GB offense issues

[AlexGreen#20]

12 hours ago, MrBobGray said:

This Packers offense is currently trapped in a schism between two very different ways of approaching offense.  Rodgers wants to play a tempo passing game from shotgun; both the dropback and play action generally happen a lot faster from shotgun, which means your QB is in position to throw the ball more quickly and the rush is coming from a steeper angle.  But there's more: defenders get the answer to the run/pass key much more quickly, which means less false steps and the defenders are quicker to turn to pass responsibilities.  This might seem like a negative, but one offshoot is that the picture moves less in general.  There's less distortion of the pre-snap read, in other words.  So a QB like Rodgers who loves to flow chart his play off his pre-snap read, this guarantees that the picture post-snap is as close to the one pre-snap as possible. 

MLF wants the QB under center, because it stretches that handoff distance and keeps ball action closer to the LoS, where it's harder to be sure of who's got the ball with the wash of bodies in the way.  It lets you get maximum value out of a steady diet of motion and compact formations; defense wants to bring bodies into the box to combat the mass of blockers, but it increases the chances of misdirection causing your own defenders to collide and get in each other's way.  Off of that you run things like split zone, with a TE cutting the backside pursuit, or maybe he fakes it and runs a post and the safety is late seeing it because they still have their eyes in the backfield.

They essentially want to play exactly the opposite.  If you're wondering how this worked so well at first, the biggest reason of several is a guy who's now in Las Vegas.  Rodgers was willing to commit to the LaFleur system as long Adams got plenty of snaps lined out wide where he and Aaron could scheme up plays on the fly.  Adams is the perfect receiver for Rodgers in a lot of ways, because he wins so quickly he can even get open on a 9 route in the time a shotgun PA fake takes.  For most receivers, the PA is done before they finish the stem of anything downfield, so the safeties are turning eyes to coverage before they even break.  But not Adams; he was two steps behind the defender by the time the ball got to Aaron off the snap, let alone PA. 

But Adams is gone and the Packers don't have the horses to win off the snap consistently anymore.  Rodgers isn't getting his preferred wide open receivers as much.  But just as bad, he also can't evade the rush anymore.  One of the other big issues with shotgun is defenders can line up wide to give themselves better rush angles; I swear at time you see defenders playing the Packers lining up in such a wide 9 they're more of a hand down nickle.  This can be negated by stepping up into the pocket, but if your interior OL aren't great pass blockers (COUGH COUGH) there's often nowhere to go and you're between a rock and a hard place.  If you're fast and reactive enough though, you can just evade the rush instead, and since you're back from the line of scrimmage yourself you have a more direct visual awareness of the rush.  If you try that though, and you're not fast or reactive enough (COUGH COUGH), you end up getting caught from behind or just barely escaping to throw it away.

None of the things Rodgers likes to do at QB really work well with this team right now.  But the things this team does really well, he is actually quite exceptional at himself.  His ball handling skills are sensational, all obvious jokes aside and feel free to mentally fill in your favorite.  But until he can find a way to meet the talent on this team where it is this really can't get better.

Nothing on earth is funnier to me than Rodgers being incessantly unhappy about the McCarthy offense, only to then decide it's the best way to play after 3 years doing anything else. 

[Packerraymond]

2 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Nothing on earth is funnier to me than Rodgers being incessantly unhappy about the McCarthy offense, only to then decide it's the best way to play after 3 years doing anything else. 

I think Aaron wants the McCarthy LOS freedoms paired with the Shanahan route tree that relies much less on iso. It worked like a charm in 2020 and 2021, but we're seeing another 2019 right now, just without the lucky bounces that let us go 13-3. It's probably hell to learn, just like LaFleur's first season, our entire skills unit is pretty much new and showing that same rust, and our OL is now banged up and playing subpar leading to a trigger happy QB not going through the progressions of the offense. 

Still with all that slop, when you watch the tape, we still move the ball at will when we don't blow blocking assignments or have penalties.

[chefj85]

They throw too much at these new wr’s. I say let them iso a fair amount but find a route or two that each wr can master. After that, you can play with formations and such. Theyve just screwed the pooch on integrating these wr’s into the offense.

[Isherwood]

Just now, chefj85 said:

They throw too much at these new wr’s. I say let them iso a fair amount but find a route or two that each wr can master. After that, you can play with formations and such. Theyve just screwed the pooch on integrating these wr’s into the offense.

Methinks defenses would pick up on that and it’d be easier to defend than our guys already are 

[chefj85]

I dont mean it as a long term solutuon. But thats what the starting point should have been. Once they own those two routes, they can be taught to adjust to them being covered, pick up more routes. Obviously theyll run more than just those couple, but gameplan around them to start off and build the confidence and rapport. They never gave them anything to build on.

[vegas492]

Probably just me here, but......

I actually like seeing Amari Rodgers on the field for offense.  Kid has gotten open.  I feel like he's slow as heck on his returns, but he seems to have enough quickness to get open.

Maybe he should get a few more targets with Cobb out?

[chefj85]

6 hours ago, vegas492 said:

Probably just me here, but......

I actually like seeing Amari Rodgers on the field for offense.  Kid has gotten open.  I feel like he's slow as heck on his returns, but he seems to have enough quickness to get open.

Maybe he should get a few more targets with Cobb out?

I dont think he should even be on the roster anymore. I thought we learned a lesson with ty montgomery. Apparently not.

[HokieHigh]

6 hours ago, vegas492 said:

Probably just me here, but......

I actually like seeing Amari Rodgers on the field for offense.  Kid has gotten open.  I feel like he's slow as heck on his returns, but he seems to have enough quickness to get open.

Maybe he should get a few more targets with Cobb out?

i've been as rodgers opposed as i could be, but he has looked decent on offense the last 2 weeks. definitely due up for more snaps

[cannondale]

8 minutes ago, HokieHigh said:

i've been as rodgers opposed as i could be, but he has looked decent on offense the last 2 weeks. definitely due up for more snaps

Oddly coincides with the OL playing better. Amari simply doesn't do you any favors at WR. Zero room for error throwing to that guy. It's like throwing to a fire hydrant.

Edited November 1, 2022 by cannondale

[Mazrimiv]

I could swear I've been told small/fast WR's are not a good fit in the Shanahan offense.

Tyreek Hill and Jaylen Waddle Are Breaking Wide Receiver Production As We Know It

[HokieHigh]

On 10/28/2022 at 8:53 AM, AlexGreen#20 said:

Nothing on earth is funnier to me than Rodgers being incessantly unhappy about the McCarthy offense, only to then decide it's the best way to play after 3 years doing anything else. 

The only thing that is funnier is watching the vikings crown themselves halfway through the season only to collapse. The mike tice years were glorious