Watson and NFL settle on 11 game suspension, $5M fine

[SkippyX]

Tunsil has lots of talent but year 1 in Houston he was a penalty machine. That line has been pretty bad for a while.

[ET80]

10 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

In that case I should have said "Investing in OL who can make a impact on the field"

…because they drafted them with the intention of them busting out, correct? (And for the record, Tytus Howard is actually a good T).

NOBODY knows who will or won’t make an impact on the field via the draft, so your statement is void of any sort of actual logic. 

[ET80]

22 minutes ago, Hunter2_1 said:

I do remember the holding on to the ball. Maybe I am biased, because he killed us every time he played us, but he can really dissect a defense. Stat-heavy, dangerous QB but also does stuff to lose games. That fair?

This is fair - can break games wide open, not afraid to take the big shots, throws arguably the most accurate post, flag and go routes you’ll see - but he turns the ball over a LOT.

[MWil23]

I'll sum up my macro version thoughts here for what I posted in the Browns forum:

Studies show that most people watch sports to escape real life, which is why back in the day of newspaper hard copies people turned to the sports page or comics before reading the first page/section.

The reality is, pretty much as long as Watson is on the roster, this will be front and center. Fair or not, Ray and Ben did their stuff before the social media era we are in now, and even with Ben, there were 2 allegations as opposed to 25 making it more plausible in the eyes of some, and it wasn’t under the guise of seeking them out for football treatment. 

So, brace yourselves to see every interview and postgame presser to have these questions asked at every opportunity. For these reasons alone it’s hurt my joy and fandom because I can’t even have fun being miserable anymore, let alone having to reconcile what he’s almost certainly done and this being the Browns.

Most always have and always will unite around heinous predatory behavior towards women and children. Even prisoners share that common code.

I get it. Go Browns. I’m still a fan, but man I’m still struggling here.

[tab]

39 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

 

So, brace yourselves to see every interview and postgame presser to have these questions asked at every opportunity. For these reasons alone it’s hurt my joy and fandom because I can’t even have fun being miserable anymore, let alone having to reconcile what he’s almost certainly done and this being the Browns.

 

its a good thing that watson and haslam have been so thoughtful and succinct in all the recent interviews on this subject

[NudeTayne]

1 hour ago, tab said:

its a good thing that watson and haslam have been so thoughtful and succinct in all the recent interviews on this subject

😊🥰😍

[ET80]

1 hour ago, tab said:

its a good thing that watson and haslam have been so thoughtful and succinct in all the recent interviews on this subject

I need you more in NFL Gen and NFL News. You’re a bright light amongst a bunch of burnt out matches here. 

[MWil23]

5 hours ago, NateDawg said:

Browns post-1964. Didn’t think we would actually reach a pinnacle where they would be unenjoyable to watch even in success but alas here we are.

This is post of the year material stuff

[AkronsWitness]

3 hours ago, ET80 said:

…because they drafted them with the intention of them busting out, correct? (And for the record, Tytus Howard is actually a good T).

NOBODY knows who will or won’t make an impact on the field via the draft, so your statement is void of any sort of actual logic. 

Well heres the thing about drafting football players....your scouting, scheme and coaching ability play a tremendous factor into a players development. You dont just spend a premium pick on a player and expect him to automatically be a 10 year starter. You sure cant just use it as a checkbox item just to say you tried and did it. "Well we spent 3 picks IDK what happened all these guys suck I want my money back"

If your team routinely struggles with offensive line play no matter how many picks they spend, it means there is a bigger issue there. Is the person making the draft selections good at their job, what scheme are you playing/does the players strengths fit that scheme and do you have a good coach that can help maximize the players ability. 

My guess is the Texans are missing 2 of those 3 things which is why no matter who you select at OL they flame out at the NFL level.

Theres my logic.

Edited August 19, 2022 by AkronsWitness

[ET80]

4 hours ago, AkronsWitness said:

If your team routinely struggles with offensive line play no matter how many picks they spend, it means there is a bigger issue there.

Here's the strange part - the Texans OL was actually average in the years prior to Deshaun Watson. It wasn't until Watson was taking snaps that the number scaled upwards. 

So - given that, and given the (already admitted and agreed upon) tendency to hold onto the ball flaw/strength we covered by Watson - is it possible the Texans OL is better than the sum of the results, but played with a QB who invites sacks due to his playstyle?

(Or does that not fit your narrative?)

4 hours ago, AkronsWitness said:

My guess is the Texans are missing 2 of those 3 things which is why no matter who you select at OL they flame out at the NFL level.

I've never been one to shy away from the incompetency of the Texans (especially in that dark era where Bill O'Brien was master and commander of the entire boat) but to assume a QB who holds onto the ball too long DOESN'T lead to an OL looking bad is ignoring a lot of context to how an OL has to operate. Simply put, there are QBs who put themselves in the line of fire more than any OL efficiency stats would dictate.

TL;DR - don't be surprised if the Browns OL grades a bit worse than it usually does in those final six games. It's not them.

[SkippyX]

Brooks left, Duane Brown left, talentless scrubs replaced them but yeah, its all on the QB.

Kendall Lam, Nick Martin, Julie'n Davenport, Zach Fulton,  Senio Kelemete, Xavier Su'a -Filo, Max Sharping, Tytus Howard, and 15 penalty Tunsil.

Feel free to accept the evidence and adjust your opinion. Its a really bad opinion.

[kingseanjohn]

 

 

[ET80]

2 hours ago, SkippyX said:

Brooks left, Duane Brown left, talentless scrubs replaced them but yeah, its all on the QB.

Kendall Lam, Nick Martin, Julie'n Davenport, Zach Fulton,  Senio Kelemete, Xavier Su'a -Filo, Max Sharping, Tytus Howard, and 15 penalty Tunsil.

Feel free to accept the evidence and adjust your opinion. Its a really bad opinion.

...Evidence, you say?

Maybe it's not my opinion that's bad. Let's see what others say (regardless of what it does to your narrative):

https://theathletic.com/2240998/2020/12/09/texans-deshaun-watson-sacks/?source=user_shared_article

The Texans rank 16th in pass-block win rate, suggesting they’ve been mediocre, not terrible, in pass protection. It’s also worth looking at how damaging the sacks have been. According to TruMedia, the Texans rank 17th in expected points added (EPA) on sacks, meaning they’ve been right around league average in terms of how much sacks have hurt their overall offensive performance.

Of Watson’s 33 sacks, 24, or 72.7 percent, have occurred on plays in which he held the ball for at least four seconds. So yes, we can say he’s probably responsible for a higher percentage of his sacks than the average quarterback.

[SkippyX]

2 hours ago, ET80 said:

...Evidence, you say?

Maybe it's not my opinion that's bad. Let's see what others say (regardless of what it does to your narrative):

https://theathletic.com/2240998/2020/12/09/texans-deshaun-watson-sacks/?source=user_shared_article

The Texans rank 16th in pass-block win rate, suggesting they’ve been mediocre, not terrible, in pass protection. It’s also worth looking at how damaging the sacks have been. According to TruMedia, the Texans rank 17th in expected points added (EPA) on sacks, meaning they’ve been right around league average in terms of how much sacks have hurt their overall offensive performance.

Of Watson’s 33 sacks, 24, or 72.7 percent, have occurred on plays in which he held the ball for at least four seconds. So yes, we can say he’s probably responsible for a higher percentage of his sacks than the average quarterback.

How many 4 seconds of Watson in the pocket led to big plays? It’s a secret.

Hes not perfect and he probably took too many sacks (even Rodgers does this)

You can’t find a stat that says the Texans 2017-2021 lines were good because they kinda sucked. They were crap when Watson did not play in 2021.  We both watched the games. At no point did either of us praise the O-line in 5 years. I know Lamar Smith busted some long runs but that was his speed turning 9 yards into 80.
 

You don’t like Watson. That does not mean you have to pretend bad football players are good. None of them did anything anywhere else besides Tunsil. Don’t give me Q last year because he barely ever played for Houston.

 

Tunsil was good n Miami.

In year 1 here he was penalty king. Odd when the QB holds the ball on 2nd and 20. In year 2 he had some nagging minor injuries and took the whole year off.

Man, I thought they were the 2003 Chiefs there for a minute.

 

Edited August 20, 2022 by SkippyX

[SkippyX]

In 3 years as a full time starter (2018-2020) Watson was 13th 12th and 3rd in ANY/A. This is a statistic that includes sacks. The boogeyman of running around Russell Wilson was 8th 7th and 16th Rodgers was 10th 11th and 1st in those years. Both Watson and Wilson reside in the 30s for sack % ranking but its a combo of bad lines and them trying to make plays.

Do they get horrible results sometimes trying to extend plays? Of course they do. Should they pick and chose their spots better. I'd say so. None of that makes the Houston or Seattle lines any better than they are. PFF had Houston's line at 23rd, 20th, and 23rd in those 3 years. They were 29th last year and Watson had nothing to do with it.