How much blame belongs to George Paton?

[AKRNA]

2 hours ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

I cannot tell if there is some sarcasm in here or not, but George was hired by Elway/Ellis to be the full GM - which is more than Player Personnel Director - he was, from the day he was hired, the team’s “football czar,” replacing Elway, who remained as an advisor but had no real power, by his own admission. 

Furthermore, the Walmarts said George is their football guy, he is in charge of all things football while Damani Leech handles business/stadium stuff. 

As I mentioned, George has made mistakes, like all GMs do, and some of them are big ones. Huge ones. Enormously consequential ones. But I also think he deserves a chance to right the ship rather than have the Walmarts try to figure it out on their own. Even with the ancillary owners - yes, Secretary Rice is a passionate football fan, Sir Hamilton is a world renowned race car driver, Mrs Hobson chaired Starbucks - they’re not dyed in the wool football people and neither are the Walmarts. 

Give George - an exceptionally well regarded football person by all accounts, his mistakes (most of them only realized in hindsight) L not withstanding, a chance to right the ship with a new coaching staff and some greater accountability in the building. 

If that's truly the case it was an awful hire. Even in the teams website they only mention his abilities with personnel, not running a franchise. Not even close. He didn't have any!

That would be a perfect example of raising a man to his own level of incompetence, then either putting up with it or firing him. aka "The Peter Principle". @broncos_fan _from _ukhas pointed this out in several different occasions in different areas of this team and this would seem to fit the bill.

I don't think that's the case though. Elway was always listed as VP of Football Operations / GM. George was only listed as GM.

Seems to be our MO lately.

[AnAngryAmerican]

54 minutes ago, AKRNA said:

If that's truly the case it was an awful hire. Even in the teams website they only mention his abilities with personnel, not running a franchise. Not even close. He didn't have any!

That would be a perfect example of raising a man to his own level of incompetence, then either putting up with it or firing him. aka "The Peter Principle". @broncos_fan _from _ukhas pointed this out in several different occasions in different areas of this team and this would seem to fit the bill.

I don't think that's the case though. Elway was always listed as VP of Football Operations / GM. George was only listed as GM.

Seems to be our MO lately.

 Xxxx

Edited December 9, 2022 by AnAngryAmerican

[broncos67]

10 hours ago, AKRNA said:

If that's truly the case it was an awful hire. Even in the teams website they only mention his abilities with personnel, not running a franchise. Not even close. He didn't have any!

That would be a perfect example of raising a man to his own level of incompetence, then either putting up with it or firing him. aka "The Peter Principle". @broncos_fan _from _ukhas pointed this out in several different occasions in different areas of this team and this would seem to fit the bill.

I don't think that's the case though. Elway was always listed as VP of Football Operations / GM. George was only listed as GM.

Seems to be our MO lately.

Paton, by literally any account, was not an 'awful' hire. He was one of the top candidates, if not THE top candidate the year we made the hire, and for several years before. This amount of revisionist history with Paton is bordering on insanity. The guy has done a TON of what everyone was clamoring for him to do: re-sign more of our homegrown players, draft better, swing for the fences on QB, get the cap in good shape.

The hiring of Hackett has not gone well. So now let's see what he does with it. He has done well in the draft, IMO. He's signed players to fair agreements and kept guys like Sutton, Patrick, and Simmons. I would say his FA performance has been above average. The Russ trade has not gone as expected, but that doesn't necessarily mean the trade was the wrong thing to do. 

[anewdawn]

21 hours ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

Do you trust the Walmarts to make the right GM hire then? Based upon what? By their own admission they’re not football people. Who are their shadow team of advisors? 

Remember it was Ellis and Elway, with input from a few others, who hired George from the 5 GM candidates they interviewed. Say what you want about Elway and Ellis, and I’ve said plenty over the years, but they had football experience, decades of it, and three rings too show for it. The Walmarts have a collective 4 months of football experience. 

Hey AAA, I view this ownership group with a lot of respect in how it is assembled.  I mean Condoliza Rice, like wow what a person to get on board.  And yeah I totally agree with you, they know f all about football but to hire someone who might is pretty damn easy.  I don't proclaim to know who they may seek out as advisors/consultants but how about a past successful gm like Ozzie Newsome?  I have a feeling you would know more candidates than me who could act as consultants or advisors to them and doesn't it make sense that a bunch of yoyo's who appeared to have stumbled right out of the gate would need to seek an advisor or consultant to evaluate wtf has gone wrong.   I mean these yoyos (current ownership) are now the laughing stock of the league and they just don't seem to be the type to want to sit at that thrown.   It seems to me it would only be natural that they no longer trust the stewards of the current bronco regime and as you pointed out not knowing anything about football they have to seek out someone who does!  Regardless this season is  thankfully winding down and I think we will get some answers soon enough..............I think you will see massive changes in Denver and I have no issue with that at all.

[AKRNA]

4 hours ago, broncos67 said:

Paton, by literally any account, was not an 'awful' hire. He was one of the top candidates, if not THE top candidate the year we made the hire, and for several years before. This amount of revisionist history with Paton is bordering on insanity. The guy has done a TON of what everyone was clamoring for him to do: re-sign more of our homegrown players, draft better, swing for the fences on QB, get the cap in good shape.

The hiring of Hackett has not gone well. So now let's see what he does with it. He has done well in the draft, IMO. He's signed players to fair agreements and kept guys like Sutton, Patrick, and Simmons. I would say his FA performance has been above average. The Russ trade has not gone as expected, but that doesn't necessarily mean the trade was the wrong thing to do. 

Reread the posts. Absolutely no revisionist history. I've stated more than once he's the best personnel / draft guy we've ever had. If we fire him we're crazy!

I've also stated he wasn't hired to be the Head of Football Operations. He also was not qualified for that position. Not close. Thats also where he's made his major mistakes. The GM title in Denver has always been limited to personnel. That's from day 1. Only when a person has an additional title (GM/VP or GM/HC) like Gherke, Ralston, etc. do they assume all franchise football control. Xanders was our GM once, Beake was a GM once.

George is our GM.

[broncos67]

Not gonna create a new thread, but my god, the number of Broncos fans angry that we didn't claim Baker Mayfield is objectively hilarious.

[AKRNA]

2 hours ago, anewdawn said:

Hey AAA, I view this ownership group with a lot of respect in how it is assembled.  I mean Condoliza Rice, like wow what a person to get on board.  And yeah I totally agree with you, they know f all about football but to hire someone who might is pretty damn easy.  I don't proclaim to know who they may seek out as advisors/consultants but how about a past successful gm like Ozzie Newsome?  I have a feeling you would know more candidates than me who could act as consultants or advisors to them and doesn't it make sense that a bunch of yoyo's who appeared to have stumbled right out of the gate would need to seek an advisor or consultant to evaluate wtf has gone wrong.   I mean these yoyos (current ownership) are now the laughing stock of the league and they just don't seem to be the type to want to sit at that thrown.   It seems to me it would only be natural that they no longer trust the stewards of the current bronco regime and as you pointed out not knowing anything about football they have to seek out someone who does!  Regardless this season is  thankfully winding down and I think we will get some answers soon enough..............I think you will see massive changes in Denver and I have no issue with that at all.

They might want to talk to Capers, he's right there. The only person in history to coach two starting franchises, the Texans and Panthers. He's also as much an architect of our defensive scheme as Fangio. Holding that defense together is all we've got right now. 

[Broncofan]

41 minutes ago, broncos67 said:

Not gonna create a new thread, but my god, the number of Broncos fans angry that we didn't claim Baker Mayfield is objectively hilarious.

 

TBH, the game last night says a lot more of the Raiders' coaching and their back 7 than it does for Baker.   Great moment for him, though - he'll always have that.

[broncosfan07]

8 hours ago, broncos67 said:

Not gonna create a new thread, but my god, the number of Broncos fans angry that we didn't claim Baker Mayfield is objectively hilarious.

This is why it was nice when Twitter and social media weren’t around. Those morons were around but you didn’t hear from them as much. Will Petersen might be the biggest idiot of them all, there’s hot takes and then there’s just being flat out stupid.

 

Let’s pretend for a second that Baker is remotely good(which he’s not), exactly what does he do for the Broncos? Unless we win 5 straight(LOL) playoffs are unattainable, beating the Chiefs twice when we haven’t beaten them in 7 years seems optimistic.

[broncos67]

9 hours ago, broncosfan07 said:

This is why it was nice when Twitter and social media weren’t around. Those morons were around but you didn’t hear from them as much. Will Petersen might be the biggest idiot of them all, there’s hot takes and then there’s just being flat out stupid.

 

Let’s pretend for a second that Baker is remotely good(which he’s not), exactly what does he do for the Broncos? Unless we win 5 straight(LOL) playoffs are unattainable, beating the Chiefs twice when we haven’t beaten them in 7 years seems optimistic.

Dmac, Joe Rowles, Merilatt are easily the worst for me. Cannot stand any of them. It's insufferable garbage.

[AnAngryAmerican]

6 hours ago, broncos67 said:

Dmac, Joe Rowles, Merilatt are easily the worst for me. Cannot stand any of them. It's insufferable garbage.

They’re all horrific. I don’t know much about Rowles, but Merilatt and DMac are professional trolls whose entire MOs are just to rile people up, they’re local versions of Skip Bayless. 

Stokley and Zach has really been getting on my nerves lately as well. Not sure how much longer I’ll be able to stomach that show. 

[BroncoSojia]

7 hours ago, broncos67 said:

Dmac, Joe Rowles, Merilatt are easily the worst for me. Cannot stand any of them. It's insufferable garbage.

I can't stand Rowles. It's not just that he's negative, he adds being an ******* and condescending to it as well.

[broncos67]

On 12/10/2022 at 3:15 PM, BroncoSojia said:

I can't stand Rowles. It's not just that he's negative, he adds being an ******* and condescending to it as well.

He thinks he's a journalist (and others do too) but he's just some obscure hot take clown who got booted off MHR lol