Time to Fire LaFleur, Gute, and Murphy And Burn The House Down

[vegas492]

Well, I'm back to feeling this way.

I really want a WR, because I love shiny new things.

But...nothing matters until the o-line is fixed.  Tom battled last night, but he also cost us the game.  He does not have the base strength to play guard.  He was owned.

I saw too many pass plays coming open and Rodgers just didn't have the time to throw the ball.  We actually looked like an NFL offense last night.  We just did not have the protection.

I wish it was as easy as putting in Jenkins.  I'm just not sure given how he's played so far this year.  I hope that it is, I'm just not sure.

[AlexGreen#20]

It's time to talk tanking after this loss unfortunately. 

We're averaging 1.53 PPG (good for 27th in the league.)

We're allowing 1.82 PPG (good for 18th in the league.)

As currently performing this is a 7-10 team. Let's say we turn it on and finish 7-2 over our last nine (37-29 opponent record, good luck) and finish 10-7, is anybody actually looking forward to a wild card loss?

+++

QB: Rodgers contract is currently untradeable, but it may seriously be time to thinking about benching him. In an ideal world, he gets pissy enough to rework his contract in order to facilitate a trade. 

RB: I'm on the phone to see if anybody might want Aaron Jones for a draft pick. It's 11 million to trade him, and we can't carry him on the roster with a 20 million dollar cap hit next year. Dillon has to step up and be the guy. 

WR: Not much to really be done here other than to play the rookies. Watkins and Cobb are both FAs after this year. 

TE: I don't know what to make of Tonyan. He's 29 next year. He's a decent resign candidate assuming the money isn't stupid. I wouldn't be surprised to see this one done in the bye week. Time to let Marcedes walk as well and start looking for another 3rd tackle. 

OT: Bakhtiari's contract is untradeable this year. You keep him for next year content in the knowledge you're going to look to trade his *** in the offseason if Nijman is resigned or Tom looks decent. Nijman is an easy tender. 

OG: I don't know what the **** to do about Jenkins. You can't give him an 18+ million contract at this point. I maybe ponder tagging him and letting Jenkins come back next year with some value, but that's a painful one to eat. We need more out of Newman and Runyan.

OC: Myers needs to pick it up. All the talent is there, he just keeps not delivering on it. 

+++

NT: I'd be looking to bring down Clark's snap counts and let the younger bigs eat. Let's save those knees. Slaton should be playing a ton of reps. 

UT: Lowry's snaps need to be dropped by a lot also, Wyatt should be an every down player at this point. 

OLB: Not a ton to do at this spot. Just not much in the way of young talent behind the starters. I probably don't look to trade Preston Smith, but I'm also not hanging up the phone if it rings. 

ILB: Again, nothing to be done here. You're committed to Quay and Campbell with the resources committed to the spot. 

CB: Not a ton of resources to work on the starters who are locked in, and all are relatively young. 

FS: Savage is in town for next year at least. I need to see something from him before we start talking big contracts. 

SS: I don't know if I can give Amos the contract he's going to want considering he's going to be 30 next year. I wouldn't be surprised to see something done in the offseason, but I'm not going to feel good about it. 

K: We should be auditioning kickers every week. I wouldn't be remotely opposed to keeping one on the PS if we think he's the heir apparent. 

P: Keep him, all is good. 

LS: Potentially need to start looking elsewhere. 

 

[AlexGreen#20]

Double post

Edited October 31, 2022 by AlexGreen#20

[vegas492]

Yah, I'm in agreement with the post above.

I dig Aaron Jones, but we could get good value for him.  But he seems to love GB.  It would be hard, but I'd look at dealing him.

We are in a tough spot with Jenkins.

I don't like that we are almost forced to keep Salvage next year.

Safeties play well as they age.  I hope we keep Amos.

[hitnhope]

Not a lot to argue with there.  It shows how bad things really have become with this team.

The one argument I would have is with keeping Savage.   There are better players on the street right now.   He doesn't make plays on the ball and is terrible at tackling.   Addition by subtraction.

[PackFan13]

48 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

It's time to talk tanking after this loss unfortunately. 

We're averaging 1.53 PPG (good for 27th in the league.)

We're allowing 1.82 PPG (good for 18th in the league.)

As currently performing this is a 7-10 team. Let's say we turn it on and finish 7-2 over our last nine (37-29 opponent record, good luck) and finish 10-7, is anybody actually looking forward to a wild card loss?

+++

QB: Rodgers contract is currently untradeable, but it may seriously be time to thinking about benching him. In an ideal world, he gets pissy enough to rework his contract in order to facilitate a trade. 

RB: I'm on the phone to see if anybody might want Aaron Jones for a draft pick. It's 11 million to trade him, and we can't carry him on the roster with a 20 million dollar cap hit next year. Dillon has to step up and be the guy. 

WR: Not much to really be done here other than to play the rookies. Watkins and Cobb are both FAs after this year. 

TE: I don't know what to make of Tonyan. He's 29 next year. He's a decent resign candidate assuming the money isn't stupid. I wouldn't be surprised to see this one done in the bye week. Time to let Marcedes walk as well and start looking for another 3rd tackle. 

OT: Bakhtiari's contract is untradeable this year. You keep him for next year content in the knowledge you're going to look to trade his *** in the offseason if Nijman is resigned or Tom looks decent. Nijman is an easy tender. 

OG: I don't know what the **** to do about Jenkins. You can't give him an 18+ million contract at this point. I maybe ponder tagging him and letting Jenkins come back next year with some value, but that's a painful one to eat. We need more out of Newman and Runyan.

OC: Myers needs to pick it up. All the talent is there, he just keeps not delivering on it. 

+++

NT: I'd be looking to bring down Clark's snap counts and let the younger bigs eat. Let's save those knees. Slaton should be playing a ton of reps. 

UT: Lowry's snaps need to be dropped by a lot also, Wyatt should be an every down player at this point. 

OLB: Not a ton to do at this spot. Just not much in the way of young talent behind the starters. I probably don't look to trade Preston Smith, but I'm also not hanging up the phone if it rings. 

ILB: Again, nothing to be done here. You're committed to Quay and Campbell with the resources committed to the spot. 

CB: Not a ton of resources to work on the starters who are locked in, and all are relatively young. 

FS: Savage is in town for next year at least. I need to see something from him before we start talking big contracts. 

SS: I don't know if I can give Amos the contract he's going to want considering he's going to be 30 next year. I wouldn't be surprised to see something done in the offseason, but I'm not going to feel good about it. 

K: We should be auditioning kickers every week. I wouldn't be remotely opposed to keeping one on the PS if we think he's the heir apparent. 

P: Keep him, all is good. 

LS: Potentially need to start looking elsewhere. 

 

Hell no to tanking. Fire gute this off season for his mediocre job making a competitive roster. Everyone and their mom knew we had nothing at wr and he's done a horrible job since he's been here at fixing it. 

[Toddfather]

I just don't see the Packers selling. They went all in with Aaron and for better or worse are going to keep trying to save this season. 

[Mazrimiv]

The good news is the team doesn't need to try to tank.  I think this 2022 team is tanking whether they want it to or not.

[ThatJerkDave]

4 hours ago, OneTwoSixFive said:

 

Postscript. There are (at least) two levels of 'replacement-level' staff talent, where you might consider a change. The first is when you have average people in some of these positions. I think those we have are generally better than that, but let us assume average for the moment. You only replace a guy if you are CONVINCED the replacement is better than what we have now - firing is easy, getting a good replacement is difficult.

 

A cautionary tale is Nebraska football.  They fired their coach (and I am drawing a blank on which one it was, maybe Bill Callahan or Frank Solich) after going like 10-3 because they considered it their birthright to win the Big 12 and at least play in the Orange bowl every year.  Now they are a 3rd tier big 10 school, hoping that if they can upset Iowa and Penn State, they can get a bowl game after Christmas.

[LLcheesehead12]

14 hours ago, Isherwood said:

I agree that we can do better than Gute when it comes to the draft. I do preemptively caution people in the wild about moving to a new GM if they think we’re going to get a guy that signs a bunch of FAs. I think it is simply “the Packer way” that that doesn’t really happen, and that would have been the case if we hired Eliot Wolf, Alonzo Highsmith, whoever, as GM. 
 

I think that is in the Packers’ DNA and it’s 2-fold: 1. FAs don’t want to come here. Even for Rodgers, despite what he says. They want more money to play in GB, and it takes a perfect storm for us to actually be interested in that. 2. Russ Ball. He’s great at his job and his job is to make the money work with minimal future impact and to be withholding. I absolutely think it’s his job to be the bad cop, when it comes to FAs 

Oh Gute has signed free agents.  Thompson kinda had the knock on him for not doing it, but Gute has.  It's just that his free agent signings have mirrored his draft picks, good for defense and bad for offense.

I mean, Z and P Smith, Amos, Campbell, and **** I'll even give him Breeland a little because he at least attempted at that one to help an injury riddled secondary.  But on offense, it's been Jimmy Graham in his useless stage, Devin Funchess who apparently he was unserious about and who was coming off that injury, and then of course Cobb because Rodgers demanded it, and Watkins who I think hasn't recovered from his injury last year.  In other words, he's given the meat and potatoes to the defense and thrown the scraps to the offense.

[LLcheesehead12]

3 hours ago, ThatJerkDave said:

A cautionary tale is Nebraska football.  They fired their coach (and I am drawing a blank on which one it was, maybe Bill Callahan or Frank Solich) after going like 10-3 because they considered it their birthright to win the Big 12 and at least play in the Orange bowl every year.  Now they are a 3rd tier big 10 school, hoping that if they can upset Iowa and Penn State, they can get a bowl game after Christmas.

It might have actually been Pellini, one could argue he fit that bell

[Arthur Penske]

Yeah. We’re stuck with him for now and probably another year knowing MLF

 

[LLcheesehead12]

2 minutes ago, Arthur Penske said:

Yeah. We’re stuck with him for now and probably another year knowing MLF

 

Well, the problem is if we fired Barry now, the main scheme would still likely be the same, and I doubt the next guy up whether it's Gray or Montgomery is just going to magically fix it, although some may say it's worth a try.  I think the defense's playbook has to be scrapped, and a better run stopping defensive system installed.  That wouldn't happen until after the season though.

[vegas492]

9 minutes ago, LLcheesehead12 said:

Oh Gute has signed free agents.  Thompson kinda had the knock on him for not doing it, but Gute has.  It's just that his free agent signings have mirrored his draft picks, good for defense and bad for offense.

I mean, Z and P Smith, Amos, Campbell, and **** I'll even give him Breeland a little because he at least attempted at that one to help an injury riddled secondary.  But on offense, it's been Jimmy Graham in his useless stage, Devin Funchess who apparently he was unserious about and who was coming off that injury, and then of course Cobb because Rodgers demanded it, and Watkins who I think hasn't recovered from his injury last year.  In other words, he's given the meat and potatoes to the defense and thrown the scraps to the offense.

Just so we are clear...

You are talking about our offense from prior year's, right?

The one with a first ballot HOF QB.  Aaron Jones at RB.  Williams/Dillon behind him.  DA at WR.  MVS at WR.  Emerging Tonyan at TE.  Lewis as the blocking TE (via FA).  Franchise LT before his injury.  All Pro center.  Pro Bowl guard.

Yah ever think that maybe our defense was bad and needed those resources?  And that maybe the offense wasn't?

I can scream all I want about wishing we had a better WR than MVS as a #2....but those guys were costing serious money in FA.  Not a one of the good ones were taking DeVondre Campbell deals.  Or Kirksey deals.

And with a guy like DA in the mix with Aaron Jones and that line, didn't it make sense to grab 2 EDGE guys?  And a safety?

[LLcheesehead12]

1 minute ago, vegas492 said:

Just so we are clear...

You are talking about our offense from prior year's, right?

The one with a first ballot HOF QB.  Aaron Jones at RB.  Williams/Dillon behind him.  DA at WR.  MVS at WR.  Emerging Tonyan at TE.  Lewis as the blocking TE (via FA).  Franchise LT before his injury.  All Pro center.  Pro Bowl guard.

Yah ever think that maybe our defense was bad and needed those resources?  And that maybe the offense wasn't?

I can scream all I want about wishing we had a better WR than MVS as a #2....but those guys were costing serious money in FA.  Not a one of the good ones were taking DeVondre Campbell deals.  Or Kirksey deals.

And with a guy like DA in the mix with Aaron Jones and that line, didn't it make sense to grab 2 EDGE guys?  And a safety?

Yeah and he no contingency plan to replace Adams and wasted two years with Jimmy Graham on this offense when Tonyan was already set to go.  Wolf, Sherman and Thompson were always ready to replace the Sterling Sharpes, the Robert Brooks, the Antonio Freemans, the Javon Walkers, the Donald Drivers and Greg Jennings's.  Gute has drawn up blanks replacing any receivers here and has the lousiest offense building strategy since Lindy Infante.