Big Nasties - IDL Discussion

[Scoundrel]

1 hour ago, Ozzy said:

unless one wants to play the game of pretending a 3/4 DE does not have a rusher on both sides of him. Or pretend that ZaDarius Smith and others are 3/4 DEs

This is cute

[Ozzy]

3 minutes ago, jebrick said:

What the Steelers look for in drafting their DE is at least 6'5 and 300lbs.  Can they take a 6'5 275 player with a great motor?  Yes.  Done it before and will do it again.

 

Given that Breese, Dexter, Murphy( if he gains weight), Wilson ( weight), Wooden and Tuipulotu mostly fit the bill.  i am sure there are others but I am too lazy this morning to look them up.

 

I am just tossing this out there as info for the grist mill.  The Steelers rarely play a straight 3-4 defense anymore.  It is generally a hybrid with 2 DTs playing 2 gap( formally DEs) and 2 OLB.  I would rather see them go to the old NE style or Baltimore style of hybrid that has a pass rusher and some heavies in the middle but...

 

 

To me Tuli Tuipulotu is a 3/4 OLB all the way even if he is 6-4 290, he has top level quickness off the edge and great conditioning, very active and can get around tackles easily.  Sure it is kind of rare having a 3/4 OLB that heavy but Tuli could pull it off and regardless should be on the edge creating havoc but could play in a 4/3 also.  Jalen Carter would be a good fit for the Steelers but is a DE or NT type in that defense and depending on where they end up in the draft they could be choosing one of those two players and could be well off with either one.

 

Tuli is so quick off the edge, can get the tackles hands down so quickly and just is hell to deal with.  I would be shocked if he is not a top 5 pick or at worst top 10.   Extremely rare burst and quickness for a guy that size, shocking he can move that well being 290.

 

  

[Scoundrel]

1 hour ago, Ozzy said:

Right now I would have him top 5, 10 at worst, no way he falls to 15.  Currently have the Steelers getting him and they could possibly even pass on Jalen Carter to do it because Tuli can be a edge rusher and Carter cannot, they need another edge guy because are clearly a totally different team without TJ Watt out there.

 

Agreed Tuli is an amazing player, no EDGE defender is playing better than him right now and I still say putting him as a 3/4 DE is a total waste of time, he is a edge player all the way be it in a 3/4 OLB or a 4/3 DE.  Way too athletically gifted to put inside unless one wants to play the game of pretending a 3/4 DE does not have a rusher on both sides of him. Or pretend that ZaDarius Smith and others are 3/4 DEs because they play it on a passing situations from time to time, they are edge guys that are moved around like all great edge defenders, does not mean they are interior DL. 

 

You group all those positions under DI?  Do what you want man, to me that just seems odd.  How is 'edge' not a 3/4 OLB?   You mean 3/4 DE?  Even that, come on a 3/4 OLB is basically a DE in a 4/3 that might be a little smaller and more athletic but still almost any 4/3 DE could play a 3/4 OLB, sure some might not be as good like Danielle Hunter is now but he is getting a hang of it of late after a slow start.  Is a bit different in terms of what they are asked but an edge guy is an edge guy.  You are outside and have no one rushing to the left or to the right of you depending on the side.  The rest is all just semantics.

He’s clearly saying that edge is 3/4 OLB and 4/3 end. 

[Scoundrel]

8 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

To me Tuli Tuipulotu is a 3/4 OLB all the way even if he is 6-4 290, he has top level quickness off the edge and great conditioning, very active and can get around tackles easily.  Sure it is kind of rare having a 3/4 OLB that heavy but Tuli could pull it off and regardless should be on the edge creating havoc but could play in a 4/3 also.  Jalen Carter would be a good fit for the Steelers but is a DE or NT type in that defense and depending on where they end up in the draft they could be choosing one of those two players and could be well off with either one.

 

Tuli is so quick off the edge, can get the tackles hands down so quickly and just is hell to deal with.  I would be shocked if he is not a top 5 pick or at worst top 10.   Extremely rare burst and quickness for a guy that size, shocking he can move that well being 290.

 

  

First time I’ve ever seen you mention Tuli in this capacity. I’ll pat myself on the back on this one 

[Ragnarok]

1 hour ago, Ozzy said:

You group all those positions under DI?  Do what you want man, to me that just seems odd.  How is 'edge' not a 3/4 OLB?   You mean 3/4 DE?  Even that, come on a 3/4 OLB is basically a DE in a 4/3 that might be a little smaller and more athletic but still almost any 4/3 DE could play a 3/4 OLB, sure some might not be as good like Danielle Hunter is now but he is getting a hang of it of late after a slow start.  Is a bit different in terms of what they are asked but an edge guy is an edge guy.  You are outside and have no one rushing to the left or to the right of you depending on the side.  The rest is all just semantics.

What?  No.  I was saying I do a bigboard the same way Scoundrel does.

I have an ED group.  Within that is 3-4 OLB and 4-3 DE.

I have a DI group.  Within that is 1T, 3T, 5T.

And obviously within that is guys who are scheme versatile.

[jebrick]

19 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

To me Tuli Tuipulotu is a 3/4 OLB all the way even if he is 6-4 290, he has top level quickness off the edge and great conditioning, very active and can get around tackles easily.  Sure it is kind of rare having a 3/4 OLB that heavy but Tuli could pull it off and regardless should be on the edge creating havoc but could play in a 4/3 also.  Jalen Carter would be a good fit for the Steelers but is a DE or NT type in that defense and depending on where they end up in the draft they could be choosing one of those two players and could be well off with either one.

He looks great.  The Steelers would misuse him as a 2 gap DT.  As I said, they need to change their defense.

[Ozzy]

15 minutes ago, Scoundrel said:

First time I’ve ever seen you mention Tuli in this capacity. I’ll pat myself on the back on this one 

Or pat on the back the individuals you clearly follow on social media.  ;o)

I noticed him against Washington State earlier in the year, hard not to and most did who see the game.  But honestly I have not watched a full USC game this year, easy to forget about the Pac-12 now a days, little bits, he stood out clearly against Washington State but I needed another chance to see him because maybe Washington State just had a bad OL.  Got that chance last night and will be watching USC more often with an elite level player like that on D.  The guy currently leads the nation in sacks so hard not to notice him, especially when Will Anderson Jr is not playing as dominating of football as he did last year, same with Andre Carter, yeah Tuli is on the rise and playing better than any edge player in the nation.  

Sure I should have mentioned him after that Washington State performance but it has been so long since USC had a elite level edge guy like this, easy to forget about watching them to be honest.  The guy is a force though and his stock is skyrocketing.  

[Scoundrel]

2 minutes ago, Ragnarok said:

What?  No.  I was saying I do a bigboard the same way Scoundrel does.

I have an ED group.  Within that is 3-4 OLB and 4-3 DE.

I have a DI group.  Within that is 1T, 3T, 5T.

And obviously within that is guys who are scheme versatile.

This is exactly how I do mine. Not quite to the 7T/9T that RedGold does. Also I want to add we can’t control what NFL teams do with players and how they use them in scheme. Just because Tuli is my number 2 IDL doesn’t mean I don’t think he can or would be better on the edge. I just think that highly of his skill set and him as a player that he could have success there. Also if a 3/4 team looking for a 5T decides they want to pick him and play him there before a team that would use him at edge does we can’t control that. 

[Scoundrel]

16 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Or pat on the back the individuals you clearly follow on social media.  ;o

I don’t follow anyone on social media. I live in LA bud. He was top 20 on my BB early in this season and has just ascended. He was a disruptive player last year as well but I don’t make a big board with sophomores on it until start of their eligible for the draft season. He is also Hufanga’s cousin who I have in my dynasty league so I have followed him closely. Not sure why you assume I couldn’t have watched him myself and scouted with my own eyes? I know you act like this is your forum sometimes and belittle others opinions often if they differ from yours but you aren’t the only one scouting players. I have to follow people on social media but you scout and formulate your own opinions? Get out of here with that nonsense. I’ve been doing this for 21 years. 

[Ragnarok]

30 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

To me Tuli Tuipulotu is a 3/4 OLB all the way even if he is 6-4 290, he has top level quickness off the edge and great conditioning, very active and can get around tackles easily.  Sure it is kind of rare having a 3/4 OLB that heavy but Tuli could pull it off and regardless should be on the edge creating havoc but could play in a 4/3 also.  Jalen Carter would be a good fit for the Steelers but is a DE or NT type in that defense and depending on where they end up in the draft they could be choosing one of those two players and could be well off with either one.

 

Tuli is so quick off the edge, can get the tackles hands down so quickly and just is hell to deal with.  I would be shocked if he is not a top 5 pick or at worst top 10.   Extremely rare burst and quickness for a guy that size, shocking he can move that well being 290.

No way.  Biggest guy at that position i can remember is Adalius Thomas and he was 275 or so.  

To expand on this, I think the best way to use a guy like this is in a one-gap system and move him up and down the line the way teams do Donald or Watt or Quinnen.  

[Scoundrel]

23 hours ago, Scoundrel said:

And Tuli should be in the top 15 prospect discussion by the end of this season. Watch him tonight if you can against Colorado.

Does this count as social media? Regardless thanks for following me @Ozzy

[Ozzy]

6 minutes ago, Scoundrel said:

I don’t follow anyone on social media. I live in LA bud. He was top 20 on my BB early in this season and has just ascended. Not sure why you assume I couldn’t have watched him myself and scouted with my own eyes? I know you act like this is your forum sometimes and belittle others opinions often if they differ from yours but you aren’t the only one scouting players. I have to follow people on social media but you scout and formulate your own opinions? Get out of here with that nonsense. I’ve been doing this for 21 years. 

Good for you, I would have no idea you actually scout players or have been doing this for a long time based on what you post about.  Sure people do it loosely and watch the good players but there is a difference between that and watching them all.  Honestly all you talked about take last year were Georgia players it seemed and DL play which I guess makes sense maybe that is your strong area.  Then you provide a link to a social media account saying Tuli had a great game just a bit ago, so yeah then I assume you are on social media and read what others say, easy assumption to make because many do exactly that but I guess it was wrong. 

 

Honestly you provide so little information and this top 20 list, where was that?  Where are these lists you have?  Easy to talk rather than actual show things, then have people like yourself nit pick what is shown but provide nothing yourself in terms of similar product.  If you live in LA then not sure you found him then, you just watch the local team which is actual good for once after a few years of pretty average play.

 

Great you actually do this but where are these lists, where are these rankings where are these comments you made over the years?  If you liked Tuli so much you should have said he was a top 15 pick before the year started and said that last January.  I guess I do not seek out information you provide that could be the issue I guess.  But yes sorry I get a bit defensive when I actually provide an insane amount of information and for what, take that out and there is so little info on here outside of a random comment or two.  Then someone like you to rip on it and talking about freaking interior DL and what a 5 technique is?  No thanks it gets a little annoying.  And again based on what I have read from you over the years nothing from it would speak to you have been doing this a long time or have these lists of prospects outside of just a few positions you like to watch because I have never seen them.

 

Guess I was mistaken and your depth of knowledge is more than just DL.  Maybe provide it sometime, but maybe not because it is a lot of work and for what exactly.  Maybe I should get into your boat and do what you do, provide little bits, would save a lot of time.  

[Scoundrel]

43 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Good for you, I would have no idea you actually scout players or have been doing this for a long time based on what you post about.  Sure people do it loosely and watch the good players but there is a difference between that and watching them all.  Honestly all you talked about take last year were Georgia players it seemed and DL play which I guess makes sense maybe that is your strong area.  Then you provide a link to a social media account saying Tuli had a great game just a bit ago, so yeah then I assume you are on social media and read what others say, easy assumption to make because many do exactly that but I guess it was wrong. 

 

Honestly you provide so little information and this top 20 list, where was that?  Where are these lists you have?  Easy to talk rather than actual show things, then have people like yourself nit pick what is shown but provide nothing yourself in terms of similar product.  If you live in LA then not sure you found him then, you just watch the local team which is actual good for once after a few years of pretty average play.

 

Great you actually do this but where are these lists, where are these rankings where are these comments you made over the years?  If you liked Tuli so much you should have said he was a top 15 pick before the year started and said that last January.  I guess I do not seek out information you provide that could be the issue I guess.  But yes sorry I get a bit defensive when I actually provide an insane amount of information and for what, take that out and there is so little info on here outside of a random comment or two.  Then someone like you to rip on it and talking about freaking interior DL and what a 5 technique is?  No thanks it gets a little annoying.  And again based on what I have read from you over the years nothing from it would speak to you have been doing this a long time or have these lists of prospects outside of just a few positions you like to watch because I have never seen them.

 

Guess I was mistaken and your depth of knowledge is more than just DL.  Maybe provide it sometime, but maybe not because it is a lot of work and for what exactly.  Maybe I should get into your boat and do what you do, provide little bits, would save a lot of time.  

Well first I am a Georgia fan so there’s that. I am also in a dynasty league on this site. So I don’t usually share my big boards or rankings as I don’t want to tip off where I have players ranked. @Ragnarok and @RedGold are in this league with me. And about why I didn’t post a big board or top 15 in January? I don’t start my actual ranking in a Big Board until the start of the college football season and only rank those eligible for the corresponding draft. There is a post on 10/8 of me talking about him. No I don’t say top 15 there as I didn’t want to tip my ranking to my fellow league members. But I don’t think the timing of when I said top 15 really matters. I said it last night because I felt it’s just a matter of time before he rises in the media and then I can’t hide how highly I have him ranked anymore. I would love for you to find me a big board/mock/ranking anywhere that has Tuli as a top 15 player before last night though. I literally posted 23 hours ago that he was. So regardless if you believe me about big boards that proof is there. But I’m following social media? Also I just typed Tuli into the search bar in twitter to show a tweet about how he was performing as I told everyone who would listen to watch him last night well before the game started, because around here people believe twitter links as evidence more than just posting often times. I don’t have the time to post what you do or I should say I prioritize it more in our dynasty league. Doesn’t mean I don’t scout quite a bit on my own. Yes I live in LA and I hate USC. Just cus I’m from here means I couldn’t have found Tuli? Lol that’s an absurd take. Where do you live? You can’t find anyone there cus that’s just the game that was on? We watch games to watch players how else do we see who stands out? Man anything to knock down someone who was higher on a player before you. It’s okay if you aren’t first all the time Ozzy. You put out good content. And the part that you say is annoying about 5T? This ain’t your forum. I didn’t quote you. You started what you say is “annoying” I wasn’t addressing you my list was not directed at you. So you only have yourself to blame for that conversation if you find it annoying. I will also add I don’t post that much in here because I see the way you talk to people with differing opinions than you. I am not interested in that. And look where we are currently. This is the last time I’ll address this with you. Have a good day watching some good football bud.

[Scoundrel]

On 10/8/2022 at 8:55 PM, Scoundrel said:

No week 6 thread but Tuli Tuipulotu has 7 sacks on the season now. Had 7.5 TFL and 5.5 sacks last season as a sophomore. 6’4 290 nice size for 5 Tech or 3 Tech. He plays with a great motor and intensity. Brother Marlon is on the Eagles. Exciting prospect imo.

Here’s the post. No ranking mentioned (for a reason) but my adoration is clear. I won’t bring this up anymore. Anyway good day to this forum and enjoy some good college football. 

[Jeezla]

Anyone watched Karl Brooks out of Bowling Green? 8 sacks and 13 TFL, but playing against bums. 6'4" 300 lbs, but lines up at DE. Looks fairly athletic. 5th year Sr.

 

Edited November 12, 2022 by Jeezla