WEEK 13: Bronco's @ Ravens

[Zukhyubern]

55 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

I watched the whole damn game and the team as a whole looked better they just can't close. and there's some crazy stat that if this team could put up 17 points every week we'd be 11 and 1. Terrible. 

I also watched this game and will continue to put myself through punishment.. 

offense was anemic but we did generate a few big plays which was nice. 
 

as good as this D obviously is they really blew it that last drive with the two penalties and not stopping them on 4th and 1 ON THEIR OWN 20! 
 

All considered I won’t hold it against them but really made todays loss all the more brutal. 
 

let’s face it, the Broncos now have a losing culture. Some huge things need to change before this becomes the norm for decades..

[lomaxgrUK]

I caught the game, mostly without commentary as i was watching England win their WC knockout game. 

Played to lose and lost. Defense was excellent until the one drive we actually needed them to be. 

Laughing stock of the league. 

[French Fan]

10 hours ago, The Helicopter said:

I’m trending to holding Hackett in a higher regard than Wilson lately, but it’s a bit off a toss up. Given Wilson’s contract I tend to agree that he’s performing worse than Hackett. Paton’s pause at firing Hackett makes me wonder about his next move(s) as GM. Why not keep them both for one more year…worst case scenario we get a very high draft pick and go QB. That seems like a quicker way out of this mess if it continues. 

In 2024 Caleb Williams from USC is considered a generational talent. But from a rather reliable source (Sean Payton) the order of the draft will be determined in the same way as in the NBA. Even being bad nothing will guarantee a TOP 3 in the future.

[broncos67]

Trash team gets trash results. I streamed the game but wouldn't say I was overly engaged. Just not fun watching this team anymore. I've pivoted most of my attention to college basketball. At least Maryland isn't a dumpster fire.

Season can't end soon enough. Jimmy G getting hurt means there's at least a chance that draft pick ends up better than expected.

[Broncofan]

15 hours ago, thebestever6 said:

I watched the whole damn game and the team as a whole looked better they just can't close. and there's some crazy stat that if this team could put up 17 points every week we'd be 11 and 1. Terrible. 

 

14 hours ago, Zukhyubern said:

I also watched this game and will continue to put myself through punishment.. 

offense was anemic but we did generate a few big plays which was nice. 
 

as good as this D obviously is they really blew it that last drive with the two penalties and not stopping them on 4th and 1 ON THEIR OWN 20! 
 

All considered I won’t hold it against them but really made todays loss all the more brutal. 
 

let’s face it, the Broncos now have a losing culture. Some huge things need to change before this becomes the norm for decades..

 

12 hours ago, lomaxgrUK said:

I caught the game, mostly without commentary as i was watching England win their WC knockout game. 

Played to lose and lost. Defense was excellent until the one drive we actually needed them to be. 

Laughing stock of the league. 

The stat is if we put up 18 pts in regulation, we'd be 11-1, and if we did it by OT, we'd still be 9-3.     Still, that's moot.

I only watched the replay last night after the DAL-IND game got out of hand, I won't add much more, other than to add this:

-Hackett completely turtled up yesterday.   Biggest 3rd-down play to seal the game - and he takes out Hinton, Jeudy AND Dulcich.    3rd and 5 in the RZ - they RUN the ball (Kubiak calls the play, Hackett has input on run vs. pass).  4th and half a yard inside the 2-min warning?   FG.      With Lamar Jackson out, Hackett played "don't lose" football...which is EXACTLY how you lose.   It's so clear he's lost whatever nerve he had before.   

-Sutton's injury was unfortunate - because Jeudy was clearly still coming back from his ankle injury, and played 20 snaps.   Dulcich showed exactly what we could do with him integrated into the game.   Given Roquan Smith was playing and Sutton was out, this was a damn impressive game by Dulcich.   Jeudy going 4/60 on 20 snaps actually showed heart that ppl question him for.     Sadly, Sutton looks to be gone for 3+ games, if it's a bad hamstring strain.

-Wilson had better pocket movement - but he keeps falling short just when you want to see the O pick up rhythm.     

-That brings up the training staff issue - again, you can't do much about knee injuries/fractures/concussions/HAS injuries - those are impact injuries.   But soft tissue injuries are ALL about flexibility & stretching.     IIRC Sutton's never hurt his hammy before - but that's a problem for the ROS (what little there is).  The sheer number of soft tissue injuries, that's very much a big part on the training staff.    

-Finally, Waitman was brutal yesterday.    Is it too much to ask for even decent special teams?

What's so excruciating - seeing ZERO change.   I don't know how Paton & the FO don't see how much the culture sucks right now.   It's don't-lose, play-scared.    I get the 2023 fix isn't likely on the coaching roster - but you can definitely send the D a message that enough is enough.    Fire Hackett, and tell Kubiak / Outton you have 5 games to get **** done.    If nothing else, it's a 2023 audition for other teams as OC (Outton has no shot, more Kubiak).      And again, if ppl think Wilson's the sole problem - he's a big Hackett backer.   I totally disagree it's Wilson alone (because Hackett is that bad, as well as the OL) - but firing Hackett now also sends Russ the message there are no other excuses going forward - look in the mirror.    Again, as we were willing to fire Hackett after the JAX game - the perception of impatience won't go away.    

Honestly, we would have been better off losing the UK game.  I'm firmly convinced we'd have won 2 of the last 4 games going back (yesterday for sure), but we'd have had Hackett gone, and a different attitude.   At this point, keeping Hackett just sends the message the org tolerates incompetence (Wilson's contract gives no outs - Hackett has clear outs).    If you want to attract players or good HC candidates, look like you have a clue.    Keeping Hackett each week sends the exact opposite message.  /end rant.

One final silver lining note - not watching the game live has done wonders for my blood pressure on Sundays lol.

 

 

Edited December 5, 2022 by Broncofan

[jolly red giant]

16 hours ago, The Helicopter said:

I’m trending to holding Hackett in a higher regard than Wilson lately, but it’s a bit off a toss up. Given Wilson’s contract I tend to agree that he’s performing worse than Hackett. Paton’s pause at firing Hackett makes me wonder about his next move(s) as GM. Why not keep them both for one more year…worst case scenario we get a very high draft pick and go QB. That seems like a quicker way out of this mess if it continues. 

The problem is we don't - Seattle get the high draft pick - just like this year.

It would be bonkers to keep Hackett - the guy has to go and sooner rather than later.

Zuk that said the team has a losing culture - and that comes from the HC. The play that demonstrated this for me yesterday was the decision by Hackett to kick the FG at the end of the first half on 4th and half a yard. They should have gone for it because it would send a message - instead he kicked the FG and played the rest of the game trying not to lose.

Hackett has to go - the happy clappy best buddy approach has been a disaster. It doesn't make a blind bit of difference whether he has lost the locker room or not - he can't and won't get the job done.

This is not to absolve Wilson - but it is clear that Carroll did a massive job covering up his deficiencies. It looks like the guy doesn't have the brains of a top notch QB - so all the smart play design won't work if Wilson doesn't understand where he is supposed to go and what he is supposed to do.  The offensive scheme needs to use the plays that Wilson used in Seattle so that he doesn't have to think about what to do.

Either way - we are stuck with Wilson - so we have to see if another coach can get him to a top ten level because Hackett can't get him off the basement. If a new coach can't fix the problem next season then cut Wilson - eat the $85million cap hit which will tank the season, result in a high draft pick and then start the rebuild (again).

[Broncofan]

19 minutes ago, jolly red giant said:

The problem is we don't - Seattle get the high draft pick - just like this year.

It would be bonkers to keep Hackett - the guy has to go and sooner rather than later.

Zuk that said the team has a losing culture - and that comes from the HC. The play that demonstrated this for me yesterday was the decision by Hackett to kick the FG at the end of the first half on 4th and half a yard. They should have gone for it because it would send a message - instead he kicked the FG and played the rest of the game trying not to lose.

Hackett has to go - the happy clappy best buddy approach has been a disaster. It doesn't make a blind bit of difference whether he has lost the locker room or not - he can't and won't get the job done.

This is not to absolve Wilson - but it is clear that Carroll did a massive job covering up his deficiencies. It looks like the guy doesn't have the brains of a top notch QB - so all the smart play design won't work if Wilson doesn't understand where he is supposed to go and what he is supposed to do.  The offensive scheme needs to use the plays that Wilson used in Seattle so that he doesn't have to think about what to do.

Either way - we are stuck with Wilson - so we have to see if another coach can get him to a top ten level because Hackett can't get him off the basement. If a new coach can't fix the problem next season then cut Wilson - eat the $85million cap hit which will tank the season, result in a high draft pick and then start the rebuild (again).

To me, this says EVERYTHING about Hackett.   We're 3-8, on the road.   We have 4th and half a yard.   We haven't scored TD's.   This is a chance to say "we're going to WIN this game"....instead, he plays scared and says "let's get a FG".

3rd and 5 on the first drive inside the RZ - we RUN THE BALL.   On a 1H where Russ was 10-12 for 110.      On 3rd down late in the game where a 1st down wins the game - he has a lineup without Dulcich, Jeudy & Hinton on the field.   WHAT THE F. 

It's such a losing message Hackett's sending the team, the fanbase, the league.    It's excruciating how fear of "scaring off good HC's" is over-ruling what's obvious to everyone.   And again, with the org ready to fire Hackett after the UK game - you've bought the perception regardless. SMH. 

Edited December 5, 2022 by Broncofan

[AKRNA]

48 minutes ago, jolly red giant said:

 

Either way - we are stuck with Wilson - so we have to see if another coach can get him to a top ten level because Hackett can't get him off the basement. If a new coach can't fix the problem next season then cut Wilson - eat the $85million cap hit which will tank the season, result in a high draft pick and then start the rebuild (again).

We're stuck with him on the roster, not as a starter. 

We're in audition time now. I'd pull him and let Rypien start with Kubiak. He's at least smart enough to understand the offense and execute it. 

[AKRNA]

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Edited December 5, 2022 by AKRNA

[Broncofan]

22 minutes ago, AKRNA said:

We're stuck with him on the roster, not as a starter. 

We're in audition time now. I'd pull him and let Rypien start with Kubiak. He's at least smart enough to understand the offense and execute it. 

Ehh, we know Rypien's not the answer - doesn't have the toolset (and not enough intangibles to overcome the lack of tools, they have to be special).    Regardless, there's zero chance that happens with the current coaching staff, barring injury.

I don't have a problem with us spending a Day 3 pick next year, and grooming a plan B.    Even with a new HC and scheme that can look to fix Wilson, that's the smart play (sadly not Rd2 Hurts - ppl forget PHI had 7 picks in the first 3 rounds that year, so they could spend a luxury pick while Wentz was starting to show warts).   Look to find your Dak / Cousins in Rd4+, where our draft stock helps.    Hendon Hooker off ACL surgery, and not ready to play until mid-fall?   Day 3.....intriguing.    Or others, same idea.

Edited December 5, 2022 by Broncofan

[AKRNA]

59 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

Ehh, we know Rypien's not the answer - doesn't have the toolset (and not enough intangibles to overcome the lack of tools, they have to be special).    Regardless, there's zero chance that happens with the current coaching staff, barring injury.

I don't have a problem with us spending a Day 3 pick next year, and grooming a plan B.    Even with a new HC and scheme that can look to fix Wilson, that's the smart play (sadly not Rd2 Hurts - ppl forget PHI had 7 picks in the first 3 rounds that year, so they could spend a luxury pick while Wentz was starting to show warts).   Look to find your Dak / Cousins in Rd4+, where our draft stock helps.    Hendon Hooker off ACL surgery, and not ready to play until mid-fall?   Day 3.....intriguing.    Or others, same idea.

Maybe not a long term answer but in his one start he racked up more first downs than Russ in any start.

I'm just looking for some kind of spark. What we're watching now is intolerable.

[Broncofan]

Just now, AKRNA said:

Maybe not a long term answer but in his one start he racked up more first downs than Russ in any start.

I'm just looking for some kind of spark. What we're watching now is intolerable.

Try watching it recorded.   Can FF and also more acceptable to drink heavily at night.  

[AKRNA]

8 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

Try watching it recorded.   Can FF and also more acceptable to drink heavily at night.  

Thats the only way I can watch it. Makes me yearn for the days of Pat Shurmer and Drew Lock.

[The Helicopter]

2 hours ago, AKRNA said:

We're stuck with him on the roster, not as a starter. 

We're in audition time now. I'd pull him and let Rypien start with Kubiak. He's at least smart enough to understand the offense and execute it. 

Is Baker Mayfield an improvement?

[The Helicopter]

3 hours ago, jolly red giant said:

The problem is we don't - Seattle get the high draft pick - just like this year.

It would be bonkers to keep Hackett - the guy has to go and sooner rather than later.

Zuk that said the team has a losing culture - and that comes from the HC. The play that demonstrated this for me yesterday was the decision by Hackett to kick the FG at the end of the first half on 4th and half a yard. They should have gone for it because it would send a message - instead he kicked the FG and played the rest of the game trying not to lose.

Hackett has to go - the happy clappy best buddy approach has been a disaster. It doesn't make a blind bit of difference whether he has lost the locker room or not - he can't and won't get the job done.

This is not to absolve Wilson - but it is clear that Carroll did a massive job covering up his deficiencies. It looks like the guy doesn't have the brains of a top notch QB - so all the smart play design won't work if Wilson doesn't understand where he is supposed to go and what he is supposed to do.  The offensive scheme needs to use the plays that Wilson used in Seattle so that he doesn't have to think about what to do.

Either way - we are stuck with Wilson - so we have to see if another coach can get him to a top ten level because Hackett can't get him off the basement. If a new coach can't fix the problem next season then cut Wilson - eat the $85million cap hit which will tank the season, result in a high draft pick and then start the rebuild (again).

If Seattle got our R1 pick this last draft and the next one, that wraps up the deal, no? My point was if we roll into next year unchanged and suck again, the following draft we'll have our own R1 selection...right? That's the only way I see out of this nonsense. Suck hard 1 more year for massive change.