Bonanza23 Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 37 minutes ago, candyman93 said: I know who Darnold reminds me of. Jameis Winston, just obviously less character concerns. I hear Darnold is allergic to crab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OttoGrahamsGhost Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 4 minutes ago, Bonanza23 said: I hear Darnold is allergic to crab. But does he f her right in the p? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aztec Hammer Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Wish these two would hurry up and make their intentions completely clear. Anyone other than Rosen or Darnold at 1 and I genuinely think we'll always be bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aztec Hammer Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 The whole thing is a very fun watch. Skip to 28 minutes though if you don't have time... You'll fall on one of two sides. Rosen is an uncoachable ****** or Rosen is a truly independent thinker in the way many of the great ones are, and he's fighting old school football guys who don't like that he's smarter than them. Watching that and hearing some of his specific comments about schemes and what's best for him... in my opinion there's surely no way he doesn't see through Hue and realise he's a clown. One thing is for sure... Rosen is a cocky/confident guy. He does seem to want to show he's a genius and it does come off as a bit of a know it all. I don't mind though if that's because he actually is brilliant. Little sprinkles of Sam Darnold in that doc. The only thing it shows of him really is being picked off in the end zone in a drill. Doesn't make the elite 11 and clearly was always a bit of an overlooked underdog. Unlike the golden boy Rosen, who the coaches placed in 11th, seemingly as a statement I'm sure. Check around 51 mins. Charlie Frye is about done with Rosen's backchat... just walks away from him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 I’m good with Rosen’s personality from what I’ve seen and heard. He’s a smart kid that needs to understand the why behind what he’s doing and has some opinions. Good for him, all strong men do. It’s the coaches job to teach him. I want a guy who can think and knows the offense, not a well trained puppy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 @LETSGOBROWNIES You make me sick of myself....the urge to long, no quality posts in response to even clear trolling is always too strong... ---------------------------------------------------------------- (Exercise) Point based ranking system of the 2018 QBs: Assign points (1-4 points; 1 point to the QB that ranks last in that Ability Category, 4 points to the QB that ranks first in that Ability category). **The Results surprised me and had me rethink some of my general assumptions and impressions about the QBs and how far they are from one another in terms of value. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- QBs in Consideration (Sam Darnold, Baker Mayfield, Josh Rosen, and Josh Allen). ***Caveat is in reality not all categories would be weighted equally/same. That is, some mean more than others, but for the exercises sake will treat them as equal.*** Categories/Winning QB Indices:: Winners Mentality/Resiliency Traits: Grit/resilience in face of adversity, strength of will (do teammates and all around him feel he's an undeniable winning force), work ethic 1. Baker Mayfield (4 points): Self made walk-on player, had blue collar jobs, teammates believe he's an undeniable force, film room junkie. 2. Sam Darnold (3 points): Working class family upbringing, had blue collar jobs since he was young, family w/o money at times before business success, teammates believe he's an undeniable force, film room junkie. 3. Josh Allen (2): Undervalued, self-made JUCO and FBS player, lived on low budged and had blue collar jobs. teammates have ultimate belief in him 4. Josh Rosen (1): Entitled, rich family, no childhood or youth struggle, country club tennis player lifer, teammates love him for his political stances, teammates believe in him, not known as the biggest film junkie and worker off the field. Pocket Acumen: Pocket poise, blitz/pressure avoidance movement (side steps, up steps, strength to shrug off defenders, subtle movement to reset to a throwing platform), eye level under pressure, ability to sense back side pressure and sack/fumble. 1. Josh Rosen (4 points): Really adept at pocket foot work and side step and subtle platform displacement maneuvers. Calm demeanor in the pocket with great eye level. average job at feeling back side pressure and sack/fumble. 2. Sam Darnold (3 points): Tremendous poise although fled the pocket more so this year based on a shaky OLine, the best of the bunch at quick avoidance and reset to another platform, eyes always down the field. Gets sped up at times, poor job at feeling back side pressure and sack/fumble. 3. Baker Mayfield (2): Great within pocket mobility. Eye level goes toward defense when the pressure is on. Doesn't see windows when interior pressure is on and doesn't always do the best resetting with sound foot work. Never experiences back side pressure and sack/fumble due to elite pass protection and offensive scheme 4. Josh Allen (1): Unseasoned footwork and presence in the pocket. Flees the pocket before even sensing backside pressure. Outside of Pocket Creativity: Ability to pickup first downs, extend plays, and throw accurately outside of the pocket. 1. Josh Allen (4 points): Unparalled out of the pocket playmaker; with uncanny deep ball accuracy on the run. 2. Sam Darnold (3 points): Wow plays and really good down field accuracy and instinct for out of pocket playmaking. 3. Baker Mayfield (2): Really good and lethal when scrambling to the right, good accuracy down field when creating; however, is often inaccurate down field when scrambling to the right. 4. Josh Rosen (1): Wins by quick release game and does not have the athleticism or play traits to win outside the pocket. Arm Talent: Ability to throw off platform and different arm angles, general arm strength, pinpoint accuracy ability, touch throw ability, down field accuracy, WOW throw ability, Quick release, explosive throwing motion, Compact Delivery ability 1. Josh Rosen (4 points): Has in all except big time arm strength, but everything else about his arm is elite. 2. Sam Darnold (3 points): Explosive albeit elongated release with uncanny deep ball accuracy. 3. Josh Allen (2): Routinely makes WOW favre like throws when out of the pocket, but has serious accuracy issues from pocket platform 4. Baker Mayfield (1): Compact delivery, plus arm, won't make the WOW throw down the boundary but is an amazing accurate thrower down the seem and over the middle on play action. Feet/Arm Mechanics: Does the QB overstride?, Proper weight transfer, foot/patter rhythm to process through routes, 1. Josh Rosen (4 points): Textbook, prototype mechanics. A thing of beauty. 2. Baker Mayfield (3 points): Won't get credit for fundamental weight transfer and sound upper body throwing mechanics. 3. Josh Allen (2): Great throwing motion, but is all over the place and inconsistent, overstriding is aserious issue 4. Sam Darnold (1): Elongated release, drops the ball down too low, gets happy feet at times, poor mechanics cause him to miss some easy throws. Processing of the game: Slow or Fast Mental processors/eyes, anticipation ability, Clutch Factor, ability to not freeze up and seize up mental processing due to cognitive load or pressure, ability to identify mismatches, blitz recognition, able to see through traffic down field 1. Josh Rosen (4 points): Doesn't always locate the blitz or account for pressure even in easy situations, the best of the bunch at identifying mismatches and getting the offense out of bad plays.Anticipation thrower extraordianire, has good clutch factor 2. Baker Mayfield (3 points): Very fast at identifying where to go with the ball, and a great anticipation thrower on crossing routes over the middle. poor anticipation thrower on all other routes. 3. Sam Darnold (2): Clutch factor is off the charts, gets fooled by defensive disguises and does not locate the apparent mismatches, blitz recognition is average at best, sees the game and works through progressions down the field with poise and efficiency, double clutches and unsure of his throws way too much. 4. Josh Allen (1): More of a see it throw it player than an anticipator, mental process seizes up under the blitz. Football Knowledge: Understanding of blitzes, defensive, how to get out of bad play calls, ability to identify mismatches, situational football awareness 1. Josh Rosen (4 points): Was given the full reigns of the offense and makes timely correct at the line adjustments. 2. Josh Allen (3 points): Makes great at the line calls to get out of a bad play or flip the run for positive gains. 3. Baker Mayfield (2): Check with me offense limits the power to change plays, but does a good job checking into runs 4. Sam Darnold (1): Checks into run plays but either doesn't have the authority or simply doesn't recognize how to adjust protections to deal with a numbers disadvantage or a free rusher. Ability to Translate Knowledge to Action: Can they take understanding from the meeting room to game play? Not enough data available to come to even a speculative conclusion. Leadership: Communication skills, willingness to sacrifice and accept the burden of leadership, commitment to leading by example on and off the field, in the meeting room and on the field. 1. Baker Mayfield (4 points): Emotional/heart beat of a team, fiery competitive spirit ignites excellence and fight in teammates, diligent working in the meeting rooms and the field rooms. 2. Sam Darnold (3 points): Hard worker, diligent study habits, organizes WRs and TEs for extra work, not committed in the weight room, not as outspoken of a leader, teammates love his lead by example mentality. 3. Josh Allen (2): Works at it in the film room and teammates love his weekly "state of the offense" meetings. Fiery competitor 4. Josh Rosen (1): Teammates generally love/respect him along with his openness on his politics, coaches and football traditionalist conservatives don't, that aside Rosen is not a football junkie, and doesn't organize the skill positions for extra film sessions according to people around the program, doesn't put time in the weight room, and sees football as something he enjoys doing but not something he's committed to with a deep deep passion, some teammates recognize that and in the pros it could be an issue. General Personality Characteristics: Likability, Trustworthiness, Conscientiousness, etc 1. Baker Mayfield (4 points): One of the boys, loved by all teammates irrespective of cultural/ethnic background, bonds deeply with players from low socioeconomic backgrounds, can speak/get along with anyone on the team. 2. Sam Darnold (3 points): More of a stay to oneself guy, but his humility and quiet candidness has bonded him to all his teammates. 3. Josh Rosen (2): Arrogant to a detriment at times, although liked by a lot of teammates he has been described as sheltered/unaware of certain realities and as a result has been known to make ignorant humor/jokes that rub some teammates the wrong way. 4. Josh Allen (1) Some teammates reportedly feel at times he acts like he's the big fish in a little pond. Off-Field/Availability Concerns: Will they be suspended, will their attitude alienate other players in the locker room. 1. Baker Mayfield (- 4 points): Pattern of issues with self control and alcohol that can't simply be attributed to "being young in college" 2. Josh Rosen (- 3 points): Will his commitment to football be questioned? Will he butt heads with coaches? Can he be a Ceo of a team and accept responsibility for the teams mistakes? 4. Josh Allen (-2): Some immaturity issues when it comes to accepting blame for teams mistakes resulting in exposing his teammates to criticism 4. Sam Darnold (-0): No apparent red flags. POINT TOTALS === Baker Mayfield 25- 4= 21 Josh Allen 18- 2 = 16 Sam Darnold 22- 0= 22 Josh Rosen 27- 3= 24 Without Subtractions Ranking: 1. Josh Rosen (27) 2. Baker Mayfield (24) 3. Sam Darnold (22) 4. Josh Allen (18) Point total ranking: 1. Josh Rosen: 24 2. Sam Darnold: 22 3. Baker Mayfield: 21 4. Josh Allen: 16 Surprises & Conclusions from the Exercise: 1. I thought Josh Allen would finish a lot higher in point total based on my subjective general opinions about him. 2. As a guy that thinks that Sam Darnold is clearly the guy from a subjective standpoint, I didn't think that Baker Mayfield would be so close to Darnold in terms of my ascribed value (arbitrary of course) point system. There's was one point difference between the two, but I clearly feel Darnold is on a different level than Baker. Is that because I value certain categories more? Is it because this exercise is obviously flawed, and bullsh*t in line with all my other long nonquality posts? What are we doing on this planet? 3. What does it say about my thoughts regarding why I subjectively feel Darnold is the one over Rosen and Mayfield although Rosen/Mayfield finished higher in most of my categories? The exercise helped me understand why don't I like him as much relatively speaking. 4. Might we be okay if we draft one of the top 3? Is it time to hop on the Baker Mayfield train. 5. It's hard to quantify belief but it's clear that my belief in some QBs over others stems from overvaluing dependability, off field intangibles, grit, and poise while I'm willing to forgive certain issues as long as I believe they can be improved upon (that is, 4 years later the QB can turn the weakness into a strength). -------------------------------- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Matt Leinart who calls games and works with USC players on a daily says " I think he may stay in school" All signs pointing to Darnold returning... Which sucks.... ------------------------ I'm now regrettably letting go of the Darnold possibility. It would've been too good to be true for it to fall into our lap. Will be unpopular but I say trade down from 1 for whoever wants Rosen... Get a serious haul of picks... Take 2 of Bradley Chubb, Minkah Fitzpatrick, and/or Saquon Barkley. Sign a veteran FA. Pray Kizer comes along. Throw up in the toilet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iamcanadian Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 30 minutes ago, Mind Character said: @LETSGOBROWNIES You make me sick of myself....the urge to long, no quality posts in response to even clear trolling is always too strong... ---------------------------------------------------------------- (Exercise) Point based ranking system of the 2018 QBs: Assign points (1-4 points; 1 point to the QB that ranks last in that Ability Category, 4 points to the QB that ranks first in that Ability category). **The Results surprised me and had me rethink some of my general assumptions and impressions about the QBs and how far they are from one another in terms of value. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- QBs in Consideration (Sam Darnold, Baker Mayfield, Josh Rosen, and Josh Allen). ***Caveat is in reality not all categories would be weighted equally/same. That is, some mean more than others, but for the exercises sake will treat them as equal.*** Categories/Winning QB Indices:: Winners Mentality/Resiliency Traits: Grit/resilience in face of adversity, strength of will (do teammates and all around him feel he's an undeniable winning force), work ethic 1. Baker Mayfield (4 points): Self made walk-on player, had blue collar jobs, teammates believe he's an undeniable force, film room junkie. 2. Sam Darnold (3 points): Working class family upbringing, had blue collar jobs since he was young, family w/o money at times before business success, teammates believe he's an undeniable force, film room junkie. 3. Josh Allen (2): Undervalued, self-made JUCO and FBS player, lived on low budged and had blue collar jobs. teammates have ultimate belief in him 4. Josh Rosen (1): Entitled, rich family, no childhood or youth struggle, country club tennis player lifer, teammates love him for his political stances, teammates believe in him, not known as the biggest film junkie and worker off the field. Pocket Acumen: Pocket poise, blitz/pressure avoidance movement (side steps, up steps, strength to shrug off defenders, subtle movement to reset to a throwing platform), eye level under pressure, ability to sense back side pressure and sack/fumble. 1. Josh Rosen (4 points): Really adept at pocket foot work and side step and subtle platform displacement maneuvers. Calm demeanor in the pocket with great eye level. average job at feeling back side pressure and sack/fumble. 2. Sam Darnold (3 points): Tremendous poise although fled the pocket more so this year based on a shaky OLine, the best of the bunch at quick avoidance and reset to another platform, eyes always down the field. Gets sped up at times, poor job at feeling back side pressure and sack/fumble. 3. Baker Mayfield (2): Great within pocket mobility. Eye level goes toward defense when the pressure is on. Doesn't see windows when interior pressure is on and doesn't always do the best resetting with sound foot work. Never experiences back side pressure and sack/fumble due to elite pass protection and offensive scheme 4. Josh Allen (1): Unseasoned footwork and presence in the pocket. Flees the pocket before even sensing backside pressure. Outside of Pocket Creativity: Ability to pickup first downs, extend plays, and throw accurately outside of the pocket. 1. Josh Allen (4 points): Unparalled out of the pocket playmaker; with uncanny deep ball accuracy on the run. 2. Sam Darnold (3 points): Wow plays and really good down field accuracy and instinct for out of pocket playmaking. 3. Baker Mayfield (2): Really good and lethal when scrambling to the right, good accuracy down field when creating; however, is often inaccurate down field when scrambling to the right. 4. Josh Rosen (1): Wins by quick release game and does not have the athleticism or play traits to win outside the pocket. Arm Talent: Ability to throw off platform and different arm angles, general arm strength, pinpoint accuracy ability, touch throw ability, down field accuracy, WOW throw ability, Quick release, explosive throwing motion, Compact Delivery ability 1. Josh Rosen (4 points): Has in all except big time arm strength, but everything else about his arm is elite. 2. Sam Darnold (3 points): Explosive albeit elongated release with uncanny deep ball accuracy. 3. Josh Allen (2): Routinely makes WOW favre like throws when out of the pocket, but has serious accuracy issues from pocket platform 4. Baker Mayfield (1): Compact delivery, plus arm, won't make the WOW throw down the boundary but is an amazing accurate thrower down the seem and over the middle on play action. Feet/Arm Mechanics: Does the QB overstride?, Proper weight transfer, foot/patter rhythm to process through routes, 1. Josh Rosen (4 points): Textbook, prototype mechanics. A thing of beauty. 2. Baker Mayfield (3 points): Won't get credit for fundamental weight transfer and sound upper body throwing mechanics. 3. Josh Allen (2): Great throwing motion, but is all over the place and inconsistent, overstriding is aserious issue 4. Sam Darnold (1): Elongated release, drops the ball down too low, gets happy feet at times, poor mechanics cause him to miss some easy throws. Processing of the game: Slow or Fast Mental processors/eyes, anticipation ability, Clutch Factor, ability to not freeze up and seize up mental processing due to cognitive load or pressure, ability to identify mismatches, blitz recognition, able to see through traffic down field 1. Josh Rosen (4 points): Doesn't always locate the blitz or account for pressure even in easy situations, the best of the bunch at identifying mismatches and getting the offense out of bad plays.Anticipation thrower extraordianire, has good clutch factor 2. Baker Mayfield (3 points): Very fast at identifying where to go with the ball, and a great anticipation thrower on crossing routes over the middle. poor anticipation thrower on all other routes. 3. Sam Darnold (2): Clutch factor is off the charts, gets fooled by defensive disguises and does not locate the apparent mismatches, blitz recognition is average at best, sees the game and works through progressions down the field with poise and efficiency, double clutches and unsure of his throws way too much. 4. Josh Allen (1): More of a see it throw it player than an anticipator, mental process seizes up under the blitz. Football Knowledge: Understanding of blitzes, defensive, how to get out of bad play calls, ability to identify mismatches, situational football awareness 1. Josh Rosen (4 points): Was given the full reigns of the offense and makes timely correct at the line adjustments. 2. Josh Allen (3 points): Makes great at the line calls to get out of a bad play or flip the run for positive gains. 3. Baker Mayfield (2): Check with me offense limits the power to change plays, but does a good job checking into runs 4. Sam Darnold (1): Checks into run plays but either doesn't have the authority or simply doesn't recognize how to adjust protections to deal with a numbers disadvantage or a free rusher. Ability to Translate Knowledge to Action: Can they take understanding from the meeting room to game play? Not enough data available to come to even a speculative conclusion. Leadership: Communication skills, willingness to sacrifice and accept the burden of leadership, commitment to leading by example on and off the field, in the meeting room and on the field. 1. Baker Mayfield (4 points): Emotional/heart beat of a team, fiery competitive spirit ignites excellence and fight in teammates, diligent working in the meeting rooms and the field rooms. 2. Sam Darnold (3 points): Hard worker, diligent study habits, organizes WRs and TEs for extra work, not committed in the weight room, not as outspoken of a leader, teammates love his lead by example mentality. 3. Josh Allen (2): Works at it in the film room and teammates love his weekly "state of the offense" meetings. Fiery competitor 4. Josh Rosen (1): Teammates generally love/respect him along with his openness on his politics, coaches and football traditionalist conservatives don't, that aside Rosen is not a football junkie, and doesn't organize the skill positions for extra film sessions according to people around the program, doesn't put time in the weight room, and sees football as something he enjoys doing but not something he's committed to with a deep deep passion, some teammates recognize that and in the pros it could be an issue. General Personality Characteristics: Likability, Trustworthiness, Conscientiousness, etc 1. Baker Mayfield (4 points): One of the boys, loved by all teammates irrespective of cultural/ethnic background, bonds deeply with players from low socioeconomic backgrounds, can speak/get along with anyone on the team. 2. Sam Darnold (3 points): More of a stay to oneself guy, but his humility and quiet candidness has bonded him to all his teammates. 3. Josh Rosen (2): Arrogant to a detriment at times, although liked by a lot of teammates he has been described as sheltered/unaware of certain realities and as a result has been known to make ignorant humor/jokes that rub some teammates the wrong way. 4. Josh Allen (1) Some teammates reportedly feel at times he acts like he's the big fish in a little pond. Off-Field/Availability Concerns: Will they be suspended, will their attitude alienate other players in the locker room. 1. Baker Mayfield (- 4 points): Pattern of issues with self control and alcohol that can't simply be attributed to "being young in college" 2. Josh Rosen (- 3 points): Will his commitment to football be questioned? Will he butt heads with coaches? Can he be a Ceo of a team and accept responsibility for the teams mistakes? 4. Josh Allen (-2): Some immaturity issues when it comes to accepting blame for teams mistakes resulting in exposing his teammates to criticism 4. Sam Darnold (-0): No apparent red flags. POINT TOTALS === Baker Mayfield 25- 4= 21 Josh Allen 18- 2 = 16 Sam Darnold 22- 0= 22 Josh Rosen 27- 3= 24 Without Subtractions Ranking: 1. Josh Rosen (27) 2. Baker Mayfield (24) 3. Sam Darnold (22) 4. Josh Allen (18) Point total ranking: 1. Josh Rosen: 24 2. Sam Darnold: 22 3. Baker Mayfield: 21 4. Josh Allen: 16 Surprises & Conclusions from the Exercise: 1. I thought Josh Allen would finish a lot higher in point total based on my subjective general opinions about him. 2. As a guy that thinks that Sam Darnold is clearly the guy from a subjective standpoint, I didn't think that Baker Mayfield would be so close to Darnold in terms of my ascribed value (arbitrary of course) point system. There's was one point difference between the two, but I clearly feel Darnold is on a different level than Baker. Is that because I value certain categories more? Is it because this exercise is obviously flawed, and bullsh*t in line with all my other long nonquality posts? What are we doing on this planet? 3. What does it say about my thoughts regarding why I subjectively feel Darnold is the one over Rosen and Mayfield although Rosen/Mayfield finished higher in most of my categories? The exercise helped me understand why don't I like him as much relatively speaking. 4. Might we be okay if we draft one of the top 3? Is it time to hop on the Baker Mayfield train. 5. It's hard to quantify belief but it's clear that my belief in some QBs over others stems from overvaluing dependability, off field intangibles, grit, and poise while I'm willing to forgive certain issues as long as I believe they can be improved upon (that is, 4 years later the QB can turn the weakness into a strength). -------------------------------- It is quite likely that Jackson could go top 5, so your rankings seem a bit warped, then there is Mayfield's height, just too much missing from this analysis to tell me a whole lot??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aztec Hammer Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Honestly, I've been having a bit of an epiphany that Rosen is clearly the best QB anyway. I just love Sam because of the magic in his play, his size, his demeanour, his clutchness and the feeling that he would suit us down to the ground. That's funny from Matt Leinart because he was on Cowherd a few months ago saying Darnold should leave and go number one even if it's to the Browns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 1 minute ago, Iamcanadian said: It is quite likely that Jackson could go top 5, so your rankings seem a bit warped, then there is Mayfield's height, just too much missing from this analysis to tell me a whole lot??? You're the worst... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwibrown Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Matt Leinat is someone you would take advice from. could of gone no.1 overall dropped and had a bad career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aztec Hammer Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Just now, Kiwibrown said: Matt Leinat is someone you would take advice from. could of gone no.1 overall dropped and had a bad career. All Darnold has to do is call up Matt Barkley and ask him how much love for his school helped him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iamcanadian Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 9 minutes ago, Mind Character said: You're the worst... Well, that a logical counter argument??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 15 minutes ago, Iamcanadian said: Well, that a logical counter argument??? You of the non-logical counter argument...responding to an analysis however faulty it may be with: 1. "What about the Height of the player....derp...Baker's short and you didn't say it so...the whole things messed up", and 2. "Where's Lamar Jackson...the whole thing is messed up." All the while offering nothing yourself. So, yes...my response "you're the worst" was indeed a logical counter argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 35 minutes ago, Mind Character said: You're the worst... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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