EDGE Talk

[Daniel]

17 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Goose egg?  So then Will Anderson Jr is suspect for the same reason?  Anderson was almost a non impact against Tennessee because they literally schemed him out of the football game and he was basically taken out of the game and provided little impact.  Again it not all that hard in college football today with up tempo offenses and quick passing to take top pass rushers totally out of the football game.  Foskey had 1.5 sacks and a FF against USC, he had a sack in 8 out of 12 games, not exactly sure how that is bad.  

And again if he works out well athletically there will be no issue in him going 1st round.  

 

BJ Ojulari is a damn good player and could no question go late 1st round or early 2nd, he freaking only had 5.5 sacks this year.  Not sure that is going to hurt him much considering the quickness and athletic ability he shows off the edge as a 3/4 OLB.  

Dude, stop strawmanning.

I don't know how much clearer I can be.  Foskey had games where he was limited.  I said nothing about his USC game.  I even laid out for you all the ND games I've watched.  And in those games, he was not impressive.  I've said, several times now, that that is quite possibly due in large part to luck, but that is all I can say about him because, again, I will not evaluate someone on things I have not seen.  I think that's an extremely reasonable approach, and I think doing anything else means you aren't really doing evaluations.

I said Foskey was good against Syracuse, but since you seem to be just distilling down every post I'm making to this, I guess I'll just stop arguing and say Hurr Durr, Foskey BAD!  Because that's what you seem to be hearing anyway.

[Ozzy]

4 minutes ago, Daniel said:

Dude, stop strawmanning.

I don't know how much clearer I can be.  Foskey had games where he was limited.  I said nothing about his USC game.  I even laid out for you all the ND games I've watched.  And in those games, he was not impressive.  I've said, several times now, that that is quite possibly due in large part to luck, but that is all I can say about him because, again, I will not evaluate someone on things I have not seen.  I think that's an extremely reasonable approach, and I think doing anything else means you aren't really doing evaluations.

I said Foskey was good against Syracuse, but since you seem to be just distilling down every post I'm making to this, I guess I'll just stop arguing and say Hurr Durr, Foskey BAD!  Because that's what you seem to be hearing anyway.

Do what you wish, the issue I have is that it seems you just now are paying attention to him and or have watched him only this year.  As if did not exist in 2021 or 2020.  That to me is foolish and simply not paying attention.  I sure hope that is not the case.  Just watch players eligible for the draft that season and disregard anything previously they have done.  

[Jeezla]

Felix Anudike-Uzomah kinda reminds me of Derek Barnett at Tennessee, but a little better/smoother of an athlete.

[Scoundrel]

2 hours ago, Ozzy said:

How in the world do you have Foskey so low, or Mike Morris for that matter, both should and could be 1st round picks.  Both of them will get drafted before Nolan Smith, Ojulari and Anudike-Uzomah potentially.  Derick Hall is decent but kind of really was disappointing this past year but not as disappointing as McDonald, he is so weak at the point of attack but as a 3/4 OLB maybe he could just use his quickness but he is so small at what 235, production was nuts the previous two years but who knows how he will be in the NFL, really depends on how he works out athletically.

Also Garrett Nelson should be included, along with Myles Murphy.  Nelson played great and dominated games this year, was way more productive than his 5.5 sacks show.  He was a force on a pretty suspect Nebraska D and did not have much help around him.  

 

I don’t think he watched them yet he is watching them in groups

[jrry32]

4 hours ago, Ozzy said:

How in the world do you have Foskey so low, or Mike Morris for that matter, both should and could be 1st round picks.  Both of them will get drafted before Nolan Smith, Ojulari and Anudike-Uzomah potentially.  Derick Hall is decent but kind of really was disappointing this past year but not as disappointing as McDonald, he is so weak at the point of attack but as a 3/4 OLB maybe he could just use his quickness but he is so small at what 235, production was nuts the previous two years but who knows how he will be in the NFL, really depends on how he works out athletically.

Also Garrett Nelson should be included, along with Myles Murphy.  Nelson played great and dominated games this year, was way more productive than his 5.5 sacks show.  He was a force on a pretty suspect Nebraska D and did not have much help around him.  

 

Calm down, dude. They're next on the list TO WATCH.

[Scoundrel]

I wasn’t a big Murphy fan myself but I did some more deep diving on him. And I have to say he has such an impressive first step and explosion. If he can continue to develop other parts of his game he can be a power base end with an upper level first step. 

[lark25]

3 hours ago, Scoundrel said:

I wasn’t a big Murphy fan myself but I did some more deep diving on him. And I have to say he has such an impressive first step and explosion. If he can continue to develop other parts of his game he can be a power base end with an upper level first step. 

Freaks of nature with elite first step and explosion are always in demand at the position. Remember thinking this guy would be an early 1st pick before anyone mentioned him couple years ago

[Scoundrel]

13 hours ago, lark25 said:

Freaks of nature with elite first step and explosion are always in demand at the position. Remember thinking this guy would be an early 1st pick before anyone mentioned him couple years ago

Dude is always first off the ball, where in comparison a player I also really like in Tyree Wilson is the 3rd or 4th Dlinemen off the ball on most plays for Texas Tech

[Trojan]

With Tuli declaring for the draft I would like for this thread to revisit him. I thought there was a real shot at him returning with Caleb Williams to try for the playoffs next year. For a kid that is listed at 290 he looks neither fat nor fully developed. He's inside outside versatility and long running motor is very valuable. Part of my thought compares him to AJ Epenesa, but the Bills had him lose so much weight and convert him to more of an edge edge, and I don't know if Epenesa or Tuli has the bend to make that ideal. Both players look "in shape" around 290, and long limbed while very young and able to develop either larger or smaller for their NFL role. Able to penetrate from the interior or control the tackle and play both gaps. I think Tuli is better than AJ was, but it's frustrating that the Bills didn't use Epenesa quite the way I thought he projected and I can't think of another recent comp. Like AJ Epenesa I think mid-first projections will be normal, but mid-second is a possibility. I think Tuli can get bigger and stronger which is a scary prospect and if he can full time interior is a possibilty, that said he has athleticism to be a super sized LB like GB has done with Gary and previously with the Smiths. Excited for his testing at the combine.

Edited January 5, 2023 by Trojan

[jrry32]

On 12/22/2022 at 4:47 AM, jrry32 said:

I started evaluating some of the Late Day 1/Day 2 guys. Here are my preliminary thoughts:

1. Nolan Smith EDGE Georgia - Very intriguing. Gives tons of effort, disciplined against the run, outstanding athlete with legit cover skills, has some pop in his hands, plays bigger and stronger than you expect against the run, and when Georgia turns him loose, he flashes some bend and cornering. Doesn't have a ton of true pass rush snaps, as UGA asked him to play a more calculated and disciplined role, so pass rush is a bit of a projection. But he has the tools. Wish he was a little bigger, as I have some concerns about how he'll fare as a true EDGE against OTs who can engulf him with size and power. Could be a stellar OLB in a system that wants a hybrid player (rusher and off-the-ball backer). Has huge amount of upside as an EDGE too. I'm struggling to come up with a comparison. Maybe Julian Peterson or Jamie Collins (when he was motivated and playing well).

2. B.J. Ojulari EDGE LSU - He's better than Azeez was as a prospect imo. I understand why he's being talked about as a second rounder, but I think he's going to vastly outplayed his draft spot if he lands there. He's explosive off the LOS, he's twitchy, he's very bendy and consistently is able to play under blocks, and he gives relentless effort. Yes, he's a finesse guy who hasn't shown any sort of consistent power game. Yes, he's not going to be a plus run defender. But he has an outstanding motor and plays hard on run downs, so he's not a guy who will kill you there either. (Although, teams can use his aggressiveness against him.) At the end of the day, this is a passing league, and he's a dude who can give you double digit sacks. And he's not a one-trick pony as a pass rusher. He's finesse, but he's savvy, utilizes a lot of different moves and techniques, and has the twitch and quickness to win inside if OTs try to cheat outside. He reminds me of post-breakout Shaq Barrett.

3. Felix Anudike-Uzomah EDGE Kansas State - He's still figuring things out, but he has the tools to be an impact guy. Explosive off the snap with a legit power game. Has enough bend to corner and flatten. Uses his hands well, even if he doesn't have a diverse set of pass rush moves or a developed pass rush plan at this point in time. Gives great effort. He defends the run relatively well. He's a strong dude who can hold his ground and set the edge. Could get better at identifying where the ball is going and figuring out how to defeat the blocking scheme, but again, the tools are there to be a quality run defender. If he develops, he's a good to very good player in both run defense and pass rushing. Brian Orakpo is the guy who came to mind for me if Felix develops well.

4. Derick Hall EDGE Auburn - Great movement skills and very difficult to move in the running game, but I felt his pass rush was too reliant on effort and power. Face up pass rusher who didn't corner or bend well imo. I feel like he's a lesser version of Jermaine Johnson from last year. Physical, strong dude who can run. He'll defend the run for you. He'll get pressure on the QB through effort, power, and relentlessness, but I'm not sure what the pass rush upside is. Might be more of a glue guy than a difference maker. 

5. Zach Harrison EDGE Ohio State - Didn't blow me away. You can see the tools. He's fast and explosive in a straight line. He's a strong dude. But he didn't seem very natural. I didn't feel he made the same impact as the other guys I watched. I can understand why a team will take a shot on him, but he wasn't my cup of tea.

6. Isaiah McGuire EDGE Missouri - Powerful and physical guy with hands that shock the OL and more cornering ability than you expect, but he's not overly explosive or fast. I felt like his effort came and went too. When he was engaged, he was capable of bullying the guy across from him. But the motor seemed to run hot and cold. Seemed like a better fit as a 4-3 DL.

Next on the list:

1. Jared Verse EDGE FSU

2. Byron Young EDGE Tennessee

3. Mike Morris EDGE Michigan

4. Isaiah Foskey EDGE Notre Dame

5. Will McDonald EDGE Iowa State

6. Laiatu Latu EDGE UCLA

This is a really, really good EDGE class. I departed some from my list. Here are the guys I recently evaluated (in no order):

1. Will McDonald EDGE Iowa State - I will just say that I absolutely hate trying to evaluate EDGEs and DLs in Iowa State's defense. I couldn't believe they used a 6'3" 235 pound edge rusher as an IDL. It made McDonald's evaluation so much more difficult and time consuming than it needed to be. McDonald is a boom/bust prospect. In terms of tools, he could potential have all of them if he gets bigger and stronger. He has very long arms relative to his size, which makes him a more effective run defender than you'd expect give his frame. He's explosive off the LOS and has closing speed. He can corner and flatten, although he doesn't have the bend, balance, and body control that Ojulari has. He's very quick and twitchy. And he has some pop in his hands. Issue is that the scheme did him a real disservice by almost never letting him rush as a true EDGE player. Because of that, McDonald's pass rush plans, pass rush moves, and footwork as an edge rusher are very underdeveloped. He has huge upside, though.

2. Dylan Horton EDGE TCU - Horton is another guy who played in a scheme that limited him some. TCU often had him align as a 4i. Horton's relentlessness, pursuit/closing speed, and physicality stood out to me. He has powerful hands, has the explosiveness off the ball to threaten OTs, the quickness to dip inside, and the power to fight through blockers. The one thing I didn't see, and this might be due to the scheme, was the ability to turn the corner and flatten. The few times I saw him run the arc, he had to take a wider path. The other thing I noticed is that he doesn't seem to have overly long arms. As a run defender, he's physical and violent, but he plays too high, which allows OLs to uproot him. Horton reminded me of Dante Fowler Jr. (at least the high-motor version who played for the Rams).

3. Drew Sanders EDGE Arkansas - Because Sanders played more of an off-the-ball LB role this year, there's a lot of projecting to do with him as an EDGE. I like his length, fluidity, speed, body control, cover skills, and quickness. If he wants to be an EDGE, he's going to need to get bigger and stronger. Right now, his pass rush approach seems to be speed to power or trying to win with an outside fake followed by a quick inside swim move. The tools and potential are there. He plays with a great motor. And he's an instinctive player. The one thing I didn't see was bend and cornering ability. I don't know if it's because he doesn't have it or because Arkansas didn't want him getting too far upfield. Assuming his pass rush plans and moves develop, I could see his potential being somebody like Sam Hubbard or Leonard Floyd, assuming he doesn't have great bend hidden in that skillset.

4. Lukas Van Ness EDGE Iowa - He didn't seem a fit for the Rams are needing (a guy who can win with quickness off the edge). You can definitely see the physical tools there. Explosive off the ball, long, and very strong. I felt like he needed more variety in his pass rush approach and to do a better job of attacking the half man. I didn't spend as much time on his evaluation because it was clear early on that he wasn't a fit for what I think the Rams need. Toolsy kid, though.

[Scoundrel]

1 hour ago, Trojan said:

With Tuli declaring for the draft I would like for this thread to revisit him. I thought there was a real shot at him returning with Caleb Williams to try for the playoffs next year. For a kid that is listed at 290 he looks neither fat nor fully developed. He's inside outside versatility and long running motor is very valuable. Part of my thought compares him to AJ Epenesa, but the Bills had him lose so much weight and convert him to more of an edge edge, and I don't know if Epenesa or Tuli has the bend to make that ideal. Both players look "in shape" around 290, and long limbed while very young and able to develop either larger or smaller for their NFL role. Able to penetrate from the interior or control the tackle and play both gaps. I think Tuli is better than AJ was, but it's frustrating that the Bills didn't use Epenesa quite the way I thought he projected and I can't think of another recent comp. Like AJ Epenesa I think mid-first projections will be normal, but mid-second is a possibility. I think Tuli can get bigger and stronger which is a scary prospect and if he can full time interior is a possibilty, that said he has athleticism to be a super sized LB like GB has done with Gary and previously with the Smiths. Excited for his testing at the combine.

He’s a top 10 prospect for me and has been for a bit. Maybe I’m too high on him and let’s see his testing numbers but he’s exciting. Won’t turn 21 until September.

[Trojan]

31 minutes ago, Scoundrel said:

He’s a top 10 prospect for me and has been for a bit. Maybe I’m too high on him and let’s see his testing numbers but he’s exciting. Won’t turn 21 until September.

Were you the one pimping Travon Walker top 5 really really early last year? If so how would you compare the two of them (edit: at this stage, like pre-Walkers legendary combine just you really like them near the end of bowl season and are much higher on them than media)?

Edited January 5, 2023 by Trojan

[Scoundrel]

11 minutes ago, Trojan said:

Were you the one pimping Travon Walker top 5 really really early last year? If so how would you compare the two of them (edit: at this stage, like pre-Walkers legendary combine just you really like them near the end of bowl season and are much higher on them than media)?

I like Tuli better than Travon. I don’t think I had him top 5 early but I had him top 15 for a while and he eventually ended up 2 on my board when it was all said and done partly due to combine performance and projection. Tuli is more advanced as a pass rusher and while he won’t be the athlete Travon is he doesn’t have to be. His versatility is exciting. I am really interested in seeing what Tuli actually weighs at the combine. Wouldn’t be surprised if he comes in at 275ish trying to perform better athletically and stick at edge. 

[jebrick]

11 hours ago, Scoundrel said:

I like Tuli better than Travon. I don’t think I had him top 5 early but I had him top 15 for a while and he eventually ended up 2 on my board when it was all said and done partly due to combine performance and projection. Tuli is more advanced as a pass rusher and while he won’t be the athlete Travon is he doesn’t have to be. His versatility is exciting. I am really interested in seeing what Tuli actually weighs at the combine. Wouldn’t be surprised if he comes in at 275ish trying to perform better athletically and stick at edge. 

Walker and Tuli are best at two different positions.  Walker is a pure 3 tech.  Realizing that Georgia played him at 1/3/5 in their defense. In the NFL, he is a great 3 tech.   Tuli played at 1/3/5/7 tech in the USC defense.  He is best at EDGE rather than inside.  If you see him ranked low(er) generally, they are thinking of him as a 3/5 tech.  As a 7/9, he will be a beast.

[Scoundrel]

1 hour ago, jebrick said:

Walker and Tuli are best at two different positions.  Walker is a pure 3 tech.  Realizing that Georgia played him at 1/3/5 in their defense. In the NFL, he is a great 3 tech.   Tuli played at 1/3/5/7 tech in the USC defense.  He is best at EDGE rather than inside.  If you see him ranked low(er) generally, they are thinking of him as a 3/5 tech.  As a 7/9, he will be a beast.

So I’ll get some heat for this and I’m not even saying he will be as good but it’s fine. I have been watching both of their college highlights and while he doesn’t look as quick or as long there are some plays where Tuli’s play looks like college JJ Watt.