Chargers fire OC Joe Lombardi

[Dr LBC]

2 hours ago, brownie man said:

Staley should be next if they can get Payton 

At what point are people going to grasp that very, very few teams are going to see themselves as "a coach away only" and trade a 1RP-plus for Sean Payton?  New Orleans has no motivation and isn't leveraged in any way to lower their demands.  Just because "Sean Payton wants to unretire... and go to a team with a young franchise QB already in place," doesn't mean that he automatically gets to get that.

[Xenos]

7 hours ago, Broncofan said:

Staley being willing to gamble on 4th mitigated the effect so much last year.   It was the same problem but giving Herbert the extra chance to extend drives, that’s how the Lombardi effect wasn’t noticed by mainstream media & viewers (but hardcore fans noticed as well as metrics analysts).   Now that Staley lost his 4th down nerve it’s plain as day.  

Probably doesn’t help that our OL, WR, and Herbert were injured this year.

[Xenos]

5 hours ago, Dr LBC said:

It was just a poor pairing to begin with.  Staley's brand of run-funnel defense really only works if you have an offense that can consistently churn out high scores - and you've got to be aggressive (if not absolutely STACKED) to do that.  It's honestly not too dissimilar to what the Tampa-2, even though it was by that point believed to be a debunked/exposed scheme, worked so well in Indy while Peyton was there, because the Peyton's offense forced opposing offenses in to being far more one-dimensional, and thus allowed the front 4 for Indy's defense to legitimately pin their ears back and rush the passer on virtually every play.  Staley still needs to fit some better-fitting pieces to his defense for it to really hum, but Lombardi was just too conservative with his play-calling that he was effectively handicapping the strength of Staley's defensive scheme from the get-go.  Conversely - and hopefully this causes some folks to look at how offensive and defensive schemes very much have a reciprocal relationship that affect one-another - Lombardi's/Payton's/Carmichael's scheme very much worked in New Orleans, not just because of Drew Brees, but because regardless of the DC calling the plays, the Saints were a juggernaut against the run for years.  So with team's very often unable to be productive on the ground against them, they were able to use (and often had available to them) a fair amount of clock with their dink-and-dunk approach.

I don't even think the Chargers need to go back to the Air Coryell to "be aggressive," just get a more aggressive-minded WCO practitioner and they'll really dial into Herbert's strengths.  I realize that he's likely likely going to be getting looks from the likes of Bama if the Pats hire BOB to be their OC again, but Joe Brady wouldn't be a bad fit with what the Chargers have to work with on offense at all.

I still prefer an OC from the Shanahan/McVay tree. Lombardi was an odd choice in that regards given that Staley wanted someone in that regards.

Quote

And in reality, the groundwork for this situation was laid before Lombardi was even hired by the Chargers. According to a league source, Lombardi was Staley’s fourth choice for offensive coordinator when he was building his staff in 2021. During that hiring cycle, the Chargers had contact with Mike McDaniel, then the 49ers run game coordinator, Kevin O’Connell, then the Rams offensive coordinator, and Nathaniel Hackett, then the Packers offensive coordinator, the source said. All three have ties to the same coaching tree. McDaniel worked under Kyle Shanahan. O’Connell coached under Sean McVay, who coached with Shanahan in Washington in the early 2010s. Hackett had spent two seasons coaching under Matt LaFleur, who was also on that Washington staff and coached for McVay with the Rams.

 

[Dr LBC]

2 minutes ago, Xenos said:

Probably doesn’t help that our OL, WR, and Herbert were injured this year.

No, but I would wager part of it was even he didn't trust Lombardi to call the right play to get the yardage needed in those 4th down scenarios - particularly when working with a limited pool of available weapons (down the team's top 2 WR's, starting center, on multiple occasions BOTH starting OT's, and the WR3/4 in Guyton who had been a clutch converter in the previous season).  When it was fairly obvious to the opposition that the "go for it" play was either going to be a delayed screen to Ekeler or a shallow crosser or hitch to Everett or Carter, it will kind of sway your willingness to choose to gamble.  Increase the house's odds enough and it simply isn't worth playing, because your statistical edge is practically non-existent.

[Broncofan]

12 minutes ago, Xenos said:

Probably doesn’t help that our OL, WR, and Herbert were injured this year.

If it was just when Herbert was hurting, it would be far more understandable.  But the KC games these decisions happened before Herbert was injured in the 1st game, and frankly the overwhelming case was to go for it.    And even calls like punting instead of going for a FG (I get Dicker doesn't have a big leg, but 52 in perfect conditions vs. losing 22 yards of field position with a miss, that's not a hard call); didn't have to be go-for-it. 

It's easy to espouse naked aggression when the metrics call for it - until you lose games with those calls.   Don't get me wrong, I fully endorse sticking with metrics if it calls for a clear decision - but when you lose games even with the right call, that's when you see coaches lose their nerve.   I wish I could say I thought Staley changing his MO was based on those factors, and not simply losing his nerve.   Time will tell.

Edited January 18, 2023 by Broncofan

[Dr LBC]

11 minutes ago, Xenos said:

I still prefer an OC from the Shanahan/McVay tree. Lombardi was an odd choice in that regards given that Staley wanted someone in that regards.

The issue therein lies that unless they can land Mike LaFleur, you're legit looking at someone who is, at-best, secondhand... possibly even thirdhand, or has little more than a year of familiarity with the scheme because those guys have been such the flavor-du-jour of the league the past 3 years that they've kinda been picked clean.

[HerbertGOAT]

The man produced the most unwatchable "good" offense of the past 50 years. Good riddance. Without Herbert bailing him out off-script, Lombardi would have nothing.

[DigInBoys]

What did Lombardi have to do with the defense giving up 30 points in the 2nd half?

Edited January 18, 2023 by DigInBoys

[Leoric]

3 minutes ago, DigInBoys said:

What did Lombardi have to do with the defense giving up 30 points in the 2nd half?

It’s a team game and a team failure. When the offense can’t get a drive going though it puts a lot more pressure on the defense. Too many 3 and outs. It’s not one game. It’s a season of watching a lukewarm offense that’s paying 40m/year to two receivers, has reception machine Ekeler and alleged franchise QB Justin Herbert. 

[DigInBoys]

6 minutes ago, Leoric said:

It’s a team game and a team failure. When the offense can’t get a drive going though it puts a lot more pressure on the defense. Too many 3 and outs. It’s not one game. It’s a season of watching a lukewarm offense that’s paying 40m/year to two receivers, has reception machine Ekeler and alleged franchise QB Justin Herbert. 

Staley is supposed to be a defensive coach, and on top of that when the team collapses on both ends like that well it falls directly on the head coach.

[y*so*blu]

Scapegoat. Lombardi was a problem but not the problem. The problem is Brandon Staley. The Chargers will be frauds until he is gone. Period.

[bucksavage1]

2 hours ago, y*so*blu said:

Scapegoat. Lombardi was a problem but not the problem. The problem is Brandon Staley. The Chargers will be frauds until he is gone. Period.

Lombardi was bad..worse than Staley which is saying something.  He was gonna get fired even if they beat Jacksonville.  
 

 

[TheKillerNacho]

the guy the trophy is named after?

if so, top-3 coach of all time. the chargers will regret making such a foolish move

[kramxel]

10 hours ago, Dr LBC said:

At what point are people going to grasp that very, very few teams are going to see themselves as "a coach away only" and trade a 1RP-plus for Sean Payton?  New Orleans has no motivation and isn't leveraged in any way to lower their demands.  Just because "Sean Payton wants to unretire... and go to a team with a young franchise QB already in place," doesn't mean that he automatically gets to get that.

I think it would be a terrible choice to waste a 1st round pick, in the current phase the Chargers are in, needing to win now.

I get the Sean Peyton appeal, even though I'm not his greatest fan, but using a 1st rounder to do it, would really hurt this franchise.

If we would fire Staley (not gonna happen, now), I would rather much preffer to go to a young OC, looking for the next step, than to limit the ceiling of this franchise in the immediate future. Chargers are in win now mode, regardless of who is coaching.

[49ersfan]

3 hours ago, TheKillerNacho said:

the guy the trophy is named after?

if so, top-3 coach of all time. the chargers will regret making such a foolish move

I know what you're going for, but he is actually Vince Lombardi's grandson lol