL MVP."

It was clear that it was a knock against him that he was unvaccinated while on that roster. 

For sure. I think its part of the reason Cooper is gone from the Cowboys as well, he was basically our only unvaccinated player. Jerry made it clear when he said something to the effect of "I believe in each individuals choices when it comes to medical, except when it effects others. Then it becomes 'we' not 'I'".

 

The owners care about these things. Wentz didnt conform and got shipped. 

Edited March 29, 2022 by Matts4313

[Forge]

10 minutes ago, Slappy Mc said:

Irsay doesn't pull any punches. In comparison though, at this point in his career is Matt Ryan really "better" than Carson Wentz?

Even if they are the same tier of QBs (and I think that I would still rather have Matt Ryan at this very moment, though that could change as soon as this year given Ryan's age) if Ryan isn't an issue in the locker room, it's a win for Indy (and that's before considering him actually being good for the locker room) 

[TheKillerNacho]

1 hour ago, Slappy Mc said:

Irsay doesn't pull any punches. In comparison though, at this point in his career is Matt Ryan really "better" than Carson Wentz?

yes?

[e16bball]

5 hours ago, Forge said:

Even if they are the same tier of QBs (and I think that I would still rather have Matt Ryan at this very moment, though that could change as soon as this year given Ryan's age) if Ryan isn't an issue in the locker room, it's a win for Indy (and that's before considering him actually being good for the locker room) 

I’m no big fan of the Wentz deal, to be clear, but every single person who was actually in that locker room has basically fallen all over themselves to compliment Wentz the person/teammate when they’ve been asked (and sometimes when they haven’t). Irsay has consistently bagged on him, whenever given the chance, but everyone else has been borderline glowing in their praise. 

I was fully convinced that Wentz was a cancer/jackass when Indy made the call to pull the plug so quickly — but based on everything I’ve read and heard from the actual football people with the Colts, I’m now at least open to the possibility that this was an ownership decision that got foisted on the FO. 

Edited March 30, 2022 by e16bball

[Forge]

33 minutes ago, e16bball said:

I’m no big fan of the Wentz deal, to be clear, but every single person who was actually in that locker room has basically fallen all over themselves to compliment Wentz the person/teammate when they’ve been asked (and sometimes when they haven’t). Irsay has consistently bagged on him, whenever given the chance, but everyone else has been borderline glowing in their praise. 

I was fully convinced that Wentz was a cancer/jackass when Indy made the call to pull the plug so quickly — but based on everything I’ve read and heard from the actual football people with the Colts, I’m now at least open to the possibility that this was an ownership decision that got foisted on the FO. 

These issues also plagued him in Philly. This isn't new. We likely won't ever know the full story, and you almost always have to be careful with stories like this because none of us really knows what's going on and what the issues are.

I think people are putting too much emphasis on whether or not he's likeable. I don't think that is the problem, or at least not all of it (I'm sure some people don't like him).  He doesn't have to be a good person to show a lack of leadership or be a malcontent / crybaby type or things like that. He also could be very likeable but also very aloof and just not "one of the guys". I have no idea how the dynamics work with him. And just because he's likeable doesn't mean he's not self centered or selfish and narcissistic or have a fragile ego. All we really know is that there has been talk about him "behind closed doors" on two teams now and for one of them, those things were the major contributing factor to the team moving on (even before having a back up plan). 

I think its more likely that his issues are being blown out of proportion more so than non existent (though Darren Sproles apparently did want to fight him lol) , but again, if the team feels more comfortable with Ryan behind closed doors and feels better about what he's giving them off the field then its certainly a win for them even if the quality of play is the same. True or not, if the team feels that way then it's all that matters 

[ronjon1990]

17 hours ago, TheKillerNacho said:

yes?

Undoubtedly. 

[Art_Vandalay]

18 hours ago, TheKillerNacho said:

yes?

Yes. I truly believe Carson thinks he's still as good as his 2017 self, but it's everyone else's fault that it no longer appears that way. Matty's physical tools are diminishing but he's still got a high IQ and good locker room presence.

[Wyld Stallyns]

On 3/29/2022 at 2:31 PM, Slappy Mc said:

Also I think Irsay's stance on the vaccine status has to be considered as well. 

"Matt Ryan: The Falcons confirmed in August that they have a 100% vaccination rate. That includes the former NFL MVP."

It was clear that it was a knock against him that he was unvaccinated while on that roster. 

Quentin Nelson and Darius Leonard are also unvaccinated and leaders on this team. While it might be part of the problem, it’s secondary to his other leadership qualities that irked Irsay. 

[Slappy Mc]

13 minutes ago, Wyld Stallyns said:

Quentin Nelson and Darius Leonard are also unvaccinated and leaders on this team. While it might be part of the problem, it’s secondary to his other leadership qualities that irked Irsay. 

Clearly I don't know enough about it, but why wouldn't the players be the outspoken ones and not the owner? All I've heard since them moving him was players sad to see him go and wishing him the best. 

Coming from a fan's opinion where the owner makes emotional decisions constantly that undermine his staff (All Hail Dan Snyder), it sounds like this is 100% a Irsay decision and not a uniform "best route for the team" decision made by the football guys. 

I have almost no positive expectations for Carson Wentz in Washington, but I do wonder, from your stand point, do you agree that it is mostly Wentz's fault you guys missed the post season? Besides the really awful left handed throw in his own endzone, was he worth trading the resources to get him to turn around and ship him off after one year?

I expect a lot of these answers to be yes, mainly because he is gone and not on the Colts anymore. I know that lots of Eagles fans felt the same when he was traded to the Colts.

[Wyld Stallyns]

2 hours ago, Slappy Mc said:

Clearly I don't know enough about it, but why wouldn't the players be the outspoken ones and not the owner? All I've heard since them moving him was players sad to see him go and wishing him the best. 

Coming from a fan's opinion where the owner makes emotional decisions constantly that undermine his staff (All Hail Dan Snyder), it sounds like this is 100% a Irsay decision and not a uniform "best route for the team" decision made by the football guys. 

I have almost no positive expectations for Carson Wentz in Washington, but I do wonder, from your stand point, do you agree that it is mostly Wentz's fault you guys missed the post season? Besides the really awful left handed throw in his own endzone, was he worth trading the resources to get him to turn around and ship him off after one year?

I expect a lot of these answers to be yes, mainly because he is gone and not on the Colts anymore. I know that lots of Eagles fans felt the same when he was traded to the Colts.

The problem with Wentz was something that came up in Philly, that he didn’t take to coaching too well. He worked through some changes and then resorted back to his old bad habits, habits that developed between the last time Reich coached him in 2017 and their reunion in 2021.

Most players loved Wentz but from what I’ve heard some players didn’t have a solid connection. According to Zack Keefer and Stephen Holder’s podcast there is a prominent player in on defense (I think it might’ve been Kenny Moore but I can’t say for certain) who spoke unfavorably about Wentz on a couple of occasions last season and also when he spoke to Irsay after the season. Irsay did a lot of yelling at Ballard and Reich immediately after the Jags loss and then talked to numerous players afterwards and it was then that Irsay was done with Wentz. Reich apologized to Irsay for not meeting the expectations they had (minimum playoffs) and it was Ballard who had to be convinced to move on from Wentz, not Reich.

I would say that Wentz isn’t the sole reason we lost the Raiders and Jaguars games or missed the playoffs (5 of our 8 losses were games we had a halftime lead) but Reich had limited the playbook because he didn’t trust Wentz to make certain throws and Wentz was not making the reads well so a lot of plays that could’ve been made weren’t (dump off pass to a wide open Jonathan Taylor was missed for a pass to a double teamed receiver, Zach Pascal? I think) 

After the Cardinals game, I was certain we would make the playoffs and would have made many excuses to justify making the trade. By that time it was already clear we lost the first round pick and it was going to be a pick in the 20s and not #16.

I really didn’t think we would move on from him because I didn’t see an alternative at QB that kept us as a playoff contender until the Matt Ryan thing came about from the Watson decision.

[Slappy Mc]

44 minutes ago, Wyld Stallyns said:

The problem with Wentz was something that came up in Philly, that he didn’t take to coaching too well. He worked through some changes and then resorted back to his old bad habits, habits that developed between the last time Reich coached him in 2017 and their reunion in 2021.

Most players loved Wentz but from what I’ve heard some players didn’t have a solid connection. According to Zack Keefer and Stephen Holder’s podcast there is a prominent player in on defense (I think it might’ve been Kenny Moore but I can’t say for certain) who spoke unfavorably about Wentz on a couple of occasions last season and also when he spoke to Irsay after the season. Irsay did a lot of yelling at Ballard and Reich immediately after the Jags loss and then talked to numerous players afterwards and it was then that Irsay was done with Wentz. Reich apologized to Irsay for not meeting the expectations they had (minimum playoffs) and it was Ballard who had to be convinced to move on from Wentz, not Reich.

I would say that Wentz isn’t the sole reason we lost the Raiders and Jaguars games or missed the playoffs (5 of our 8 losses were games we had a halftime lead) but Reich had limited the playbook because he didn’t trust Wentz to make certain throws and Wentz was not making the reads well so a lot of plays that could’ve been made weren’t (dump off pass to a wide open Jonathan Taylor was missed for a pass to a double teamed receiver, Zach Pascal? I think) 

After the Cardinals game, I was certain we would make the playoffs and would have made many excuses to justify making the trade. By that time it was already clear we lost the first round pick and it was going to be a pick in the 20s and not #16.

I really didn’t think we would move on from him because I didn’t see an alternative at QB that kept us as a playoff contender until the Matt Ryan thing came about from the Watson decision.

I really appreciate your perspective and willingness to be objective about the situation. The biggest concern for me about what you said is that he doesn't respond to coaching well. If true, and repetitive, this is a death blow to his NFL career. The situation with a prominent defensive player speaking unfavorably about him is kind of a non-issue in my mind for NFL players. You aren't going to be able to make everyone happy. It is a little concerning that it appears he is an acquired taste and that people (like Forge said, Darren Sproles wanted to fight him) don't rally behind or have faith in him.

I think Washington drastically overpaid for a player that was most likely going to get released. It didn't sound like the staff was ready to give up on him, but sometimes interpersonal relationships and locker room perception can get you cancelled from a job. On a positive note, Matt Ryan in my opinion is still a good QB and can definitely be a solid bridge for you guys. I wish WFT didn't get super desperate about not having a date to take to homecoming so they asked the "ugly girl" to be in a committed relationship. Now I get to be perplexed with wanting him to succeed (because that means the team does well) and wanting him to bomb and get his PT cut (for draft pick ramifications).

Oh well. The story of being a fan of this team. Again, appreciate your response and good luck Sheriff @Wyld Stallyns.