Commanders trade for Carson Wentz - 2022 3rd/2023 3rd (or 2nd)/swap 2nd rounders 2022

[turtle28]

 

[MikeT14]

2 hours ago, turtle28 said:

Not sure about that. I really think the D this year will pick up where they left off last year bc we don’t have as many changes as we did from 2020 to 2021 like last off-season. Most of our issues the 1st 6 games on D last year can be chalked up to miscommunication in the back 7 & Collins playing S rather than accepting that he’d fit better in as a Buffalo nickel/WLB/Nickle LB in today’s pass first NFL.

Ah ever the optimist. Weren’t the colts a Top 10 defense? Will we match that?

[turtle28]

45 minutes ago, MikeT14 said:

Ah ever the optimist. Weren’t the colts a Top 10 defense? Will we match that?

Well the point is not that they weren’t overall a top 10 D, it’s that in those 4 games they Colts D gave up over 24 ppg & 2 times 31 pts. If the Colts D had played better in those games then Wentz would’ve led the Colts to a 11-6 record or better.
 

So, presumably if our D can hold teams below that as well, we could win double digit games too. 
 

The Colts w/ Wentz at QB were 9th in the NFL in ppg, 26.5 last year. Their D was also 9th & gave up 21.5 ppg. So that’s the range we need to be in on O & D.

Last year we scored 19.7 ppg. So, if we score 1 more TD a game & we gave up 2 less FGs/1 less TD a game we have a good shot at winning double digit games.

I think that’s definitely possible for both sides of the ball.

[Thaiphoon]

On 6/21/2022 at 3:17 PM, e16bball said:

I just commented on an article in The Athletic where 3 guys did an All-NFC East draft and put together rosters solely of players from within the division.  Like the first time I’ve ever actually taken the time to comment on an Athletic article in their app. 

But I had to, because they did this whole dumb draft and Wentz was the one starting QB that none of these dopes selected. Dak? Yeah, I’m with that. Hurts? I don’t agree, but I wouldn’t clown someone for thinking the kid may yet have it in him to take a big step forward as a passer. But Daniel Jones over Carson Wentz? That’s just silly, and honestly pretty embarrassing for a professional football writer. 

We all watched Wentz in 2020. It was awful and humiliating, and we laughed and laughed as WFT fans. But outside of that season, he’s basically consistently been at least an average starting QB. Including last season, when he put up very reasonable numbers at the helm of a pretty unremarkable passing attack. He’s had 4 seasons (out of 6) that were clearly better than Jones’s best year. And just in case you’re thinking you don’t want Wentz because he isn’t a great winner, the only QBs with 20 starts in the last 3 seasons to post a worse winning percentage than Daniel Jones are the reanimated corpses of Andy Dalton and Cam Newton. 

I guess I just don’t get where all the negativity is coming from. I feel like I’m actually pretty “down” on Wentz, but you’d think I’m Larry Michael in terms of homerism compared to the general consensus out there. 

Yup. I'm a wait and see with Wentz. I can see why he could be much better than his detractors think. I can also see where he could underwhelm and prove his supporters wrong. I guess that's why they play the games and we'll know what we have in him in about 6-7 weeks when Week 1 starts. 

I just can't see putting him behind Jones. That's just not smart football knowledge at all.

[turtle28]

Nick has a whole tweet thread of cut ups of good and bad plays. It’s clear Wentz has arm strength better than any QB we’ve had in a long time, maybe since the 80s but in this thread you will also see times like the one above where he needed to just “take the lay ups,” move the chains by checking it down to Jonathan Taylor for 5-15 yards, instead he locks in on the crossing route & throws into double coverage and it’s intercepted.

[offbyone]

3 hours ago, turtle28 said:

Nick has a whole tweet thread of cut ups of good and bad plays. It’s clear Wentz has arm strength better than any QB we’ve had in a long time, maybe since the 80s but in this thread you will also see times like the one above where he needed to just “take the lay ups,” move the chains by checking it down to Jonathan Taylor for 5-15 yards, instead he locks in on the crossing route & throws into double coverage and it’s intercepted.

What about Ramsey?  He had a gun.

[turtle28]

7 hours ago, offbyone said:

What about Ramsey?  He had a gun.

Yeah, probably similar I’d say. There was a play that Nick showed where Wentz was basically sacked but was able to launch it like 50 yards downfield for a completion on a rope. Even Ramsey couldn’t have done this. It was a throw that we’d only see a guy like Mahomes, Josh Allen, Rodgers, Herbert or Wentz and maybe a few other big armed athletic guys who’d be able to make it.
 

The first play in this sequence of plays Wentz has Aaron Darnold in his face. He can’t step into the throw bc of that yet, on a rope launches a completion 50 yards downfield to Michael Pittman.

Edited July 23, 2022 by turtle28

[offbyone]

4 hours ago, turtle28 said:

Yeah, probably similar I’d say. There was a play that Nick showed where Wentz was basically sacked but was able to launch it like 50 yards downfield for a completion on a rope. Even Ramsey couldn’t have done this. It was a throw that we’d only see a guy like Mahomes, Josh Allen, Rodgers, Herbert or Wentz and maybe a few other big armed athletic guys who’d be able to make it.
 

The first play in this sequence of plays Wentz has Aaron Darnold in his face. He can’t step into the throw bc of that yet, on a rope launches a completion 50 yards downfield to Michael Pittman.

I am pretty sure that was the play Spurrier called every down.  More WRs than olineman, blocking de-emphasized, good luck kid!  

As long as a QBs can make all the throws, the arm strength beyond that is meaningless.  Then you have the real issue of can he not just get the ball there, but can he put it in the right spot and do it with touch when appropriate.  

Wentz surely has a better arm than Heinicke.  It isn't even a discussion.  But so does just about every NFL qb.  And Wentz has always had the arm strength.  The question is can he make the right decisions and can he put touch on it when necessary.  That is what we will be watching for.

 

[turtle28]

1 hour ago, offbyone said:

I am pretty sure that was the play Spurrier called every down.  More WRs than olineman, blocking de-emphasized, good luck kid!  

As long as a QBs can make all the throws, the arm strength beyond that is meaningless.  Then you have the real issue of can he not just get the ball there, but can he put it in the right spot and do it with touch when appropriate.  

Wentz surely has a better arm than Heinicke.  It isn't even a discussion.  But so does just about every NFL qb.  And Wentz has always had the arm strength.  The question is can he make the right decisions and can he put touch on it when necessary.  That is what we will be watching for.

 

 

Same page. I’m hoping he’s learned from his past mistakes & Scotty Turner can coach that out of him, and if not, I hope Scott calls plays where Wentz is forced to make quick reads & decisions/quick hitters so he’ll make those plays instead of forcing it into double coverage downfield where it could be intercepted.

Definitely won’t know until we see it though.

[turtle28]

I’d be lying if I wasn’t frustrated with seeing Marcus Mariota play well last night in the 1st quarter for the Falcons. He was 6/10, 132 yds & a TD, he had a 137.5 rtg. 
 

It obviously doesn’t mean anything right now but Mariota looked more comfortable and confident than Wentz has in the Falcons offense. That’s probably bc he played in that offense when he played Tennessee but still the Falcons didn’t have to trade for Mariota & he’s only on a 2-year $18.75 mil contract.

[lavar703]

3 hours ago, turtle28 said:

I’d be lying if I wasn’t frustrated with seeing Marcus Mariota play well last night in the 1st quarter for the Falcons. He was 6/10, 132 yds & a TD, he had a 137.5 rtg. 
 

It obviously doesn’t mean anything right now but Mariota looked more comfortable and confident than Wentz has in the Falcons offense. That’s probably bc he played in that offense when he played Tennessee but still the Falcons didn’t have to trade for Mariota & he’s only on a 2-year $18.75 mil contract.

Isn't Mariota always hurt? I'd be more mad about Kenny Pickett playing so well. We had a chance to pick him twice and probably could've traded back up with our second rounder and the picks we got for trading down to get Dotson.

[Troublez]

I have been pleasantly surprised with Wentz' development. All of the post colts trade "intangible" knocks are non-existent here, and he seems well liked. Wentz' upside is tremendous, I am excited to watch him play this year once he gets dialed into Scott Ts system. 

[DCNative]

On 7/15/2022 at 8:58 PM, turtle28 said:

Well the point is not that they weren’t overall a top 10 D, it’s that in those 4 games they Colts D gave up over 24 ppg & 2 times 31 pts. If the Colts D had played better in those games then Wentz would’ve led the Colts to a 11-6 record or better.
 

So, presumably if our D can hold teams below that as well, we could win double digit games too. 
 

The Colts w/ Wentz at QB were 9th in the NFL in ppg, 26.5 last year. Their D was also 9th & gave up 21.5 ppg. So that’s the range we need to be in on O & D.

Last year we scored 19.7 ppg. So, if we score 1 more TD a game & we gave up 2 less FGs/1 less TD a game we have a good shot at winning double digit games.

I think that’s definitely possible for both sides of the ball.

Guess this will be your excuse to keep Wentz because so far our D looks terrible. The D will be giving up over 21 points a game. I wouldn't be surprised if it's over 28 with what they have shown so far. 

They can't get off the field on 3rd downs, haven't applied enough pressure on the QB, anf CB's stand at least 5 yards away from their opponent. These are just some of the problems they have. 

[Scott Land]

On 8/23/2022 at 10:59 AM, DCNative said:

Guess this will be your excuse to keep Wentz because so far our D looks terrible. The D will be giving up over 21 points a game. I wouldn't be surprised if it's over 28 with what they have shown so far. 

They can't get off the field on 3rd downs, haven't applied enough pressure on the QB, anf CB's stand at least 5 yards away from their opponent. These are just some of the problems they have. 

I would say based off of years previous, it's hard to imagine that we hold teams to under 21 a game. We also have a much easier schedule this year with not near as many good quarterbacks as last year, so keep that in mind. You can look at preseason however you want, but imo preseason really doesn't tell me much. There's been years we have guys making plays left and right in preseason and they are terrible during the season and vice versa. 

[DCNative]

2 hours ago, Scott Land said:

I would say based off of years previous, it's hard to imagine that we hold teams to under 21 a game. We also have a much easier schedule this year with not near as many good quarterbacks as last year, so keep that in mind. You can look at preseason however you want, but imo preseason really doesn't tell me much. There's been years we have guys making plays left and right in preseason and they are terrible during the season and vice versa. 

It's not hard for me to see they are playing basically the same way they were last year.