John Harbaugh's aggressiveness is costing the Ravens winnable games and it should be talked about more

[Apparition]

For those who need a refresher:

Week 14, 2021: Harbaugh decides to go for 2 after scoring the would-be game-tying TD against the Steelers with 16 seconds left in the game. The attempt fails and the Ravens lose 20-19

Week 16, 2021: Harbaugh again foregoes the PAT on the would-be game-tying TD against the Packers in the waning seconds (this time with Tyler Huntley as his QB). The 2-point attempt fails and the Ravens lose 31-30.

Today, he passed up a chip-shot field goal to attempt a 4th & goal on the 4-yard line against the Bills with the game tied at 20, just outside the 2-minute warning. The 4th down attempt failed and the Bills marched down the field and won the game 23-20.

 

How many more of these does he get before it becomes a fireable offense? The Ravens missed the playoffs last year, it could be argued, because of those two decisions against PIT and GB. This year they're going to be in a dogfight to the end with the Bengals and Browns, and losing to the Bills like that may well come back to bite them in the end. 

Edited October 2, 2022 by Apparition

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

now post the plays on these attempts so everyone can see HOW we failed to convert those...

nevermind, I'll do it:

Today: Lamar misses 2 open players (Duvernay back right corner of the endzone and Mike Davis short left) because he's staring down his 1st read too long) -> Result: INT

Week 16, 2021: Huntley misses a wide open Marquise Brown in the back of the endzone and forces the throw to Mark Andrews. -> Result: Incomplete 2-point conversion.

Week 14, 2021: Lamar throws a bad pass to Mark Andrews and Mark Andrews drops it, but he's wide open for an easy score with a good throw/catch. Result -> Failed 2-point conversion:

I seriously do not know how people can watch these plays, which are CLEARLY a lack of execution from the players, and think the coach made the wrong call.

[nugpimpen]

He has arguably the single greatest playmaker at qb in the game and the odds say he made the smart decision. Yes they didn't work in those situations, but in the long run more will work than not, so I don't hate it. Stefanski is doing the same in Cle, but he's trying it with Jacoby, which I'm against, but will be fine with when we have Watson.

[DontTazeMeBro]

3 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

now post the plays on these attempts so everyone can see HOW we failed to convert those...

nevermind, I'll do it:

Today: Lamar misses 2 open players (Duvernay back right corner of the endzone and Mike Davis short left) because he's staring down his 1st read too long) -> Result: INT

Week 16, 2021: Huntley misses a wide open Marquise Brown in the back of the endzone and forces the throw to Mark Andrews. -> Result: Incomplete 2-point conversion.

Week 14, 2021: Lamar throws a bad pass to Mark Andrews and Mark Andrews drops it, but he's wide open for an easy score with a good throw/catch. Result -> Failed 2-point conversion:

I seriously do not know how people can watch these plays, which are CLEARLY a lack of execution from the players, and think the coach made the wrong call.

Your video isn’t showing but iirc Watt forced  him to try to make that throw from a ridiculously difficult arm angle in the Pittsburgh game. And we hadn’t executed for **** that whole game. Green Bay was a little more understandable.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

3 minutes ago, DontTazeMeBro said:

Your video isn’t showing but iirc Watt forced  him to try to make that throw from a ridiculously difficult arm angle in the Pittsburgh game. And we hadn’t executed for **** that whole game. Green Bay was a little more understandable.

Ah yeah it didn't paste in the time stamps

But even with Watt being in his face the play is still there. It's literally part of the design to have Watt be unblocked and sneak the RPO behind him. Lamar didn't execute.

Also, as said in our thread, NOBODY questioned the decisions when they worked in 2019 at Seattle, or New England or in 2020 when we beat KC opening night. People question the results.

[FinSting]

Ravens tried a 4th-down conversion in the 4th quarter vs Miami as well. Didn't work, gave the Fins excellent field position and they end up winning the game. 

This guy Harbaugh is a gambler. 

 

[mse326]

1 hour ago, Apparition said:

For those who need a refresher:

Week 14, 2021: Harbaugh decides to go for 2 after scoring the would-be game-tying TD against the Steelers with 16 seconds left in the game. The attempt fails and the Ravens lose 20-19

Week 16, 2021: Harbaugh again foregoes the PAT on the would-be game-tying TD against the Packers in the waning seconds (this time with Tyler Huntley as his QB). The 2-point attempt fails and the Ravens lose 31-30.

Today, he passed up a chip-shot field goal to attempt a 4th & goal on the 4-yard line against the Bills with the game tied at 20, just outside the 2-minute warning. The 4th down attempt failed and the Bills marched down the field and won the game 23-20.

 

How many more of these does he get before it becomes a fireable offense? The Ravens missed the playoffs last year, it could be argued, because of those two decisions against PIT and GB. This year they're going to be in a dogfight to the end with the Bengals and Browns, and losing to the Bills like that may well come back to bite them in the end. 

You're making the mistake of looking at results instead of choice probability. Were the the right decisions at the time. The first two you mention are the right decision and I advocate pretty much all coaches doing that (I don't remember the play call itself, that is a place where coaches routinely fail in these situations and it infuriates me).

The one today was more like 4 minutes left IIRC. It is more of a 50/50 call to me. I would have taken the FG, but I don't think going for it was unreasonable.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

10 minutes ago, FinSting said:

Ravens tried a 4th-down conversion in the 4th quarter vs Miami as well. Didn't work, gave the Fins excellent field position and they end up winning the game. 

This guy Harbaugh is a gambler. 

 

4th and 1 from the + side of the field with a 14 point lead is an automatic go-for-it situation from an analytics perspective. Again, did not execute. Punting there is your only other option, and I would rather go for it.

Ravens ranks on 4th downs since 2019 (the year they first started to really be aggressive):

2019: 5th (66%)

2020: 16th (57%)

2021: 3rd (66%)

2022: 24th (33%)

 

[43M]

I dont necessarily blame Harbaugh for today, but his decision vs the Steelers was pretty dumb.....but in the NFL, there is a very thin line between what is considered "bold and courageous"  and "boneheaded and stupid".

If it works, you're the former.

If not, you're the latter.

[Xenos]

Trying to understand if I should take this thread title seriously or not.

[candyman93]

I thought I’d never say this, but Lamar is the only dude worth a damn on the Ravens besides Mark Andrews.

 

I don’t blame Harbs putting the ball in his hands.

Edited October 2, 2022 by candyman93

[TecmoSuperJoe]

29 minutes ago, candyman93 said:

I thought I’d never say this, but Lamar is the only dude worth a damn on the Ravens besides Mark Andrews.

 

I don’t blame Harbs putting the ball in his hands.

What about J Tuck? 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

33 minutes ago, candyman93 said:

I thought I’d never say this, but Lamar is the only dude worth a damn on the Ravens besides Mark Andrews.

 

I don’t blame Harbs putting the ball in his hands.

We have good players at certain positions, the problem is that we don't have anyone who can consistently be relied on to make plays when it matters - besides Justin Tucker. Nobody, not even Lamar.

[wackywabbit]

The decisions he's making are fine. I agree with a strong majority of them, including todays.

Edited October 2, 2022 by wackywabbit

[DontTazeMeBro]

22 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

We have good players at certain positions, the problem is that we don't have anyone who can consistently be relied on to make plays when it matters - besides Justin Tucker. Nobody, not even Lamar.

What exactly are you looking for from him? Because what it seems like is you’re looking for him to be flawless every time he steps on the field. And no one is doing that. Not Allen. Not Mahomes. Not Brady. He had 3 near perfect outings before this one. Your standards here are way too high because you’re too close to it.

Edited October 2, 2022 by DontTazeMeBro