Wide Receiver Outlook

[Leader]

Easy now.......I'm not getting into a retrospective over Davis - but stat fact is he didnt muff or fumble any PR or KO attempt last year.
Year one - he was a little shaky - it wasnt "comfortable" for it yet (and it could look it at times) but he wasnt atrocious.

[palmy50]

12 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

Davis w/ the physicality included you mean? Because he's more of a plus athlete otherwise I'd guess 

I just place them all together because I'm fine if they decided to keep any of them but wouldn't cry if they decided to cut any of them either. They all bring something to the table but I don't see any of them as elite or hard to replace talents. Allison and Kumerow are kinda lumped together as try hard types that are good enough with elite QB play. Yancey and Davis are kinda underachievers for their own reasons but could bring value on gameday as well. LIS, it's more about what you want than a talent gap in my eyes. I like them all but don't love any of them. 

[blankman0021]

1 hour ago, Outpost31 said:

This is a completely different argument if we don't have Aaron Rodgers.  We do have Aaron Rodgers.  We keep the 53 players most ready to help us win this year.  We don't put potential ahead of production at this point in our franchise because we're after Super Bowl wins, not stockpiling potential and / or rebuilding. 

Kumerow is way ahead of all of our rookies as far as what he can provide for us this year.  If that means we risk losing somebody who will be ready in two to three years, so be it. 

I’m so glad you’re not a general manager. 

I don’t think a  team should tilt either way too much - towards potential only or “ready” talent only. If you lean towards “ready” only you lose all your superstars in the future. UDFA Tramon williams? Cut. 

[HyponGrey]

2 hours ago, Cheech said:

Nice rant.  So who are you going to cut? 

Ghost Busters!

[firstdown]

8 minutes ago, Cheech said:

Are you denying that Davis made any mistakes when he fielded punts inside the 10 yard line last year?  

At what point would you recommend a player not fair catch a punt?  

The fact is, Davis is just as likely to made a dumb move fair catching the ball when he shouldn't or muff a ball as he is likely to break a long punt return.  

1) 78% of punts that land between the 9 yard line and the 5 do NOT end up in the end zone. 

2) The 3 yard line is the Mendoza line for fielding punts these days.

He fielded the punts exactly where he should have. Why would you say he's just as likely to muff a ball as break a long return? He had 0 muffs last year, and  21% of his returns went for over 20 yards (2 of them got called back). He was rated by Pro Football Focus as the #1 punt returner in the league last year, in part because of no muffs.

[palmy50]

I wouldn't blink an eye at keeping Davis if you could get him to grow a pair. Just a guy in my eyes as a returner though as is the case with most in the league. Very few scare ya enough to make ya think twice and if your below that level....

[moretti19]

I understand Cobb is ARODs friend but why not cut him? Davante would be better than him in the slot or even Graham. This would allow for Kumerow on the outside and one of the rookies. We would have enough speed on the outside where a defense would have to respect the go route. I just do not see what Cobb brings except injuries. We also could use Graham as a receiver which he pretty much is and have Lewis as the tight end.

[incognito_man]

2 minutes ago, palmy50 said:

I wouldn't blink an eye at keeping Davis if you could get him to grow a pair. Just a guy in my eyes as a returner though as is the case with most in the league. Very few scare ya enough to make ya think twice and if your below that level....

Which is even at that level in today's NFL? Tyreke Hill and anyone else?

[AlexGreen#20]

12 minutes ago, Cheech said:

Are you denying that Davis made any mistakes when he fielded punts inside the 10 yard line last year?  

At what point would you recommend a player not fair catch a punt?  

The fact is, Davis is just as likely to made a dumb move fair catching the ball when he shouldn't or muff a ball as he is likely to break a long punt return.  

1. Where the hell are you seeing me saying that Davis didn't make any mistakes fielding punts inside the 10 yard line last year? Of course a guy can misread a kick or a coverage team, but acting like every kick fielded inside the 10 yardline is a mistake is ludicrous. 

2. This is determined by the Special Teams coaching staff every week after reviewing game tape and statistics of the specific punter and coverage unit. A punter who excels at dropping a ball in and not having it roll forward will have a different marker than a guy that isn't as good at that skill. That's what I'm saying. There is no rule. Acting like there is a rule and that Davis is breaking it, is nonsensical. 

3. According to the pro football reference box scores, Davis didn't muff a single punt last year. The Packers returned 27 punts as a team last year. Davis returned 24 of the 27 and muffed 0 times. Other Packers returned 3 of the 27 and muffed 2 times for one turnover. If anything the data says that Davis is solid as a rock as far as not turning it over. 

Week 1: No muffs for either team.

Week 2: No muffs for either team.

Week 3: 1 muff by William Jackson of the Bengals. Packers recovered.

Week 4: No muffs for either team.

Week 5: No muffs for either team.

Week 6: No muffs for either team.

Week 7: 1 muff by Ted Ginn Jr. of the Saints. Saints recovered

Week 8: Bye Week

Week 9: No muffs for either team.

Week 10: No muffs for either team.

Week 11: 1 muff by Geronimo Allison of the Packers. Ball went out of bounds at the 6.

Week 12: No muffs for either team.

Week 13: No muffs for either team.

Week 14: 1 muff by Duke Johnson of the Browns. Browns recovered.

Week 15: No muffs for either team.

Week 16: No muffs for either team.

Week 17:  1 muff by Jamal Agnew of the Lions. Lions recovered. 1 muff by Donatello Brown of the Packers. Lions recovered.

 

 

[AlexGreen#20]

13 minutes ago, firstdown said:

1) 78% of punts that land between the 9 yard line and the 5 do NOT end up in the end zone. 

2) The 3 yard line is the Mendoza line for fielding punts these days.

He fielded the punts exactly where he should have. Why would you say he's just as likely to muff a ball as break a long return? He had 0 muffs last year, and  21% of his returns went for over 20 yards (2 of them got called back). He was rated by Pro Football Focus as the #1 punt returner in the league last year, in part because of no muffs.

Not that I don't believe you and I appreciate the support, but do you have a source for the first item?

[AlexGreen#20]

7 minutes ago, moretti19 said:

I understand Cobb is ARODs friend but why not cut him? Davante would be better than him in the slot or even Graham. This would allow for Kumerow on the outside and one of the rookies. We would have enough speed on the outside where a defense would have to respect the go route. I just do not see what Cobb brings except injuries. We also could use Graham as a receiver which he pretty much is and have Lewis as the tight end.

Because he's way better out of the slot than anybody on this roster other than Adams is on the boundary?

[palmy50]

1 minute ago, incognito_man said:

Which is even at that level in today's NFL? Tyreke Hill and anyone else?

That's my point to those that think Davis is worth the spot because of that Football Focus grade. Davis is just a guy back there really. His best value is that he's cheap. He's solid yes, as are most returners in the NFL. I have no issue if he makes this squad. Davis clearly brings gameday value. I don't cut a premiere raw talent at WR for Davis because of his return value though.

[palmy50]

10 minutes ago, moretti19 said:

I understand Cobb is ARODs friend but why not cut him? Davante would be better than him in the slot or even Graham. This would allow for Kumerow on the outside and one of the rookies. We would have enough speed on the outside where a defense would have to respect the go route. I just do not see what Cobb brings except injuries. We also could use Graham as a receiver which he pretty much is and have Lewis as the tight end.

Your on your own there. Cobb cashed in big time the year Nelson went down. I hate that contract but Cobb is one hell of a football player. He and Rodgers just need to be healthy at the same time and the numbers will come.

[Cheech]

23 minutes ago, firstdown said:

1) 78% of punts that land between the 9 yard line and the 5 do NOT end up in the end zone. 

2) The 3 yard line is the Mendoza line for fielding punts these days.

He fielded the punts exactly where he should have. Why would you say he's just as likely to muff a ball as break a long return? He had 0 muffs last year, and  21% of his returns went for over 20 yards (2 of them got called back). He was rated by Pro Football Focus as the #1 punt returner in the league last year, in part because of no muffs.

3 yard line?  For a fair catch?  Ok then.  

4 to 6 fair catches, depending on who you ask, were wrongly fielded inside the 10 yard line.  So, yeah, he's just as likely to pin the offense down inside the red zone as he is to break a long return.  

 

6 minutes ago, palmy50 said:

 I don't cut a premiere raw talent at WR for Davis because of his return value though.

This is the point.  If Davis is going to make the team he might as well have PR behind his name.  

Who are you going to cut in order to keep a punt returner?  Kumerow, MVS, Moore, or EQ? 

[Leader]

2 minutes ago, palmy50 said:

I have no issue if he makes this squad. Davis clearly brings gameday value. I don't cut a premiere raw talent at WR for Davis because of his return value though.

This is where I'm at as well. Was hopeful Davis was gonna up his WR--game this year - but he's seen exactly none of the field this year and time against quality talent is running out (if not already gone) - so push comes to shove - the rookies stay.