Commanders trade for Carson Wentz - 2022 3rd/2023 3rd (or 2nd)/swap 2nd rounders 2022

[turtle28]

On 3/30/2022 at 1:15 PM, Troublez said:

The thing that bugs me - and perhaps I am a day behind because I live in STL and I have to listen to Kevin Sheehan a day in arrears, is that Kevin doesn't think that Wentz's trade was soley related to Irsay. He mentioned Chris Ballard's comments - regarding the locker room and status versus merit. 

Chris Ballard is doing Irsay’s bidding for him. That’s how I see that. 

[RSkinGM]

11 hours ago, turtle28 said:

one game? I will never understand that. Never.
 

Yeah, we could’ve started the Case Keenum era earlier! That was a great era! 😂 

our guy’s gotta pick you up and carry you through Jacksonville,” Irsay said. "He has to do it. Not an option. Has to. No excuses, no explanations.”

Exactly what Ersay said . Your guy HAS to do it . On his BACK ! NO excuses NO explanations , no options ! He has to do it !

[turtle28]

10 hours ago, RSkinGM said:

our guy’s gotta pick you up and carry you through Jacksonville,” Irsay said. "He has to do it. Not an option. Has to. No excuses, no explanations.”

Exactly what Ersay said . Your guy HAS to do it . On his BACK ! NO excuses NO explanations , no options ! He has to do it !

Irsay is a nut job. He’s lucky to still be an owner give his issues with recreational drugs. 
 

From what I’ve seen of clips of that game, the Colts OL was awful & the Jags front 7 got after Wentz like crazy. They caused turnovers bc of it. 

[ripsean21]

1 hour ago, turtle28 said:

Irsay is a nut job. He’s lucky to still be an owner give his issues with recreational drugs. 
 

From what I’ve seen of clips of that game, the Colts OL was awful & the Jags front 7 got after Wentz like crazy. They caused turnovers bc of it. 

One player doesn’t lose a game. Didn’t Nelson miss that game also? Because he is a huge difference maker and I think it just shows how much one truely elite player on the OL can make a huge difference.

[offbyone]

4 hours ago, turtle28 said:

Irsay is a nut job. He’s lucky to still be an owner give his issues with recreational drugs. 
 

From what I’ve seen of clips of that game, the Colts OL was awful & the Jags front 7 got after Wentz like crazy. They caused turnovers bc of it. 

I agree.  Isray is a complete eccentric wild card nut job.  But the smoke on wentz isn't without a little fire at least because it spanned two teams.

Edited April 2, 2022 by offbyone

[turtle28]

13 hours ago, offbyone said:

I agree.  Isray is a complete eccentric wild card nut job.  But the smoke on wentz isn't without a little fire at least because it spanned two teams.

I agree about that. Wentz has a golden opportunity in DC. I hope he plays within himself, doesn’t force things when there not there and makes the lay ups which turn into home runs bc his playmaker takes the ball in space and makes a big play with it. He has a great opportunity here and I hope he takes advantage of it. He’s certainly not as bad as he was in 2020 when the Eagles offense fell apart around him or how he performed vs the jags last year. 

[Tyronnosaurus]

Serious question. What is with the Wentz hate? I know a few years back before the injury he was having an MVP season and looked like he was heading for yearly pro bowl play.

I know the injury killed him and he’s been down every since. I know stats aren’t the end all but aside from the fumbles last Lear he put up 3500 yards, 27 TDs and 7 INT. I know the final game of JAX sucks but what is it about him? Does he just pad stats in bad games and choke in any big game?

I would think for you guys this was a great move. He sucks, you cut him. But I think he has a good chance at being a top 15 QB if it all clicks in WSH.

[MKnight82]

3 minutes ago, Tyronnosaurus said:

Serious question. What is with the Wentz hate? I know a few years back before the injury he was having an MVP season and looked like he was heading for yearly pro bowl play.

I know the injury killed him and he’s been down every since. I know stats aren’t the end all but aside from the fumbles last Lear he put up 3500 yards, 27 TDs and 7 INT. I know the final game of JAX sucks but what is it about him? Does he just pad stats in bad games and choke in any big game?

I would think for you guys this was a great move. He sucks, you cut him. But I think he has a good chance at being a top 15 QB if it all clicks in WSH.

 

I thought it was a good trade. 

[lavar703]

16 minutes ago, MKnight82 said:

 

I thought it was a good trade. 

Ahh “good” would’ve been a fair trade. This was about as lopsided as it gets. 

[lavar703]

23 minutes ago, Tyronnosaurus said:

Serious question. What is with the Wentz hate? I know a few years back before the injury he was having an MVP season and looked like he was heading for yearly pro bowl play.

I know the injury killed him and he’s been down every since. I know stats aren’t the end all but aside from the fumbles last Lear he put up 3500 yards, 27 TDs and 7 INT. I know the final game of JAX sucks but what is it about him? Does he just pad stats in bad games and choke in any big game?

I would think for you guys this was a great move. He sucks, you cut him. But I think he has a good chance at being a top 15 QB if it all clicks in WSH.

I mean, the numbers look good but you can’t lay an egg like he did against Jacksonville. Also, they were basically begging teams to take him and here comes Rivera, paying list price at the thrift store. 

Edited April 18, 2022 by lavar703

[MKnight82]

2 minutes ago, lavar703 said:

Ahh “good” would’ve been a fair trade. This was about as lopsided as it gets. 

I agree.  Getting a quality starting QB for only a swap of 2nds, a 3rd and conditional future 3rd is pretty lopsided. 

[aceinthehouse]

I think the hate comes from many angles, with a little bit of jealousy to be honest.

There's the hate & logic of the trade.

The Hate

1) He was traded to the Washington Commanders ala/ Dan Snyder. Had he been traded to any of the 31 teams? The trade would have been considered a steal.

2) He only lasted 1 yr, after the Colts gave away the farm for him. A 1st Rd pick + more. So assumptions are & were being said that he's a malcontent & locker room problem, even though players have come out & refuted those claims.  

3) His last 2 games were not good. I believe the Colts could have locked up a playoff birth had they won 1 of the last 2 games. Football is a "what have you done for me lately" sport. Apparently, that's as far as the media's brains will take them. The last 2 games of last year.

4)Wentz did not take the Vaccine & apparently some players followed suit. It's mainly why Frank Reich backed off his support of Wentz & Irsay wanted him gone. Because Wentz wasn't a team player, even though the vaccine is a medical & personal choice. It also explains the hate coming from a angles as well.

 

The Logic

1) Wentz was traded for a 22' 3rd & a 23' 3rd, that can become a 2nd if he plays 70% of the snaps. When you compare what Wentz is capable of & what he was traded for at his age? Then go look what Russell Wilson was traded for, Desean Watson was traded for & other QB trades. Washington gave up very little compared to those teams & specially for what the Colts traded for him just the year before. The risk was certainly worth it.

2)Wentz has a contract with no penalty, if cut or traded after the 22 season. Most QBs with huge money allocations have some form of cap penalty if released or traded. Wentz has zero. Washington was able to absorb his contract for this yr.

3)Wentz is only 29 years old. If he remains relatively healthy, he could produce for another 6 or 7 more years, if not more. If Wentz is successful in Washington, he could easily see another contract in the future. Some of these other QB's that were traded might have 1-3 yrs remaining max such as Wilson, Matt Ryan & others. Point is, he's still in his prime. 

4)Wentz is the most talented QB that Washington has had since Kirk Cousins. If Wentz plays similar to his 2017 form, he will be well & beyond that. No rookie in the 1st round could have offered that & trading for a different QB likely would have cost the #11 pick & probably more. Wentz was obtained with the ability to find talent to help make him successful. If Washington Rivera & O-coord Scott Turner use him successfully? Washington will be playoff bound. Specially considering this is the best QB Rivera has had here.

Simply put, the risk Washington made was very minimal compared to Cleveland, Denver & others.

Sure, it could fail.

But it won't set them back 3 or 4 yrs if it does.

They still have their 23' 1st to draft a QB if necessary & could cut & trade Wentz for no penalty if it does fail.

The risk was worth it. Specially, in a weak NFC East Division.

[Slappy Mc]

2 hours ago, lavar703 said:

Ahh “good” would’ve been a fair trade. This was about as lopsided as it gets. 

I'm not a huge fan of the trade, but this line is pretty comical. This is no where near as bad as what the Colts gave up to get Wentz in the first place. In comparison to all-time worst trades, this also is no where near the mark.

I'll reserve final judgement for who won, when we go through the season and watch his performance/progression.

[ARTMONK HOF]

Just a guess but I think John Bates is going to be Carson Wentz’s new Zach Ertz. 

Edited April 19, 2022 by ARTMONK HOF

[daskins]

7 hours ago, aceinthehouse said:

I think the hate comes from many angles, with a little bit of jealousy to be honest.

There's the hate & logic of the trade.

The Hate

1) He was traded to the Washington Commanders ala/ Dan Snyder. Had he been traded to any of the 31 teams? The trade would have been considered a steal.

2) He only lasted 1 yr, after the Colts gave away the farm for him. A 1st Rd pick + more. So assumptions are & were being said that he's a malcontent & locker room problem, even though players have come out & refuted those claims.  

3) His last 2 games were not good. I believe the Colts could have locked up a playoff birth had they won 1 of the last 2 games. Football is a "what have you done for me lately" sport. Apparently, that's as far as the media's brains will take them. The last 2 games of last year.

4)Wentz did not take the Vaccine & apparently some players followed suit. It's mainly why Frank Reich backed off his support of Wentz & Irsay wanted him gone. Because Wentz wasn't a team player, even though the vaccine is a medical & personal choice. It also explains the hate coming from a angles as well.

 

The Logic

1) Wentz was traded for a 22' 3rd & a 23' 3rd, that can become a 2nd if he plays 70% of the snaps. When you compare what Wentz is capable of & what he was traded for at his age? Then go look what Russell Wilson was traded for, Desean Watson was traded for & other QB trades. Washington gave up very little compared to those teams & specially for what the Colts traded for him just the year before. The risk was certainly worth it.

2)Wentz has a contract with no penalty, if cut or traded after the 22 season. Most QBs with huge money allocations have some form of cap penalty if released or traded. Wentz has zero. Washington was able to absorb his contract for this yr.

3)Wentz is only 29 years old. If he remains relatively healthy, he could produce for another 6 or 7 more years, if not more. If Wentz is successful in Washington, he could easily see another contract in the future. Some of these other QB's that were traded might have 1-3 yrs remaining max such as Wilson, Matt Ryan & others. Point is, he's still in his prime. 

4)Wentz is the most talented QB that Washington has had since Kirk Cousins. If Wentz plays similar to his 2017 form, he will be well & beyond that. No rookie in the 1st round could have offered that & trading for a different QB likely would have cost the #11 pick & probably more. Wentz was obtained with the ability to find talent to help make him successful. If Washington Rivera & O-coord Scott Turner use him successfully? Washington will be playoff bound. Specially considering this is the best QB Rivera has had here.

Simply put, the risk Washington made was very minimal compared to Cleveland, Denver & others.

Sure, it could fail.

But it won't set them back 3 or 4 yrs if it does.

They still have their 23' 1st to draft a QB if necessary & could cut & trade Wentz for no penalty if it does fail.

The risk was worth it. Specially, in a weak NFC East Division.

These are all solid points.  My biggest issue will be hamstrung by him not being able to handle someone in waiting.  Unless he turns it around and has matures a bit, I am worried that we wont take anyone to avoid ruffling feathers.  If a Corall or Howell is sitting there at our 2nd round pick, do we pass?  I hope not...