thrILL! Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 2 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said: Hot Take Alert: Wonder Woman was a poor man's Captain America: The First Avenger. Better lead performance, worse everything else. Agree with everything but lead performance. Chris Evans was easily better than Gal Gadot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 7 hours ago, thrILL! said: Agree with everything but lead performance. Chris Evans was easily better than Gal Gadot. Maybe from a nuanced, technical acting perspective. He definitely ran the gambit of emotions more completely. I enjoyed Gadot's screen presence more. She seemed a more natural hero/athlete in her scenes, even the standing around talking scenes. That's not really a knock on Evans, her portrayal in this one considering the absolute trash she had to work with might have been the best individual performance in a superhero movie ever. (As much as I enjoy RDJ's portrayal of Tony Stark, he spends most of his movies out of his suit and not in "hero mode". That's almost a different category to me.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT14 Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 7 hours ago, thrILL! said: Agree with everything but lead performance. Chris Evans was easily better than Gal Gadot. Yeah seriously. No knock on Gadot, she's okay, but Chris Evans really took to Cap well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theJ Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 15 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said: Hot Take Alert: Wonder Woman was a poor man's Captain America: The First Avenger. Better lead performance, worse everything else. They're easy movies to compare, considering the settings were very similar and they use WWII as the main plot vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 4 hours ago, MikeT14 said: Yeah seriously. No knock on Gadot, she's okay, but Chris Evans really took to Cap well. I was of the impression he didn't really hit that high echelon until Avengers/Winter Soldier, but to each their own. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT14 Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: I was of the impression he didn't really hit that high echelon until Avengers/Winter Soldier, but to each their own. Okay, I am following your train of thought now. I was thinking too broadly at first. First Avenger is one of my favorite Marvel movies ever though, so I'll stick with what I said. Edited June 10, 2019 by MikeT14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43M Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 3 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: I was of the impression he didn't really hit that high echelon until Avengers/Winter Soldier, but to each their own. The Cap movies didnt take off until then....but his performance in First Avenger was terrific. First Avenger as a whole was somewhat slow...but still better than WW IMO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bootsy Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 On 6/9/2019 at 4:40 PM, FourThreeMafia said: Good for you. You're obviously entitled to your opinion, but you're in the minority. Let me rephrase what I said though... even the best movie in the DCU COULD BE ARGUED are at or near the bottom of the MCU. I never saw Shazam or either Ant Man, so I cant speak on them. Aquaman is the only one I would agree could be argued is near the middle. Man of Steel I like...but it's just not a fun movie and not a great representation of what Superman is. A few tweaks could've made it amazing. As it stands, it's absolutely in the lower half of the MCU...but that's obviously my opinion. Wonder Woman was hugely overrated IMO. I liked Gal Gadot and Chris Pine...the story was boring and the villain was terribly developed. CG was laughable at times. I'd put it on par with Iron Man 2 near the bottom of the MCU. Now, I get I may be in the minority on this one....but I dont get why such a mess of a movie is so liked. I'm in the minority? Wow delusion is strong, very strong with you. And anytime someone uses overrated in their argument you immediately lose that argument. Using that word is overrated. You don't know what you are talking at all and just threw **** out there thinking no one like me would respond to your bull**** as strongly as I did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 7 minutes ago, bootsy said: I'm in the minority? Wow delusion is strong, very strong with you. And anytime someone uses overrated in their argument you immediately lose that argument. Using that word is overrated. You don't know what you are talking at all and just threw **** out there thinking no one like me would respond to your bull**** as strongly as I did. Wonder Woman has Rotten Tomatoes scores of 93 and 88. I feel like a strong number of people who enjoy and are passionate about Superhero movies/comics feel that those scores are too high for a number of reasons. In that sense, the word overrated is entirely legitimate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bootsy Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: Wonder Woman has Rotten Tomatoes scores of 93 and 88. I feel like a strong number of people who enjoy and are passionate about Superhero movies/comics feel that those scores are too high for a number of reasons. In that sense, the word overrated is entirely legitimate. Huh? That makes absolutely no sense. Scores of 93 and 88 are overrated? Well if that's the case so is every Marvel movie with comparable scores. So exactly what isn't legitimate about those scores. They are both very high. If the audience score was like 68 then I could see your point but in this case you make no sense. Edited June 11, 2019 by bootsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 (edited) 24 minutes ago, bootsy said: That makes absolutely. No sense. Scores of 93 and 88 are overrated? Well if that's the case so is every Marvel movie with comparable scores. So exactly what is legitimate about those scores. Their both very high. You make no sense. Do you understand the definition of overrated? As in others rate the object of discussion more highly than it is deserving of. Wonder Woman is rated as a great or transformative movie. It is neither of those things. +++ What Marvel movies with comparable scores would you say Wonder Woman was better than? The Marvel movies that cracked the 90s are: Iron Man 1: The movie that established the formula for the modern super hero film. The Avengers: The first example of a team up super hero movie actually working. Captain America Winter Soldier: Considered by many to be the best stand-alone super hero movie produced. Note: After Winter Soldier, the marvel movies started to really ride the momentum of the previous films and in that sense probably are somewhat overrated. Guardians of the Galaxy: The first real blockbuster Superhero/Comedy Captain America Civil War: The first super hero movie where heros really combat each other rather than a main villain. Also this movie is overrated. Spider-Man Homecoming: The first excellent Spider-Man movie of 7 attempts. Thor Ragnarok: The Superhero/Comedy of Guardians of the Galaxy taken to an even higher level. Black Panther: This movie is way overrated for many of the same reasons that Wonder Woman is. Avengers Endgame: The first 20 movie wrap up arc ever, and the fact that it actually was not just coherent but wrapped things up well is actually miraculous. +++ So yes, a few of the Marvel Movies are overrated, but that doesn't mean Wonder Woman isn't. Wonder Woman was Captain America: The First Avenger that caught a ratings bump on a diversity credit. If you're not someone who gives a diversity credit to giant evil corporations, Wonder Woman is overrated in your opinion. That's not to say that if you liked the film, you're automatically giving it that bump, but all you have to do is read through the reviews of the established reviewers to see that absolutely happened. For all the praise of Wonder Woman, what were it's main themes that made the movie worthy of rememberance? For as much as Iron Man is really remembered only for it's relevance to the capitalistic development of the superhero film genre, I think people forget that there was a fairly composed piece of criticism levied at the privatized military industrial complex buried somewhere in that flashy movie. Winter Soldier was making points about striking the balance between protection and personal freedom in the technological age. Most of the noise about Black Panther's thematic messaging was about Black Excellence, but there was also a lot to be interpreted about isolationism vs globalism in the sense of a technologically developed nation. Edited June 11, 2019 by AlexGreen#20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bootsy Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 8 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: Do you understand the definition of overrated? As in others rate the object of discussion more highly than it is deserving of. Wonder Woman is rated as a great or transformative movie. It is neither of those things. +++ What Marvel movies with comparable scores would you say Wonder Woman was better than? The Marvel movies that cracked the 90s are: Iron Man 1: The movie that established the formula for the modern super hero film. The Avengers: The first example of a team up super hero movie actually working. Captain America Winter Soldier: Considered by many to be the best stand-alone super hero movie produced. Note: After Winter Soldier, the marvel movies started to really ride the momentum of the previous films and in that sense probably are somewhat overrated. Guardians of the Galaxy: The first real blockbuster Superhero/Comedy Captain America Civil War: The first super hero movie where heros really combat each other rather than a main villain. Also this movie is overrated. Spider-Man Homecoming: The first excellent Spider-Man movie of 7 attempts. Thor Ragnarok: The Superhero/Comedy of Guardians of the Galaxy taken to an even higher level. Black Panther: This movie is way overrated for many of the same reasons that Wonder Woman is. Avengers Endgame: The first 20 movie wrap up arc ever, and the fact that it actually was not just coherent but wrapped things up well is actually miraculous. +++ So yes, a few of the Marvel Movies are overrated, but that doesn't mean Wonder Woman isn't. Wonder Woman was Captain America: The First Avenger that caught a ratings bump on a diversity credit. If you're not someone who gives a diversity credit to giant evil corporations, Wonder Woman is overrated in your opinion. That's not to say that if you liked the film, you're automatically giving it that bump, but all you have to do is read through the reviews of the established reviewers to see that absolutely happened. For all the praise of Wonder Woman, what were it's main themes that made the movie worthy of rememberance? Man you posted a whole lot of nothing here. You go from saying that because Wonder Woman has a 93 critics score and 88 audience score that makes it somehow legitimately overrated. What the **** kind of logic is that? Backwards *** logic. They're essentially the same score. If a movie is that close in scores that's not overrated. You don't know what overrated is. And all this other crap you posted, didn't read don't care. I made my ORIGINAL POINT in response to dumb dumb that most of the DC movies wouldn't be at or near the bottom of the Marvel movies list and that's all I'm going to say about this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 2 minutes ago, bootsy said: Man you posted a whole lot of nothing here. You go from saying that because Wonder Woman has a 93 critics score and 88 audience score that makes it somehow legitimately overrated. What the **** kind of logic is that? Backwards *** logic. They're essentially the same score. If a movie is that close in scores that's not overrated. You don't know what overrated is. And all this other crap you posted, didn't read don't care. I made my ORIGINAL POINT in response to dumb dumb that most of the DC movies wouldn't be at or near the bottom of the Marvel movies list and that's all I'm going to say about this. Where are you getting the idea that I'm saying that the movie is overrated because of the difference between the two scores? That has never been the purpose of my post. Both the critic score and the audience score are much higher than they should be. They're high for a number of reasons, that don't really hold up to a deeper evaluation. It's his opinion that the movies are overrated. I think that's probably accurate. As far as where it would rank, which of the Marvel movies that I posted would you rank Wonder Woman higher than? Personally, I thought Wonder Woman was right smack dab in the middle tier with all the other introduction movies that Marvel has come out with (Minus Iron Man and Homecoming), Thor, BP, Captain America, Hulk, Doctor Strange, etc. In that sense, I think there's a good argument to be made that the best DC movie is an average Marvel movie. Shazam and Aquaman are both probably in the bottom of that same tier. We haven't seen DC put together a GREAT movie yet, something that Marvel has put together probably 6 of. In that sense, you're both wrong. Wonder Woman is overrated and the BEST DC movies aren't at the bottom of the Marvel list, they're striving to be average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 11 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said: Wonder Woman has Rotten Tomatoes scores of 93 and 88. I feel like a strong number of people who enjoy and are passionate about Superhero movies/comics feel that those scores are too high for a number of reasons. In that sense, the word overrated is entirely legitimate. I really have no clue where this argument is going, from either of you; but the basis of misrepresenting what Rotten Tomatoes scores actually are, is probably the first issue. All that score says is the percentage of people who find the movie passable. Thats it, nothing more, nothing less. Its basically the "will you walk out of this movie" score, and the sooner the public at large realizes that, the quicker we chop out a large chunk of dog-chasing-tail arguments. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 I swear to God I am going to lose it the next time someone uses Rotten Tomatoes as evidence in an argument. It is the WORST site POSSIBLE for judging a movie. It is extremely politically bent (anything Liberal gets a 10-20% boost), and its fresh percentage is the percentage of people who said it wasn't bad. So if 95% of people say "it's not bad," it's got 95%. It is awful. Black Panther is its highest rated movie. Over 100 years of film and Black Panther is its highest rated movie. Blakkklansmen is 5th. Get Out is 6th. Moonlight is 9th. Wonder Woman is 10th. It's a propaganda website. That's all it is. It's a site taken over by a bunch of social justice warriors who are upset and cranky that they got a degree in film instead of something that will pay them anything so they're going to review movies based on their own beliefs and political leanings rather than on whether or not the movie is any good, and they're going to tarnish movies they don't particularly enjoy. Literally the ONLY thing Rotten Tomatoes is good for is determining whether or not a movie is GOOD or BAD. It is worthless otherwise, and a lot of times it can't even get that right. Evident by them having the following movies in the fresh category: Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull - 77% Hail, Ceaser! - 85% Noah - 76% Trainwreck - 86% The Matrix Reloaded - 73% 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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