Joe Barry'd again

[squire12]

53 minutes ago, Brit Pack said:

thing I find with this is the statistical difference between the 15th (Green Bay) and the 5th (Pittsburgh) is 0.25 points per drive. Taking on average 10 drives a game, we are looking at 2.5 points per game difference, between the middle of the pack and a top team. While 2.5 points can 110% affect the outcome of a game I don't see it as a significant enough margin between the two positions to say one is a terrible defence (as is being pitched here about Green Bay) and the other is a great one

Now use that same thought process on 2.5 ppg and add it to GB.  22.8 is around 20th.

[Brit Pack]

1 minute ago, squire12 said:

Now use that same thought process on 2.5 ppg and add it to GB.  22.8 is around 20th.

Exactly, that is why I find the middle is quite closely bunched. And while there is certainly a difference it is not enough for me to go 'bad' or 'good'. The margins in the NFL are so small that the majority of teams fall in this middle category where things could either way in games, while the extremes certainly are where the real differences lie and that's where the 'good' and 'bad' labels need to be applied.

[Old Guy]

16 minutes ago, Brit Pack said:

Exactly, that is why I find the middle is quite closely bunched. And while there is certainly a difference it is not enough for me to go 'bad' or 'good'. The margins in the NFL are so small that the majority of teams fall in this middle category where things could either way in games, while the extremes certainly are where the real differences lie and that's where the 'good' and 'bad' labels need to be applied.

Should we be satisfied with being middle of the road given all the draft assets we've used on defense? Barry has been better lately, but he's not out of the woods by any stretch of the imagination. 

We need to start dominating bad teams, starting this week with the NY Giants. If they run the ball up and down the field on us, I'll be back on the fire Barry rant. He needs to stop the run and beat the hell out of Danny Devito's son, Tommy. 

Edited December 5, 2023 by Old Guy

[Brit Pack]

5 minutes ago, Old Guy said:

Should we be satisfied with being middle of the road given all the draft assets we've used on defense?

The satisfaction part is a fair question. Do I reckon we could get someone better in or would it be much more of the same? Who knows. History would say it would be much more or the same and we could have gone with Ejiro Evero instead of Barry and he has kind of stunk. It is risky, so I think Barry has done a good enough job up to this point not to lose his job and certainly if he was at the basement of statistical categories I would want to move on. I guess for me it is better the devil you know, and we are typically in games to win them, the development of the offence will be key for me as that will really support this defence.

Getting in a top DC is hard, really good ones become HCs like Salah, Ryans, Bowles etc and current DCs of great teams like Baltimore will not make lateral moves. So you are spinning the wheel on someone upcoming, former DC/HC, so not sure is the risk worth the reward here.

The thing I appreciate most with Barry is players play for him and he has managed to work with journeymen to make them productive and very quickly as well. That for me is a huge positive that doesn't show up on stat sheets.

As far as the premium draft picks we have invested, every team has 1st and 2nd rounders who are on defence. Typically, if we go defence early our 2nd rounder and middle rounds are dominated with the offence side players. Many of our 1st rounders are too young to say what they'll become yet. Some of the 1st rounder vets have not lived up to expectations and is that Barry's fault or the inherent nature of draft picks. 

[Leader]

Still going over the same old ground.

It's time for a change.

[coachbuns]

11 hours ago, Jaire_Island said:

I have been following GB from 2012. Even missing 1-2 key guys used to break our defense alot. Says signal caller is important blah blah..

There was lot of discussion that then D scheme is complex and not easy to pick up right away. 

Joe Barry restricted 3 good Offenses below 20 with entire secondary not playing.  What else he needs to prove?

Quit rushing 3 guys on 3rd and 20 yards to go!!  Playing 8 deep on a soft zone with absolutely no rushing pressure and letting them complete the pass for a 1st down which results in a td soon after.   Do what was successful that got them to the 3rd and 20 and continue ... be aggressive instead of soft and easy to complete a pass on.

[Old Guy]

1 hour ago, Brit Pack said:

The satisfaction part is a fair question. Do I reckon we could get someone better in or would it be much more of the same? Who knows. History would say it would be much more or the same and we could have gone with Ejiro Evero instead of Barry and he has kind of stunk. It is risky, so I think Barry has done a good enough job up to this point not to lose his job and certainly if he was at the basement of statistical categories I would want to move on. I guess for me it is better the devil you know, and we are typically in games to win them, the development of the offence will be key for me as that will really support this defence.

Getting in a top DC is hard, really good ones become HCs like Salah, Ryans, Bowles etc and current DCs of great teams like Baltimore will not make lateral moves. So you are spinning the wheel on someone upcoming, former DC/HC, so not sure is the risk worth the reward here.

The thing I appreciate most with Barry is players play for him and he has managed to work with journeymen to make them productive and very quickly as well. That for me is a huge positive that doesn't show up on stat sheets.

As far as the premium draft picks we have invested, every team has 1st and 2nd rounders who are on defence. Typically, if we go defence early our 2nd rounder and middle rounds are dominated with the offence side players. Many of our 1st rounders are too young to say what they'll become yet. Some of the 1st rounder vets have not lived up to expectations and is that Barry's fault or the inherent nature of draft picks. 

IMO, I've seen some positives the past few weeks. Your point seems to be let's keep the devil we know. Basically, we could do worse to let's not try and do better. That is no way to get an organization to the top, by settling for mediocrity. 

For me, the jury is out on Barry, which is a far cry from where I was when I started this thread. If we play great defense for the next five games, I'm in for keeping him. If we play bend but don't break and these ****ty teams are running up and down the field, then Joe must go! 

I'm open to it going either way. 

Edited December 5, 2023 by Old Guy

[Brit Pack]

23 minutes ago, coachbuns said:

Quit rushing 3 guys on 3rd and 20 yards to go!!  Playing 8 deep on a soft zone with absolutely no rushing pressure and letting them complete the pass for a 1st down which results in a td soon after.   Do what was successful that got them to the 3rd and 20 and continue ... be aggressive instead of soft and easy to complete a pass on.

Not necessarily arguing with you on this but last night in OT Bengals vs Jags, it was 3rd and 17 and Bengals did just that. I wonder how many other DCs do this and whether it is just a typical approach to 3rd and really long situations. 

[vegas492]

12 hours ago, mikebpackfan said:

Of course I have no clue.  I’d rather spend my time rewatching the game than digging into the details of how DVOA is created.  Here’s what I know:  it’s some rating system that (according to you as my only source) takes a ****load of data in and spits out a ranking of a team based on that.  In order to do so, some formula must be applied.  That formula seems unlikely to be infalliable. Especially since it would have incorrectly predicted the Packer game the last three weeks. 

NFL is random.

Barry's defense is not.  It is what it has always been.

Anyone who feels like this club can win multiple games in the playoffs with this scheme is flat out fooling themselves.

While it is nice that our defense made enough big plays to win the game, it is also nice that our offense scored touchdowns on long drives to help them out.

But if we want this team to go to the next level, it isn't with Barry or any DC who believes in this kind of defense.

[coachbuns]

11 minutes ago, Brit Pack said:

Not necessarily arguing with you on this but last night in OT Bengals vs Jags, it was 3rd and 17 and Bengals did just that. I wonder how many other DCs do this and whether it is just a typical approach to 3rd and really long situations. 

That's probably why the Bengals and Packers both struggle on that type situation.  Playing soft zone gets your arse in a bind.

[incognito_man]

3 hours ago, Mr Anonymous said:

It's going to be a real hoot as the defense gets healthy and the schedule softens yet performs worse because Barry reverts back to playing conservative. Defies logic that you'd let castoffs be more aggressive than your preferred starters but that's where we are with JB.

 

Basically a reverse jinx attempt to avoid that potential outcome but there's almost assuredly a lot of truth in there

I have absolutely no confidence the D will keep it up. I'm just out here recognizing Joe Barry has had them ballin out lately

[Old Guy]

5 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

I have absolutely no confidence the D will keep it up. I'm just out here recognizing Joe Barry has had them ballin out lately

And several people seem to not like the fact we are both looking at this objectively. Open to this going either way. 

 

[{Family Ghost}]

5 hours ago, coachbuns said:

Quit rushing 3 guys on 3rd and 20 yards to go!!  Playing 8 deep on a soft zone with absolutely no rushing pressure and letting them complete the pass for a 1st down which results in a td soon after.   Do what was successful that got them to the 3rd and 20 and continue ... be aggressive instead of soft and easy to complete a pass on.

It's infuriating .. giving a guy like Mahomes all day to survey the field.  He's literally going to beat you every time in that situation.  Hell, giving any Qb that amount of time is going to get you killed.  

[thrILL!]

5 hours ago, vegas492 said:

Anyone who feels like this club can win multiple games in the playoffs with this scheme is flat out fooling themselves.

[Brit Pack]

5 hours ago, coachbuns said:

That's probably why the Bengals and Packers both struggle on that type situation.  Playing soft zone gets your arse in a bind.

FYI the Bengals stopped that play. 

Also is this the same Bengals defence that got them to the Super Bowl in 2021 with Lou Anarumo as their DC?