Week 3 GDT: San Francisco 49ers @ Denver Broncos

[broncos67]

Hamler continues to disappoint. Jeudy too. The guy just doesn't have it. Maybe he discovers something, but who knows.

I hope at some point we get a little more creative with Montrell Washington. He could be a decent weapon in the right circumstances.

[paul-mac]

29 minutes ago, broncos67 said:

Hamler continues to disappoint. Jeudy too. The guy just doesn't have it. Maybe he discovers something, but who knows.

I hope at some point we get a little more creative with Montrell Washington. He could be a decent weapon in the right circumstances.

I think Jeudy is having his best run of games in his career atm. That’s not saying much and there’s still too many drops, but I think he’s a decent #2 behind Sutton. Hamler has done nothing and really needs to improve his play soon or else his roster spot will be in question next year. 

[anewdawn]

1 hour ago, broncos67 said:

He was beyond flustered on the sidelines. Those were terrible answers. I will acknowledge the OL was not great and gave Russ less time than I think would be ideal, but that's when the playcalling needs to be switched up. It was just so vanilla and predictable. You don't play that way with the $250 million QB you just signed, you play that way with Brett Rypien. 

With regard to the bold I think the coaching staff and those in charge at mile high have stated they want Russ around a long time and don't want him getting hit as often.  The gameplan has been to protect Russ having him throw from the pocket more.  Yet this is like putting a square peg in a round hole.  I think at one level it makes sense to Russ and as it's a new city new team new coaching staff he is on board and is trying it their way but my god this is not how Russ can play yet.  He started doing good when he Russed out - meaning using his legs and mobility.  The post saying that this is one of the three worst game stretches is so spot on.  This management team needs to be careful.  The new ownership group has tons of money.  They won't care about moving on from it and they may hold them responsible for the quarter billion signing of a good qb that they don't want to utilize in the right way.  You know there were rumours of why Seattle got rid of Russ.  I would have assured him he would get paid (I mean its clear when you traded for him right, that you would pay him) but I would have confirmed he was worth paying first.  Why the rush?  If the crap continues I can see the Walton's cleaning house and starting with their own people.............  

[lomaxgrUK]

2 hours ago, paul-mac said:

Gordon’s pass pro is great but the issue with that is that you need to give him some carries to keep the defense honest (and lose fumbles as a result) or you just have him as a passing game back but then the defense can just ignore the run any time you see him in the game. 

I don’t even think Javonte and Boone are liabilities in pass pro, but MG3 is one of the best pass blocking RBs in football. 

I agree with the first paragraph, but 3 down RBs are not easy to find. I agree that Gordon isn't a dynamic runner and his fumbles are a pain, but the Coaches (both current and previous staff) value the fact he can eek out yards whilst being very good in Pass Pro.

I don't know much about Boone in Pass Pro, but Javonte is still liable to mental mistakes in Pass Pro and they are drive killers.

2 hours ago, broncos67 said:

Jewell had a huge game

I will forever be doing victory laps about Josey. He's such a good player. To play like he did with zero preseason, zero tackle drills in preseason, against a battle ready opponent was just incredible.

Glad I don't have to feel like I'm arguing 1 vs 100 when debating him over Alex Johnson any more. $11m over 2 years is an absolute BARGAIN.

44 minutes ago, broncos67 said:

Hamler continues to disappoint. Jeudy too. The guy just doesn't have it. Maybe he discovers something, but who knows.

I'm right there with you. Hamler is obviously injury related, but that injury may never disappear. Only something like 15 snaps again for him last night, in a game that was dying for someone to lift the lid off the Defense. If he can't do that, why are bothering with him?

I also agree re: Jeudy. Granted, I think a bit of it is how stupid I think he comes off on social media, but the guy just doesn't seem to have that dawg in him for those contested balls. It's the NFL - you aren't going to be uncontested very often. Also, his niggling injuries are impossible to ignore at this point.

I think pass catchers might have been the area of this team that we most overestimated prior to the season. 

[Broncofan]

Re: Jeudy, given his snap count and the very real possibility he has an AC separation he's playing through, I'd hold off any judgment on his nature on dog/not dog as premature.   Him playing out there was crucial enough to keep single coverage on Sutton.   

I get why teams don't want to disclose extent of injuries completely, but the injury he sustained 1 week ago was likely a 1-2 game miss in most cases (but usually out of pain tolerance).    Him missing half the snaps in the 2H was notable.   

Re: Hamler, ppl have completely unrealistic expectations year 1 post-ACL.  I've said it before, I'll say it again - players play within 10 months, but they do not have full explosion / sudden-ness / burst until 18 months.   We saw the exact same issue with Sutton last year - and look at him this year.    If Hamler isn't the threat we envisioned next year, totally fair game.  But realize he's a limited version of himself.   It's why keeping Patrick this year made sense (unless someone made an offer we couldn't refuse).   I say that with the open position I would have taken Jaylen Johnson as the R2 choice in the GM game, too, so really have no dog in this show.  

If ppl preach patience with the scheme and Wilson (and I'm totally in this corner)....it applies 10x more to the WR's here.    If anything, there's more reason to be optimistic, given the circumstances above.   Just in Hamler's case, 2023 is the more realistic timeframe to see him be an impact speed / vertical / YAC? guy.

Edited September 26, 2022 by Broncofan

[broncos67]

5 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

Re: Jeudy, given his snap count and the very real possibility he has an AC separation he's playing through, I'd hold off any judgment on his nature on dog/not dog as premature.   Him playing out there was crucial enough to keep single coverage on Sutton.   

I get why teams don't want to disclose extent of injuries completely, but the injury he sustained 1 week ago was likely a 1-2 game miss in most cases (but usually out of pain tolerance).    Him missing half the snaps in the 2H was notable.   

Re: Hamler, ppl have completely unrealistic expectations year 1 post-ACL.  I've said it before, I'll say it again - players play within 10 months, but they do not have full explosion / sudden-ness / burst until 18 months.   We saw the exact same issue with Sutton last year - and look at him this year.    If Hamler isn't the threat we envisioned next year, totally fair game.  But realize he's a limited version of himself.   It's why keeping Patrick this year made sense (unless someone made an offer we couldn't refuse).   I say that with the open position I would have taken Jaylen Johnson as the R2 choice in the GM game, too, so really have no dog in this show.  

If ppl preach patience with the scheme and Wilson (and I'm totally in this corner)....it applies 10x more to the WR's here.    If anything, there's more reason to be optimistic, given the circumstances above.   Just in Hamler's case, 2023 is the more realistic timeframe to see him be an impact speed / vertical / YAC? guy.

But Hamler has been mostly a non-factor since being drafted. I agree on tempering the enthusiasm around his post-ACL recovery. But I don't think Hamler has looked anything like he did at PSU. I'm not sure he ever will.

Same thing with Jeudy. Yes, he's playing hurt right now, so there's some leeway you have to consider, but at the same time, he hasn't really looked impressive at all. I know he's had QB issues which are well documented, but he does not strike me as the same player he was at Alabama. I'd love to be proven wrong of course. I'm just calling it like I see it. 

[broncosfan_101]

8 hours ago, Broncofan said:

-He also called about 7-8 swing passes to the flat - where the SF speed just negated the play to 0-1 yards.    Again, I get it, gotta try.  But he KEPT DOING IT. That's playing not to lose....not to try and make first downs.  I get it, Russ wasn't great - but giving him 2nd and 9 or 3rd and 8+ isn't making it easier.  It's not a coincidence the biggest chunk plays (outside of the Hinton conversion & Russ magic underhand improv play) we had in the pass game were on 1st down (not 3rd).   

 

I mentioned this when it happened, but the last swing pass to Gordon (that he fumbled and recovered), he was running into the space that Sutton created with a deep route. It was a pure 1v1 route with press coverage, no help anywhere, but holy **** did Court get the biggest win with an inside move that should’ve been 20+ yards. Russ didn’t look at anything but the swing. I understand that even looking at Court’s route will bleed the coverage in the direction of Gordon, but man, when I saw Court in 1v1 against press, I was locked in expecting him to win, and Russ should’ve been, too.

[Broncofan]

15 minutes ago, broncos67 said:

But Hamler has been mostly a non-factor since being drafted. I agree on tempering the enthusiasm around his post-ACL recovery. But I don't think Hamler has looked anything like he did at PSU. I'm not sure he ever will.

Same thing with Jeudy. Yes, he's playing hurt right now, so there's some leeway you have to consider, but at the same time, he hasn't really looked impressive at all. I know he's had QB issues which are well documented, but he does not strike me as the same player he was at Alabama. I'd love to be proven wrong of course. I'm just calling it like I see it. 

That's my point though on Hamler.  You won't know until next year.   How he looks right now is a mirage of what his top ceiling is.    The only thing he has right now that's close is his straight line speed.   It happened so early in his rookie year, it's impossible to say he isn't the same PSU guy.  It's a true physical limit.  

I have to point out that ppl said the very same with Sutton last year (whether he'd return to his pre-injury shape).    It's tough, but you have to literally just wait on ACL 18 months to see if he's the same guy.   It happened so soon in his rookie year, any other assessment is premature.  Again, I really say this with nothing invested - I would have gone Jaylon Johnson R2, but I can't hold what's happening right now as a victory lap (they're meaningless anyways, although ppl on FF love to take 'em lol).  It does eliminate a lot of the draft value with 2 years of the rookie deal gone, but can't predict injuries.  

Edited September 26, 2022 by Broncofan

[Broncofan]

6 minutes ago, broncosfan_101 said:

I mentioned this when it happened, but the last swing pass to Gordon (that he fumbled and recovered), he was running into the space that Sutton created with a deep route. It was a pure 1v1 route with press coverage, no help anywhere, but holy **** did Court get the biggest win with an inside move that should’ve been 20+ yards. Russ didn’t look at anything but the swing. I understand that even looking at Court’s route will bleed the coverage in the direction of Gordon, but man, when I saw Court in 1v1 against press, I was locked in expecting him to win, and Russ should’ve been, too.

Yeah I saw it - it was to the right, and you saw Sutton leave the screen and both defenders ran to MG3 before Wilson released the ball.  It was in the late 3Q/early 4Q.     Wilson pumps, and throws to Sutton, it's 20+.

I put the read on Russ - but TBH, that's also the play call.  The SF defenders recognized the route trees and jumped the short route.   That's how predictable Hackett got last night.  The safeties were up at least 5+ yards closer to the LOS by the start of the 4Q.   That's ALL Hackett's play-calling and predictability.

I absolutely would support Kubiak as play-caller - because it can't be any worse than Hackett right now.  But short of that, I would like to see Russell Wilson himself given the reins to call at the LOS for a drive or 2.  They would have to do that with the hurry-up anyways, so we know they can do it.   Now to be clear, I'm not advocating we do that all game long.   But I would do that just to set a different tone, a different mind-set.   

Now this also means Hackett would have the guts to let Wilson truly own the O.  I doubt Hackett has the stones to do that.  He's so lost out there right now, giving up control would likely seem terrifying to him given the implications (when it's likely the most important thing to do - use all the help you can get).

Edited September 26, 2022 by Broncofan

[AnAngryAmerican]

I’ve heard the story before that there were times from mid-90s through early 2000s where Mike Shanahan would realize he didn’t have a good feel during a game or during stretches of a game and just say “ok, Gary you take these next few drives” and would willingly cede play calling to Kubes. I don’t think it would be a bad idea for Hackett to at least give it a try to let Kubes Jr take a couple drives or a quarter of play calling here and there. If Mike could check his ego for the betterment of the team then Hackett certainly can.  

Edited September 26, 2022 by AnAngryAmerican

[broncos67]

1 minute ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

I’ve heard the story before that there were times from mid-90s through early 2000s where Mike Shanahan would realize he didn’t have a good feel during a game or during stretches of a game and just say “ok, Gary you take these next few drives” and would willingly cede play calling to Kubes. I don’t think it would be a bad idea for Hackett to at least give it a try to let Kubes Jr take a couple drives or a quarter of play calling here and there. If Mike could check his ego for the betterment of the team then Hackett certainly can.  

Oh I definitely think some other voices need to be involved in the playcalling. Kubiak, Outten, I don't care. Hard for me to understand what Outten is bringing to the table but I don't know the dynamics behind the scenes. That said, whatever they're doing isn't working. I can understand if there's rust early because of the approach to preseason, but this seems to go beyond that. It's a mix of a lack of creativity, unpreparedness, and failing to playcall to your players' strengths.

[paul-mac]

Okwuegbunam played 22 snaps and we passed the ball on all of them. We better fix that asap or defensive play callers will just predict the play calls based on whether or not he’s in the huddle. 

[AnAngryAmerican]

2 hours ago, broncos67 said:

Oh I definitely think some other voices need to be involved in the playcalling. Kubiak, Outten, I don't care. Hard for me to understand what Outten is bringing to the table but I don't know the dynamics behind the scenes. That said, whatever they're doing isn't working. I can understand if there's rust early because of the approach to preseason, but this seems to go beyond that. It's a mix of a lack of creativity, unpreparedness, and failing to playcall to your players' strengths.

I do think some of it has to be chalked up to inexperience. Hackett was an OC in title but in his most recent job before here, he wasn’t calling plays, it’s was LaFleur and Rodgers. Outten is an OL coach. Kubes Jr is the only one with recent play calling experience - he called the games last year in Minny under HC Zimmer, who called the defense. I really think he needs to be given a shot, like you say it can’t be any worse.  

Edited September 26, 2022 by AnAngryAmerican

[jolly red giant]

Hackett was like a headless chicken again - and that is a worry. The stuff that got fixed, got fixed largely because of the hire last week. I think he has two games to get it sorted because I wouldn't be shocked if the Walton's got rid of him at the beginning of the bye-week if he is still acting the same way. As AAA said Kubiak should be given play calling duties - it might resolve some of the offensive mess at the moment - but to be honest, even if that was the case, it wouldn't solve the problems that Hackett is causing.

On the upside - McDisaster is 0-3.

Edited September 26, 2022 by jolly red giant

[Broncofan]

Some good news from last night - Browning is apparently OK.

DJ Jones news too - obv his health comes first, just take the time he needs.  If it can be back in time for next week, even better.  If this is his first concussion, then highly likely (if he's had others, though - then just have to see how it goes, far more variability).