Official 2023 QB Thread

[Daniel]

45 minutes ago, Ragnarok said:

Hooker has a better arm than Bryce...

 

43 minutes ago, General Tso said:

oh no.. you poked the bear

He's not wrong.  There are plenty of concerns with Hooker, but arm strength is not one of them.

And Bryce definitely has the worst arm of the top five.  Doesn't mean he's a bad prospect or anything, his arm is more than sufficient.

[jrry32]

1 hour ago, AkronsWitness said:

What I think is that he is the smallest QB in NFL history with the body type of a 7th grader who will be forced into a early retirement ala Tua the moment he gets slammed to the ground by a NFL DT/DE who hes not athletic enough to run away from. Hes a inch shorter than Kyler Murray with the athleticism of Baker Mayfield and weighs 20-30lbs less than both of them.

This is a silly argument. (1) He's roughly the same size as Kyler Murray and Russell Wilson. (2) That's not how durability works. Young might indeed be injury prone. But that'll be because of genetics, not because he's 5'10"/5'11" 200 pounds. There's this kid named Austin Ekeler who is 5'10" 200 pounds and often gets slammed to the ground by NFL DLs. Somehow, his career has survived.

I remember when Jared Goff and Carson Wentz were coming out. People were worried about Goff's durability because he's rail thin. Well, rail-thin Goff has managed to be durable, while 6'5" 240 pound Carson Wentz is a walking injury. The fact that Young got injured in college is of more concern to me than his size. Of course, Tua had much bigger durability issues in college. 

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Also, he was the QB of a 2 loss team despite being favored in every game he played in last year and wound up with worse passing metrics than Stroud in every single passing category and only rushed for 180 yards on the season.

Do you want to compare Young's WRs to Stroud's?

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I just cant believe Im seemingly the only person who has this level of worry about his physical and athletic limitations putting a cap on how good he can possibly become. I actually feel more comfortable trying to turn Richardson into the next Lamar Jackson than I would having Bryce Young try to last more than 8 years in the NFL. He doesnt have the size, he doesnt have the athleticism and he doesnt even have the best arm in his own draft class.

Because we hear this year in and year out about some player, and it usually ends up being false alarm.

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Your essentially banking on him being the next Drew Brees which is a 1/500 chance or a generational player we have literally never seen before like Mahomes. Sorry but Bryce Young aint that good.

I'm so glad we have a mathematician like yourself to calculate the odds. I'm essentially banking on him being a good QB because he's good at playing the position.

[tyler735]

8 minutes ago, Ragnarok said:

Oh well.

None of the top 5 have a bad arm by any means, but I'd go AR, Levis, Stroud, Hooker, Bryce.

Hardly a hot take and probably the correct order with Stroud, Hooker, and Bryce being pretty comparable in terms of pure arm strength. 

[Ragnarok]

1 hour ago, Daniel said:

 

He's not wrong.  There are plenty of concerns with Hooker, but arm strength is not one of them.

And Bryce definitely has the worst arm of the top five.  Doesn't mean he's a bad prospect or anything, his arm is more than sufficient.

They all have better arms than Pickett last year.

51 minutes ago, tyler735 said:

Hardly a hot take and probably the correct order with Stroud, Hooker, and Bryce being pretty comparable in terms of pure arm strength. 

I'd agree with Stroud a touch better.

[AkronsWitness]

1 hour ago, jrry32 said:

This is a silly argument. (1) He's roughly the same size as Kyler Murray and Russell Wilson. (2) That's not how durability works. Young might indeed be injury prone. But that'll be because of genetics, not because he's 5'10"/5'11" 200 pounds. There's this kid named Austin Ekeler who is 5'10" 200 pounds and often gets slammed to the ground by NFL DLs. Somehow, his career has survived.

I remember when Jared Goff and Carson Wentz were coming out. People were worried about Goff's durability because he's rail thin. Well, rail-thin Goff has managed to be durable, while 6'5" 240 pound Carson Wentz is a walking injury. The fact that Young got injured in college is of more concern to me than his size. Of course, Tua had much bigger durability issues in college. 

Do you want to compare Young's WRs to Stroud's?

Because we hear this year in and year out about some player, and it usually ends up being false alarm.

I'm so glad we have a mathematician like yourself to calculate the odds. I'm essentially banking on him being a good QB because he's good at playing the position.

- Its not silly IMO, Its legitimate concern. He is not roughly the same size as Kyler or Russ. His actual playing weight is 20lbs lighter than Kyler who everyone makes fun of for being a little person and Russ is built like a NFL RB with great athleticism. The difference with Ekeler is that he is a RB who knows how to take a hit. Young is 185lb at his playing weight and the difference between 185 and 205 of pure muscle is massive.

-Tuas durability comes from the fact he isnt overly athletic, hes not big and since he stays in the pocket he gets slammed to the ground all the time causing concussions. Baker Mayfield, not overly athletic small guy is on his 4th team in 5 years because his play went to crap once he sustained shoulder/knee/ligament injuries from being slammed to the ground by DEs over and over he couldnt run away from. Being a 5'10 pocket passer isnt a good thing.

- Alabama has had the #1, #2, #2 and #1 recruiting classes in CFB each of the last 4 seasons. 'His WRs wernt Ohio State good' isnt an excuse

-The last time I saw media/fans completely gloss over any/all faults of a QB while nitpicking other prospects to death causing them to fall in the draft it was Zach Wilson getting the free pass and Justin Fields falling because of it.

-1/500 seems about right for the success rate of someone with Drew Brees' size and lack of athleticism. There is a reason his name is brought up when mentioning short pocket passing QBs, because hes the ONLY one to ever do it. Brees was also 2" taller and 25lbs heavier than Young. Trading the farm to move to #1 to select a guy who is noticeably significantly smaller than Drew Brees seems like crazy business.

I think he stands a chance of being a 'good' NFL QB too, I just think 'good' isnt worthy of the #1 pick in the draft.

 

Edited April 19, 2023 by AkronsWitness

[Forge]

2 hours ago, brownie man said:

There’s no way Houston can pass on a QB at two

you can’t bank on getting Caleb next year 

and I’d trade Stroud or Richardson over Drake Maye

Even if you trade down and got a haul with future first round picks Caleb is going number 1 next year and unless you completely all our tank there’s no guarantee you’ll get the number 1 pick or that the team that gets it will be willing to trade. 
 

Houston do not pass on a QB. Either Stroud or Richardson. 

I mean, if you don't like the QBs, you don't like the QBs. I can't say what they are evaluating that they wouldn't like any of them besides Young, but forcing a pick on a guy you aren't sure on doesn't seem like a great way to go about it either. 

[jrry32]

13 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

- Its not silly IMO, Its legitimate concern. He is not roughly the same size as Kyler or Russ. His actual playing weight is 20lbs lighter than Kyler who everyone makes fun of for being a little person and Russ is built like a NFL RB with great athleticism. The difference with Ekeler is that he is a RB who knows how to take a hit. Young is 185lb at his playing weight and the difference between 185 and 205 of pure muscle is massive.

Alabama listed Young at 194. He weighed in at 204 at the Combine. You making up a weight and claiming that Young plays at that weight holds zero water with me. As for the claim that Ekeler knows how to take a hit, Bryce Young has played football his entire life. He's been small his entire life. The idea that he doesn't know how to take and avoid big hits is silliness.

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-Tuas durability comes from the fact he isnt overly athletic, hes not big and since he stays in the pocket he gets slammed to the ground all the time causing concussions. Baker Mayfield, not overly athletic small guy is on his 4th team in 5 years because his play went to crap once he sustained shoulder/knee/ligament injuries from being slammed to the ground by DEs over and over he couldnt run away from. Being a 5'10 pocket passer isnt a good thing.

Tua's lack of durability comes from bad genetics. Drew Brees played a long time and didn't miss many games. Russell Wilson has had a long career where he's stayed relatively healthy. Young's durability will largely come down to his genetics.

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- Alabama has had the #1, #2, #2 and #1 recruiting classes in CFB each of the last 4 seasons. 'His WRs wernt Ohio State good' isnt an excuse

Young has 79 TDs to 12 Ints in two years as a starter. I don't need to make "excuses" for his production. But if you want to compare him to Stroud, yes, it matters that Stroud has better WRs and plays in a lesser conference.

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-The last time I saw media/fans completely gloss over any/all faults of a QB while nitpicking other prospects to death causing them to fall in the draft it was Zach Wilson getting the free pass and Justin Fields falling because of it.

Could not care less.

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-1/500 seems about right for the success rate of someone with Drew Brees' size and lack of athleticism. There is a reason his name is brought up when mentioning short pocket passing QBs, because hes the ONLY one to ever do it. Brees was also 2" taller and 25lbs heavier than Young. Trading the farm to move to #1 to select a guy who is noticeably significantly smaller than Drew Brees seems like crazy business.

Bryce Young isn't a pocket passer. He's a scrambler who can also win from the pocket.

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I think he stands a chance of being a 'good' NFL QB too, I just think 'good' isnt worthy of the #1 pick in the draft.

Cool. Most people don't share that opinion. I'd happily take a good NFL QB at #1.

[Towerbridge]

Kyler Murray looks nothing more than 5-9.

That 5-10 1/8 measurement was either a mismeasurement or a typo.

Hes clearly shorter than 5-10 Russel Wilson 

 

 

[Towerbridge]

41 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

Alabama listed Young at 194. He weighed in at 204 at the Combine. You making up a weight and claiming that Young plays at that weight holds zero water with me. As for the claim that Ekeler knows how to take a hit, Bryce Young has played football his entire life. He's been small his entire life. The idea that he doesn't know how to take and avoid big hits is silliness.

Tua's lack of durability comes from bad genetics. Drew Brees played a long time and didn't miss many games. Russell Wilson has had a long career where he's stayed relatively healthy. Young's durability will largely come down to his genetics.

Young has 79 TDs to 12 Ints in two years as a starter. I don't need to make "excuses" for his production. But if you want to compare him to Stroud, yes, it matters that Stroud has better WRs and plays in a lesser conference.

Could not care less.

Bryce Young isn't a pocket passer. He's a scrambler who can also win from the pocket.

Cool. Most people don't share that opinion. I'd happily take a good NFL QB at #1.

 

I agree with him. I think Bryce is first round material given he won the Heisman but not a number 1 pick 

[Soko]

4 hours ago, AkronsWitness said:

Tuas durability comes from the fact he isnt overly athletic, hes not big and since he stays in the pocket he gets slammed to the ground all the time causing concussions. Baker Mayfield, not overly athletic small guy is on his 4th team in 5 years because his play went to crap once he sustained shoulder/knee/ligament injuries from being slammed to the ground by DEs over and over he couldnt run away from. Being a 5'10 pocket passer isnt a good thing.

What evidence is there that being heavier = less injuries? Or taller = less injuries?

There’s a whole lot of big, tall, heavy guys that don’t stay healthy in the NFL. There are dozens of examples of guys with muscle and weight getting dinged up, meanwhile skinnier guys are staying healthy - across virtually all positions. 

A lot of confirmation bias ITT.

[Ragnarok]

I  do think that certain guys are more genetically predisposed to getting injured, especially ligament and soft tissue injuries.  Some people just have more elastic bodies.  But all things equal, if you subject a 250 pound man and a 200 pound man to the same amount of physical punishment, the 200 pound man will break down quicker.  There's less mass to absorb the punishment. 

[Hunter2_1]

18 hours ago, MikeT14 said:

Wasn't it just 12 hours ago Levis had the 2nd best odds to go 2nd overall?

According to who?!

[Hunter2_1]

Yeah this “small = going to get injured a lot” thing is far too simplistic.

he might get injured because someone slams into the side of his leg whilst it’s planted. Which could happen to Matt Stafford. Being under 6ft doesn’t automatically make a QB injury prone 

[brownie man]

8 hours ago, Forge said:

I mean, if you don't like the QBs, you don't like the QBs. I can't say what they are evaluating that they wouldn't like any of them besides Young, but forcing a pick on a guy you aren't sure on doesn't seem like a great way to go about it either. 

Nah 

CJ and Richardson are good enough prospects to go at 2 

if your staff looks at those two and says we don’t believe they can be successful here than you have the wrong front office 

[Forge]

58 minutes ago, brownie man said:

Nah 

CJ and Richardson are good enough prospects to go at 2 

if your staff looks at those two and says we don’t believe they can be successful here than you have the wrong front office 

Stroud seems okay but doesn't blow my socks off and Richardson's variance is pretty wide. If they don't like them, they don't like them. 

I don't have any issue with a front office that's not all in on them. Especially if they have a defender that they gave a perfect grade too (rumor about Houston and Anderson... No idea if it's correct)