Christian Watson this, Christian Watson that....dude's done NOTHING, literally NOTHING.

[vegas492]

14 hours ago, Packerraymond said:

You don't think that maybe being behind Jennings, Driver, Jones and Finley alters those stats? Jordy was probably ready for more consistent snaps earlier than he got them, but that receiver room was always stocked until he left for Graham.

You don't think that maybe being in the NFL 1999 offense that was 2 WR's didn't hurt Schroeder?  As opposed to the 2010 NFL offense?

If Jordy was ready for more snaps that year, he would have taken them from a pretty cooked Driver or Jones.

We will not agree on how good or great or elite Jordy was that year.  And that's fine.

What I will agree on is how he turned up his game in the playoffs and ultimately the Super Bowl.  He had a drop or two, but really that time period (post season, year 3) is when he came of age in the NFL.  

[Packerraymond]

16 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

You don't think that maybe being in the NFL 1999 offense that was 2 WR's didn't hurt Schroeder?  As opposed to the 2010 NFL offense?

If Jordy was ready for more snaps that year, he would have taken them from a pretty cooked Driver or Jones.

We will not agree on how good or great or elite Jordy was that year.  And that's fine.

What I will agree on is how he turned up his game in the playoffs and ultimately the Super Bowl.  He had a drop or two, but really that time period (post season, year 3) is when he came of age in the NFL.  

Schroeder had 117 targets in his 3rd year, Jordy had 64. Here's Jordy's 2010 season with 117 targets:

82 catches  1061 yards 4 TDs.

Jordy had a higher YPT & catch rate than Schroeder. 

[MacReady]

3 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

Schroeder had 117 targets in his 3rd year, Jordy had 64. Here's Jordy's 2010 season with 117 targets:

82 catches  1061 yards 4 TDs.

Jordy had a higher YPT & catch rate than Schroeder. 

You forget you’re comparing him to white MVS. Schroeder was basically Jeff Janis if I recall correctly.

[ThatJerkDave]

Billy was pretty good.  His 3 year prime was 2968 yards and 18 TDs.  And his first year with Detroit he had 595 yards and 5 TDs.  I don't know where the idea that he is some bum came from.  The guy wasn't a superstar, but he could have been far worse.  In fact, he has more career yards and receptions than Javon Walker.  

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SchrBi00.htm

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WalkJa00.htm

 

 

[vegas492]

1 hour ago, Packerraymond said:

Schroeder had 117 targets in his 3rd year, Jordy had 64. Here's Jordy's 2010 season with 117 targets:

82 catches  1061 yards 4 TDs.

Jordy had a higher YPT & catch rate than Schroeder. 

Or Jordy wasn't good enough to deserve those targets.  Schroeder was.

And again, comparing two different times in the league in terms of passing offenses.

Look, fight against the stats all you want.

Schroeder's first three seasons as a Packer were greater than Jordy's first three seasons.

If you are going to say that Jordy was elite in year 3, then Schroeder was the goat in year 3.

You want to say that Jordy started becoming Jordy in the post season?  That I can get behind.

[Packerraymond]

2 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

Or Jordy wasn't good enough to deserve those targets.  Schroeder was.

And again, comparing two different times in the league in terms of passing offenses.

Look, fight against the stats all you want.

Schroeder's first three seasons as a Packer were greater than Jordy's first three seasons.

If you are going to say that Jordy was elite in year 3, then Schroeder was the goat in year 3.

You want to say that Jordy started becoming Jordy in the post season?  That I can get behind.

I'm saying Jordy probably was capable of putting up the same numbers he put up in the postseason all year, if he got the PT. He was behind Jennings, Finley, Driver, Jones. 4 established dudes. The year 3 jump for WR's is legit for a lot of guys. It's all hypothetical, and not worth arguing further. I just think the last few pages of this thread have sold short what James and Jordy were in 2010. We didn't need them, just like we didn't really need Randall Cobb or Davante Adams their first years. 

[vegas492]

2 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

I'm saying Jordy probably was capable of putting up the same numbers he put up in the postseason all year, if he got the PT. He was behind Jennings, Finley, Driver, Jones. 4 established dudes. The year 3 jump for WR's is legit for a lot of guys. It's all hypothetical, and not worth arguing further. I just think the last few pages of this thread have sold short what James and Jordy were in 2010. We didn't need them, just like we didn't really need Randall Cobb or Davante Adams their first years. 

I very much get what you are saying.  I don't agree with it.  And that is fine.

I remember James Jones being very frustrating as a young player.  Lots of drops and a couple of fumbles.  

I remember Driver being pretty washed and out there on the field mostly because of his legacy and reputation.

Let's leave Finely out of the conversation.  He was elite that year, until the injury.  We agree on that.  Totally.

And we know that Jennings was great to elite.  We agree on that.  Totally.

Jordy was the first pick in the second round.  And he did next to nothing for at least 2 seasons.  I'd argue 3.  

We agree that the post season is where Jordy started becoming Jordy.

Guess I didn't realize that in that postseason, 2010, he had one target in the first playoff game.

But 15 targets in the Super Bowl.  It's like Mac knew that Jordy as the #4 was far and away better than the Steelers 4'th corner.

Jordy had 14 targets through the first three games of the postseason.  And 1 more than that total in the one game Super Bowl.

Not that it means anything to the conversation.  I was just surprised to see those targets in the Big Game versus the rest of the playoffs.

[Packerraymond]

22 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

I very much get what you are saying.  I don't agree with it.  And that is fine.

I remember James Jones being very frustrating as a young player.  Lots of drops and a couple of fumbles.  

I remember Driver being pretty washed and out there on the field mostly because of his legacy and reputation.

Let's leave Finely out of the conversation.  He was elite that year, until the injury.  We agree on that.  Totally.

And we know that Jennings was great to elite.  We agree on that.  Totally.

Jordy was the first pick in the second round.  And he did next to nothing for at least 2 seasons.  I'd argue 3.  

We agree that the post season is where Jordy started becoming Jordy.

Guess I didn't realize that in that postseason, 2010, he had one target in the first playoff game.

But 15 targets in the Super Bowl.  It's like Mac knew that Jordy as the #4 was far and away better than the Steelers 4'th corner.

Jordy had 14 targets through the first three games of the postseason.  And 1 more than that total in the one game Super Bowl.

Not that it means anything to the conversation.  I was just surprised to see those targets in the Big Game versus the rest of the playoffs.

I think Jordy smoking the whole Giants secondary for 80 yards in the December game at Lambeau was a lot like Watson catching the 50 yard bomb vs Dallas. Told Mac "this guy needs more touches." Sometimes it takes a dynamic player doing something dynamic for a staff to realize what they have sitting on the sidelines. The Philly game we rode Starks if I recall, I think Jennings only had 1 catch. 

[vegas492]

11 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

I think Jordy smoking the whole Giants secondary for 80 yards in the December game at Lambeau was a lot like Watson catching the 50 yard bomb vs Dallas. Told Mac "this guy needs more touches." Sometimes it takes a dynamic player doing something dynamic for a staff to realize what they have sitting on the sidelines. The Philly game we rode Starks if I recall, I think Jennings only had 1 catch. 

79 yards on 8 catches.  Less than a 10 yard average.  That's not smoking someone.  That's slow bleeding someone.

To me, it's not like having Watson torch a secondary for a 50 yard bomb. 

Jennings had like 5 targets against Philly.  Driver had 7.  Nelson had 1.  

Yes. Jennings had 1 catch against Philly.

Starks had like 120 yards rushing in that game.

[squire12]

1 hour ago, Packerraymond said:

I'm saying Jordy probably was capable of putting up the same numbers he put up in the postseason all year, if he got the PT. He was behind Jennings, Finley, Driver, Jones. 4 established dudes. The year 3 jump for WR's is legit for a lot of guys. It's all hypothetical, and not worth arguing further. I just think the last few pages of this thread have sold short what James and Jordy were in 2010. We didn't need them, just like we didn't really need Randall Cobb or Davante Adams their first years. 

and Schroeder wasn't fighting for targets with Freeman, Robert Brooks, Chmura, Derrick Mayes, etc??

[Old Guy]

14 minutes ago, squire12 said:

and Schroeder wasn't fighting for targets with Freeman, Robert Brooks, Chmura, Derrick Mayes, etc??

Did you really bring Derrick Mayes into this conversation? 

[vegas492]

37 minutes ago, squire12 said:

and Schroeder wasn't fighting for targets with Freeman, Robert Brooks, Chmura, Derrick Mayes, etc??

To be fair, I don't think he was.

I think he was fighting for reps against a rookie Driver, Bradford, and Charles Jordan.  And Freeman.

No Chewie, no Brooks, no Mayes.

I think Dorsey had like 70+ receptions that year.

[Siv]

1 hour ago, vegas492 said:

79 yards on 8 catches.  Less than a 10 yard average.  That's not smoking someone.  That's slow bleeding someone.

To me, it's not like having Watson torch a secondary for a 50 yard bomb. 

Jennings had like 5 targets against Philly.  Driver had 7.  Nelson had 1.  

Yes. Jennings had 1 catch against Philly.

Starks had like 120 yards rushing in that game.

Where are the 7 catches for 79 yards from? I think in the Giants game he’s referring to, Jordy had 4 catches for 124 yards including an 80 yard TD. 

[vegas492]

26 minutes ago, Siv said:

Where are the 7 catches for 79 yards from? I think in the Giants game he’s referring to, Jordy had 4 catches for 124 yards including an 80 yard TD. 

I was looking at his playoff game against Atlanta.  I was going off of yards.

Completely whiffed that it was the one play where yes, that is torching someone ala Watson.

But in regards to that Giants game....

Yah, I see the ONE game where Jordy had more than 64 yards that season.  And next to it is a 2 target 1 catch game and a 2 target, 2 catch game.

Edited December 9, 2022 by vegas492

[chefj85]

On 12/7/2022 at 12:45 PM, Arthur Penske said:

Ya I’d  hate to see Rodgers throwing to a TE like Finley paired with stud WRs again. That was painful to watch.

also iirc GB wasn’t right and ended up paying Bennet similar or more $ than cook?

That was the thing with Finley. He was only great in flashes. He had a habit of disappearing too. He never really lived up to his potential.