NFLPA investigating handling of Dolphins QB Tagovailoa’s concussion check

[Dome]

Just now, TheKillerNacho said:

I'm pretty certain that medical advice from a doctor to a patient is covered under HIPAA, but if I'm wrong on this, color me surprised and I rescind my post.

I'd be pretty upset if information like that were disclosed publicly if I were a patient, at least.

Fair enough.. we also have no idea who this girl is or what her job at the hospital. If she heard it though the grapevine it’s gonna fall on a bunch of people before her anyways 

[TheKillerNacho]

Just now, Dome said:

If she heard it though the grapevine it’s gonna fall on a bunch of people before her anyways 

Indeed so, especially since he said she worked on a different floor

[Deadpulse]

1 hour ago, TheKillerNacho said:

I'm pretty certain that medical advice from a doctor to a patient is covered under HIPAA, but if I'm wrong on this, color me surprised and I rescind my post.

I'd be pretty upset if information like that were disclosed publicly if I were a patient, at least.

As someone who deals with HIPPA every day, it kinda isnt. PHI info doesn't apply to hearsay through the halls of a hospital. 

[TheKillerNacho]

15 hours ago, Deadpulse said:

As someone who deals with HIPPA every day, it kinda isnt. PHI info doesn't apply to hearsay through the halls of a hospital. 

I mean, simple research shows that HIPAA absolutely does apply to gossip, and such gossip also usually violates the conduct policies of most hospitals. Whether or not it is commonly prosecuted is another story... perhaps it should be more - I certainly wouldn't want my doctors chatting casually regarding my treatment, and doing so is way more problematic in the case of a celebrity that is known by most people. Although, like I said from my conversation with Dome, it's a little unclear of whether medical advise from a doctor to a patient is confidential (I'd argue that it should be).

[INbengalfan]

15 hours ago, Dome said:

She commented on what she believed the doctors were feeling about a patient, she didn’t give info on anything related to Tuas health. From my very short stint as an EMT this would not be seen as an egregious violation by many people. But again this is a very limited scope, less than a year going on calls part time, so it could just be skewed perspective.

 

Is saying he checked himself out a violation? I thought that was something they could share? Some types of medical facilities can definitely tell you if someone checked themselves out, but that might not be a one size fits all thing 

This.  The team said he was released.  Is that not as much a violation as people talking about it?

[Forge]

Ruled out for next week

[Soko]

Bill Belichick saying he’s held players out despite passing concussion protocol.

Mike Tomlin holding his player out of a game despite medical opinions, saying he wouldn’t let his son play, and thus wouldn’t let his player play either.

Andy Reid keeping Patrick Mahomes off the field, despite clearing concussion protocol on the sideline.

John Harbaugh calling what happened on Sunday and then what happened on Thursday unbelievable.

Sean McVay saying that you almost “take the decision out of their hands” in regards to protecting the player first.

These are the figure heads of the modern NFL. I don’t want to hear anything about McDaniel getting a pass.

[FinSting]

1 hour ago, Yin-Yang said:

Sean McVay saying that you almost “take the decision out of their hands” in regards to protecting the player first.

"McVay’s comments carry some extra weight given that two Rams, cornerback Derion Kendrick and guard David Edwards were listed as concussed on Los Angeles’ injury report this week. Kendrick made a speedy recovery and has been a full participant in the team’s last two practices."

Full participant. That's your McVay example? 

[Soko]

9 minutes ago, FinSting said:

"McVay’s comments carry some extra weight given that two Rams, cornerback Derion Kendrick and guard David Edwards were listed as concussed on Los Angeles’ injury report this week. Kendrick made a speedy recovery and has been a full participant in the team’s last two practices."

Full participant. That's your McVay example? 

“I think the biggest thing is that it’s about the person before the player.”

“And some of these things, when you realize this game is so important to so many of us, and when you’re in the midst and in the moment of it, you think that this is just going to be forever, but you realize this is a small blip in time…I think it’s our job as coaches and really in general to look out for the person one, the player next.”

“I think being able to have relationships where you’re able to kind of understand where they’re coming from and then you can almost take the decision out of their hands because these guys are such competitors and there’s an element of, ‘I don’t want to let people down.’”

“…you have to be able to draw the line in terms of, ‘Alright, what’s really the most important thing in the big picture?’ And certainly safety always is that at a premium for us.”

These are all in direct contrast to what McDaniel displayed, so yeah, those are relevant quotes from McVay. When you have most of the major coaches talking about protecting the player, doing what’s right for the player, in spite of the medical clearance or player’s opinion…then it really sheds light on how crappy McDaniel handled this whole thing. I won’t jump to him being a dirtbag that doesn’t care - this is the first time this has happened as far as we know - but this was a major eff up that we can only hope doesn’t effect Tua’s long term health. He needs to do better.

[Kip Smithers]

2 hours ago, Yin-Yang said:

Bill Belichick saying he’s held players out despite passing concussion protocol.

Mike Tomlin holding his player out of a game despite medical opinions, saying he wouldn’t let his son play, and thus wouldn’t let his player play either.

Andy Reid keeping Patrick Mahomes off the field, despite clearing concussion protocol on the sideline.

John Harbaugh calling what happened on Sunday and then what happened on Thursday unbelievable.

Sean McVay saying that you almost “take the decision out of their hands” in regards to protecting the player first.

These are the figure heads of the modern NFL. I don’t want to hear anything about McDaniel getting a pass.

You’re not even reading them fully. You’re cherry picking quotes and use it to buffer your point. Belichick said they do a further evaluation to see if they can play. Who says McDaniels or team didn’t do that? 
 

Ryan Clark has a medical condition and when somebody almost dies as a result of it an easy decision to make. Like this is a crappy comparison. 
 

Andy Reid didn’t put him back in because it was in the 4th Quarter and the game was out of hand. If Mahomes had tweaked his ankle, Andy Reid wouldn’t have let him back in. 
 

Like seriously. This ain’t it. NFL coaches sure know how to talk the talk. 

[Soko]

9 minutes ago, Kip Smithers said:

You’re not even reading them fully. You’re cherry picking quotes and use it to buffer your point. Belichick said they do a further evaluation to see if they can play. Who says McDaniels or team didn’t do that? 

Belichick also said he’s held players out who passed concussion protocol…something McDaniel obviously should have done with his QB, but didn’t. Grasping at straws.

9 minutes ago, Kip Smithers said:

Ryan Clark has a medical condition and when somebody almost dies as a result of it an easy decision to make. Like this is a crappy comparison. 

Ryan Clark had doctors saying he was good to go. Tomlin wouldn’t hear it. It’s what McDaniel should’ve done given the obvious head trauma signs he displayed. Just because you’re cleared doesn’t mean that that’s the right decision for the coach to make.

9 minutes ago, Kip Smithers said:

Andy Reid didn’t put him back in because it was in the 4th Quarter and the game was out of hand. If Mahomes had tweaked his ankle, Andy Reid wouldn’t have let him back in. 

Let’s keep proving more negatives about what “would have happened if”! That’s always a smart way of proceeding.

9 minutes ago, Kip Smithers said:

Like seriously. This ain’t it. NFL coaches sure know how to talk the talk. 

Keep giving McDaniel a pass for something everyone and their mother saw, something the doctor just got fired for, something multiple players have spoken out against, something multiple coaches have commented on. Yep…you’re totally in the right. 

[Kip Smithers]

5 hours ago, Yin-Yang said:

Belichick also said he’s held players out who passed concussion protocol…something McDaniel obviously should have done with his QB, but didn’t. Grasping at straws.

Go read the you’re article again. He said once they do cleared medically, they do second evaluation to see if they’re ready to go back on field. Bill doesn’t say every time somebody has been cleared for concussion that he still sits them. 

 

5 hours ago, Yin-Yang said:

Ryan Clark had doctors saying he was good to go. Tomlin wouldn’t hear it. It’s what McDaniel should’ve done given the obvious head trauma signs he displayed. Just because you’re cleared doesn’t mean that that’s the right decision for the coach to make.

Again when you have had an experience that could’ve led to something fatal, it easy to make that decision just like Tomlin said. Like the Miami Heat did with Chris Bosh who had doctors clear him. We don’t know what McDaniels did after he was cleared. Did he check on him? 

 

5 hours ago, Yin-Yang said:

Let’s keep proving more negatives about what “would have happened if”! That’s always a smart way of proceeding.

As far as the injuries go, Pat (Mahomes) was in the concussion protocol,” Reid began. “He cleared it and then I decided not to put him back in.”

The decision to hold Mahomes out of the game was one made out of an abundance of caution according to Reid. At that point, the game was already well in hand for the Titans and putting Mahomes back in the game only put him at risk. 
 

that’s not a what if, that’s common sense. Just pick a better example.

5 hours ago, Yin-Yang said:

Keep giving McDaniel a pass for something everyone and their mother saw, something the doctor just got fired for, something multiple players have spoken out against, something multiple coaches have commented on. Yep…you’re totally in the right. 

Yeah I will continue to give him a pass don’t you worry. 

[Soko]

6 hours ago, Kip Smithers said:

Go read the you’re article again. He said once they do cleared medically, they do second evaluation to see if they’re ready to go back on field. Bill doesn’t say every time somebody has been cleared for concussion that he still sits them. 

Which is awfully convenient, since that’s not what I said he said? Lol. 

Your whole premise was that McDaniel shouldn’t be blamed because he was going off of the clearance of the medical doctors. That premise can only exist if we assume either that’s the standard procedure for coaches or that that’s the smartest/safest thing to do. Well the behavior and quotes from multiple coaches with waaaay more experience than McDaniel demonstrate that, no, just going off of the medical clearance is not the standard. And no, independently determining that Tua is good to return vs Buffalo and play vs Cincy was neither the smart or safe thing to do.

Your point makes a ton of sense if you don’t think about it. 

6 hours ago, Kip Smithers said:

Again when you have had an experience that could’ve led to something fatal, it easy to make that decision just like Tomlin said. Like the Miami Heat did with Chris Bosh who had doctors clear him. We don’t know what McDaniels did after he was cleared. Did he check on him? 

Aaaand we’re back to trying to explain or prove negatives. You know what else is an easy decision? Not putting your concussed quarterback out there on a short week. Whiffed, bad.

Either McDaniel didn’t check on him (bad) or he checked on him and played him anyway (bad). You don’t put a guy in 4 days after suffering an obvious head injury. Well, I guess you and McDaniel do, but the rest of the NFL world frowns upon stuff like that, apparently.

6 hours ago, Kip Smithers said:

As far as the injuries go, Pat (Mahomes) was in the concussion protocol,” Reid began. “He cleared it and then I decided not to put him back in.”

The decision to hold Mahomes out of the game was one made out of an abundance of caution according to Reid. At that point, the game was already well in hand for the Titans and putting Mahomes back in the game only put him at risk. 
 

that’s not a what if, that’s common sense. Just pick a better example.

You literally said “if he injured an ankle”. That’s the definition of a “what if”. Lol.

Mahomes was cleared, Reid sat him due to an “abundance of caution” and him returning would only put him “at risk”. Smart! Tua was cleared (wrongly), McDaniel plays him because…well we need this dubya in Week 3. Stupid.

6 hours ago, Kip Smithers said:

Yeah I will continue grasping at imaginary straws don’t you worry. 

FIFY.

Edited October 4, 2022 by Yin-Yang

[ramssuperbowl99]

On 10/2/2022 at 5:44 PM, TheKillerNacho said:

On 10/2/2022 at 4:10 PM, Deadpulse said:

As someone who deals with HIPPA every day, it kinda isnt. PHI info doesn't apply to hearsay through the halls of a hospital. 

I mean, simple research shows that HIPAA absolutely does apply to gossip, and such gossip also usually violates the conduct policies of most hospitals. Whether or not it is commonly prosecuted is another story... perhaps it should be more - I certainly wouldn't want my doctors chatting casually regarding my treatment, and doing so is way more problematic in the case of a celebrity that is known by most people. Although, like I said from my conversation with Dome, it's a little unclear of whether medical advise from a doctor to a patient is confidential (I'd argue that it should be).

Yeah this is my experience, and usually in trainings I see an example like "Cathy and Betty are in the cafeteria talking about patient XYZ, is this okay?" And the answer is always no.

 

But I'm not sure if HIPAA applies to hearsay. It obviously wouldn't apply to non-covered people, so if Schefter is listening in the vents somewhere he'd be fine, but hearsay with another covered person is interesting. My best guess is that if I overhear Cathy and Betty talking about their patient that they have real information on, and then I pass it on as gossip, I don't think I would be in violation of HIPAA, but Cathy/Betty would.

[TheKillerNacho]

15 hours ago, Yin-Yang said:

Bill Belichick saying he’s held players out despite passing concussion protocol.

Mike Tomlin holding his player out of a game despite medical opinions, saying he wouldn’t let his son play, and thus wouldn’t let his player play either.

Andy Reid keeping Patrick Mahomes off the field, despite clearing concussion protocol on the sideline.

John Harbaugh calling what happened on Sunday and then what happened on Thursday unbelievable.

Sean McVay saying that you almost “take the decision out of their hands” in regards to protecting the player first.

These are the figure heads of the modern NFL. I don’t want to hear anything about McDaniel getting a pass.

McDaniel is a young coach who was perhaps too trusting of the medical staff. I'm optimistic he will learn & grow from this situation.