Head coaching candidates thread

[BroncoBruin]

This Broncos team needs to toughen up but I think someone like Flores represents an extreme end of that spectrum I would pass on. I don’t think you want your players to be miserable at work. This is why there was no way they could bring Fangio back for a fourth year, the locker room was just done with him.  

Predictably they went to the other extreme with Hackett, a coach who would openly talk about being close friends with NFL players. There is a perfect middle ground here, and it’s one of the Harbaughs, Payton or Tomlin. Mike Tomlin will coach in Pittsburgh for another decade and I don’t see the Ravens letting go of John Harbaugh any time soon. Very possible Jim Harbaugh peaks at Michigan this year regardless of their finish, so what would it take financially to make Jim interested in this mess? This is a 70+ billion dollar ownership group and there are no salary caps for coaching staffs. Here’s a real opportunity for them to flex their muscles and improve the situation by being richer than anyone else. I’m prepared to be disappointed but it seems to be the only card we have to play right now. 

Edited December 27, 2022 by BroncoBruin

[AnAngryAmerican]

This should make Patriot Way apologist @Broncofan happy, one book has the odds of Brian Flores getting the Broncos HC job at a respectable 18-1.

https://steelersnow.com/pittsburgh-steelers-brian-flores-denver-broncos-head-coach/
 

[Broncofan]

4 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

This should make Patriot Way apologist @Broncofan happy, one book has the odds of Brian Flores getting the Broncos HC job at a respectable 18-1.

https://steelersnow.com/pittsburgh-steelers-brian-flores-denver-broncos-head-coach/
 

Yes, saying there are exceptions to the BB rule like Daboll makes me a Patriots way apologist.  🙄    Man, I'm sorry whoever p***ed in your corn flakes this week.

Edited December 28, 2022 by Broncofan

[Broncofan]

10 minutes ago, BroncoBruin said:

This Broncos team needs to toughen up but I think someone like Flores represents an extreme end of that spectrum I would pass on. I don’t think you want your players to be miserable at work. This is why there was no way they could bring Fangio back for a fourth year, the locker room was just done with him.  

Predictably they went to the other extreme with Hackett, a coach who would openly talk about being close friends with NFL players. There is a perfect middle ground here, and it’s one of the Harbaughs, Payton or Tomlin. Mike Tomlin will coach in Pittsburgh for another decade and I don’t see the Ravens letting go of John Harbaugh any time soon. Very possible Jim Harbaugh peaks at Michigan this year regardless of their finish, so what would it take financially to make Jim interested in this mess? This is a 70+ billion dollar ownership group and there are no salary caps for coaching staffs. Here’s a real opportunity for them to flex their muscles and improve the situation by being richer than anyone else. I’m prepared to be disappointed but it seems to be the only card we have to play right now. 

Harbaugh is the ideal given our situation (can't get the best O minds, not many around, and frankly, not worth going all-in on Russ fix), FWIW.   If that's not too Harbaugh-apologist for AAA.

Edited December 28, 2022 by Broncofan

[grizmo78]

13 minutes ago, paul-mac said:

Rivera and Bowles both have an excellent chance to be coaching playoff football this January. We will be on our 4th head coach since we last played a playoff game next year. Smith I’ll give you but I’d argue he was handed the worst roster in the NFL and did about as well as he could with it.

 

Look at the job Flores did in Miami to set up the current tenure with McDaniel. Or even look at the job John Fox did with us a decade ago. Or what Dan Campbell is doing with the Lions now or Doug Pederson down in Jacksonville. Sometimes the culture of a franchise is completely broken and you need to just bring in a no nonsense guy to sort the culture out and return you to a place of respect before you hire the next guy to put you over the hump.

 

I think hot coordinators are great at taking an average team and making them into a contender, but much less successful at improving the fortunes of a dumpster fire. Unfortunately, we have become that dumpster fire. It follows that we need that no nonsense guy to get us winning some football games again and then maybe in a few years we look at the hot coordinator. 

Thanks for clarifying, I can appreciate that approach given the additional context. 

I'm hopeful we acknowledge our current situation, find the best potential coach, and be patient in growing with him the way @broncos67 described. 

I also want to distinguish the difference between a first time head coach and a "hot coordinator". There are plenty of candidates with no HC experience but have had sustained success across either multiple teams or multiple seasons that I would not consider a "hot coordinator". A "hot coordinator" is someone with a small sample size of success like a Ben Johnson (lions offensive coordinator) or Shane Waldon (Seahawks offensive coordinator). 

I agree with @AnAngryAmerican in that there is a difference between successful vs unsuccessful first time coaches. I'm hopeful that the three I highlighted would be in the successful camp obviously as I see them having had sustained success that I outlined in the previous paragraph. 

[paul-mac]

Harbaugh won’t touch it with a barge pole because he’s going to want full control if he returns to the NFL. I don’t think he would accept working with George Paton or any other GM with a lot of influence. He ran Trent Baalke out of town in SF and it ultimately is a big reason why he ended up walking away himself.

 

Payton is a bit intriguing because I think, had LAC missed the playoffs, it’s a slam dunk he ends up there. But now that Staley has taken them into the playoffs, I think he gets a 3rd year. Another likely destination would have been the Dallas Cowboys, but they’ve also had a good year so it’s not likely that they’ll fire their guy McCarthy. Rams could be in play if McVay walks away, but I wouldn’t be shocked if he also waits one more year. There’s a lot of reasons to think Payton night wait another year but if he’s desperate to get back, there might not be that many other teams looking for a HC. Ultimately the reason I don’t see him in Denver is because of our lack of draft capital (also an issue for the Rams). Jon Gruden was the last HC to be traded and it took two 1sts and two 2nds. There’s no way the broncos can afford to make another blockbuster trade like that after the Wilson deal.

 

I honestly think there’s a > 50% chance it’s Dan Quinn. I know there are some who think he would baulk at the Denver job after we passed him up for Hackett, but let’s be honest here. There are going to be 5 or 6 vacancies max this year. Shane Steichen and DeMeco Ryans are a shoe in to get one of them each. That leaves only maybe three vacancies to be shared between Frank Reich, Kellen Moore, Jerod Mayo, Jonathan Gannon, our guy Ejiro Evero, Jim Harbaugh, Leslie Frazier, Raheem Morris, Ben Johnson, Ken Dorsey and Eric Bieniemy. There are going to be a LOT of disappointed guys who felt this was their year. So I don’t think Quinn is exactly going to be inundated with offers.

 

Quinn with Schottenheimer as his OC makes too much sense. They work together in Dallas atm and both were in Seattle with Wilson (albeit Quinn was the DC, but I’m sure they have some form of relationship). Schottenheimer got his best years out of him. We would of course love to retain Evero as DC, but if he gets a HC job or goes elsewhere as DC then Quinn could bring in one of his own guys. 

[AKRNA]

2 hours ago, paul-mac said:

We are about to embark on our 7th head coaching search in 14 years. The 14 years before that, we literally had one head coach the entire time. That’s completely unsustainable. It’s absolutely imperative that the next head coach is around for more than a year or two. 
 

George Paton has four years left on his contract. I think we give the new guy a four year deal and attach them at the hip. 
 

2023 and 2024 can be used to try and salvage Wilson. Either by fixing him from the ground up, or just trying to build an elite defense and run game and have him be a game manager type QB. 
 

2025 we can easily move on from Wilson if he hasn’t improved, so Paton and the new HC will have two more years with the next QB.

 

If things still haven’t improved by the end of the 2026 season then it’s time to completely clean house and fire everyone including Paton. 

I doubt if keeping the fans in purgatory for another 4 years is a good strategy.

[germ-x]

This obviously has nothing to do with coaching, but my earliest memory of the NFL was in 1997 when Denver won the SB.  My earliest memory of the NFL draft was 2001 when Mike Vick went #1. Thanks to the internet, the 1st draft I ever followed, was able to look up some players and mock drafts was 2006. 

I say this because Chad Greenway, Mathias Kiwanuka, and DeMeco Ryans were my 3 favorite players in that draft.

Again, I was young, but on Madden I’d always trade for Ryans to be my MLB, partly because he was cheaper than Greenway, but he’s just a player I’ve always liked and followed.

I’ll be rooting for him for HC for that reason, hahaha. 

[Broncofan]

15 minutes ago, AKRNA said:

I doubt if keeping the fans in purgatory for another 4 years is a good strategy.

Maybe not for Russell Wilson, but for the HC, anything less than 3 years would really send a bad org message.

We gave Hackett less than a year, but he totally earned it.   Same with Vance Joseph at 2, and that was Elway's mistake, not Paton's.  But if we cut bait with the next HC candidate before 3 years, then the label of "impatient owners" has a lot more merit.

It's why this HC hire is absolutely crucial - make 1 disaster decision like Hackett....ok, bad hire, it sucks, but **** happens.    Make 2 back-to-back disasters....then the org really starts to wear the stain 10x more than the HC's in question.

 

Edited December 28, 2022 by Broncofan

[Broncofan]

1 hour ago, paul-mac said:

Harbaugh won’t touch it with a barge pole because he’s going to want full control if he returns to the NFL. I don’t think he would accept working with George Paton or any other GM with a lot of influence. He ran Trent Baalke out of town in SF and it ultimately is a big reason why he ended up walking away himself.

 

FWIW Penner said the HC reports to him directly.    Paton's power has been significantly reduced to draft/roster management by the looks of it.  Obv it may not be enough to sway Harbaugh, but I don't think Paton's power is nearly the same obstacle it was before the season unfolded.   Take it FWIW.

 

[AnAngryAmerican]

1 hour ago, paul-mac said:

Harbaugh won’t touch it with a barge pole because he’s going to want full control if he returns to the NFL. I don’t think he would accept working with George Paton or any other GM with a lot of influence. He ran Trent Baalke out of town in SF and it ultimately is a big reason why he ended up walking away himself.

Payton is a bit intriguing because I think, had LAC missed the playoffs, it’s a slam dunk he ends up there. But now that Staley has taken them into the playoffs, I think he gets a 3rd year. Another likely destination would have been the Dallas Cowboys, but they’ve also had a good year so it’s not likely that they’ll fire their guy McCarthy. Rams could be in play if McVay walks away, but I wouldn’t be shocked if he also waits one more year. There’s a lot of reasons to think Payton night wait another year but if he’s desperate to get back, there might not be that many other teams looking for a HC. Ultimately the reason I don’t see him in Denver is because of our lack of draft capital (also an issue for the Rams). Jon Gruden was the last HC to be traded and it took two 1sts and two 2nds. There’s no way the broncos can afford to make another blockbuster trade like that after the Wilson deal.

I honestly think there’s a > 50% chance it’s Dan Quinn. I know there are some who think he would baulk at the Denver job after we passed him up for Hackett, but let’s be honest here. There are going to be 5 or 6 vacancies max this year. Shane Steichen and DeMeco Ryans are a shoe in to get one of them each. That leaves only maybe three vacancies to be shared between Frank Reich, Kellen Moore, Jerod Mayo, Jonathan Gannon, our guy Ejiro Evero, Jim Harbaugh, Leslie Frazier, Raheem Morris, Ben Johnson, Ken Dorsey and Eric Bieniemy. There are going to be a LOT of disappointed guys who felt this was their year. So I don’t think Quinn is exactly going to be inundated with offers.

Quinn with Schottenheimer as his OC makes too much sense. They work together in Dallas atm and both were in Seattle with Wilson (albeit Quinn was the DC, but I’m sure they have some form of relationship). Schottenheimer got his best years out of him. We would of course love to retain Evero as DC, but if he gets a HC job or goes elsewhere as DC then Quinn could bring in one of his own guys. 

You’re pretty much right as far as I can tell. 

It’s going to be Quinn/Schottenheimer as the Walmarts are going to want to get back to some measure of respectability ASAP - not unlike the late years of Ellis/Elway “win now” to keep the value of the org as high as possible to do right by the Trust - and, as football neophytes, they’ll delude themselves, and spend millions marketing it to the fans, that with a good defense led by mastermind Dan Quinn, an OC that will “fix” Russ and some luck on the injury front and we will be back in contention next year. 

I don’t remember the exact quote but I heard something along those exact lines today in the embarrassing presser where Mr Walmart said something to the effect of the goal is about winning now. 

[AnAngryAmerican]

24 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

FWIW Penner said the HC reports to him directly.    Paton's power has been significantly reduced to draft/roster management by the looks of it.  Obv it may not be enough to sway Harbaugh, but I don't think Paton's power is nearly the same obstacle it was before the season unfolded.   Take it FWIW.

 

Mr Walmart also said that he’s very impatient. I’m sure that will help us attract the best of the best.

[AKRNA]

"This will be a crucial offseason for us across our football operations. That’s coaching, personnel and support staff. We’ve got to get this right." 

That from Penner. IMO right now HC is the least of their worries. In the 1st year of their ownership the franchise went through one of the worst team collapses in NFL history. I'd be wanting to establish critical personnel, office /football staff, position coaches and a solid decision making process. Basically, stop the bleeding and develop a plan forward.

I personally think they're hoping that we at least play respectably during the last two games, that Rosburg isn't a sideline disaster and can come across well in a press conference. Re-sign him for a year, then develop a plan forward and start patching the myriad holes in all three areas.

Right now I'd lock up Evero with a 4 year deal, making him the highest paid DC in the NFL.

[Broncofan]

11 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

Mr Walmart also said that he’s very impatient. I’m sure that will help us attract the best of the best.

Fair - but don’t forget that Harbaugh was willing to go to Minny last offseason - thinking he was going to be given more control than what the Vikes FO had in mind.   Then he returned to Michigan.    @paul-mac’s point about Harbaugh wanting control is very accurate.   It was the deal-breaker with MIN last offseason and why they didn’t offer the position and moved to O’Connell - and then Harbaugh extended with Michigan  (but with buy-out clauses included).  
 

Now it’s not clear if Penner would agree to giving Harbaugh that kind of power - and it’s not gone well when that happens (1 person in full control), either.    And it’s still not clear if Harbaugh would want to leave Michigan for this situation.    So it’s still a long shot (12-1 odds - I checked too, lol).   But the scenario has a lot more plausibility than it did a week ago with the prior power structure with Paton in full control. 

Edited December 28, 2022 by Broncofan

[Broncofan]

10 minutes ago, AKRNA said:

"This will be a crucial offseason for us across our football operations. That’s coaching, personnel and support staff. We’ve got to get this right." 

That from Penner. IMO right now HC is the least of their worries. In the 1st year of their ownership the franchise went through one of the worst team collapses in NFL history. I'd be wanting to establish critical personnel, office /football staff, position coaches and a solid decision making process. Basically, stop the bleeding and develop a plan forward.

I personally think they're hoping that we at least play respectably during the last two games, that Rosburg isn't a sideline disaster and can come across well in a press conference. Re-sign him for a year, then develop a plan forward and start patching the myriad holes in all three areas.

Right now I'd lock up Evero with a 4 year deal, making him the highest paid DC in the NFL.

The Evero idea is a great one - but there’s never been a 1-year HC hire in over 2 decades.    Penner & Paton made it pretty clear Rosburg is just a place-holder.   Remember they offered the interim job to Evero first.